Philippines, religious ceremony, CENOMAR

[Bill&leah 0]

I know this question may have been asked a million times already but i have not found any that involve discussion of the CENOMAR or Certificate of No Marriage.

My fiance is from the Philippines. We want to hold a religious ceremony, but not have it registered with the government, so its more like an engagement party. But it would be nice to be able to wear the wedding dress and do the whole wedding reception thing, as my fiance currently is pregnant and we cant do the back and forth once the k1 comes through because of a newborn child and possibly her still being pregnant.

Many strongly advise to not hold any sort of religious ceremonies and all this because it may be viewed as an actual wedding and get denied, even though there is no marriage certificate.

But the Philippines has the CENOMAR which is a certificate for no marriage.

If we have this ceremony, and dress it up like a wedding so that everyone is happy and we dont have to return to the PI for this after we have a newborn, wouldnt it be ok?

I would think given that she would arrive to the interview with a current CENOMAR to prove that she ISNT married, she could be approved.

Does anyone have actual experience with this, not just be careful and i wouldnt suggest it, but has anyone had this sort of circumstance work out for them?

Thank you!

[BuiQuang 95]

answering one million and one time.

 

no, it not ok.  plenty of example in philippines forum.

 

CENOMAR + "wedding" = denial or visa fraud.  so for one million and one time, do not have any type of "wedding" in the home country when applying for k-1 visa.

 

just because someone get away with it does not mean it work out for them.  being lucky do not mean it work out for them.

[payxibka 10,047]

3 hours ago, Bill&leah said:

I know this question may have been asked a million times already but i have not found any that involve discussion of the CENOMAR or Certificate of No Marriage.

My fiance is from the Philippines. We want to hold a religious ceremony, but not have it registered with the government, so its more like an engagement party. But it would be nice to be able to wear the wedding dress and do the whole wedding reception thing, as my fiance currently is pregnant and we cant do the back and forth once the k1 comes through because of a newborn child and possibly her still being pregnant.

Many strongly advise to not hold any sort of religious ceremonies and all this because it may be viewed as an actual wedding and get denied, even though there is no marriage certificate.

But the Philippines has the CENOMAR which is a certificate for no marriage.

If we have this ceremony, and dress it up like a wedding so that everyone is happy and we dont have to return to the PI for this after we have a newborn, wouldnt it be ok?

I would think given that she would arrive to the interview with a current CENOMAR to prove that she ISNT married, she could be approved.

Does anyone have actual experience with this, not just be careful and i wouldnt suggest it, but has anyone had this sort of circumstance work out for them?

Thank you!

Don't share anything about the party with the Embassy

[Naes 12,205]

6 hours ago, Bill&leah said:

Many strongly advise to not hold any sort of religious ceremonies and all this because it may be viewed as an actual wedding and get denied, even though there is no marriage certificate.

No, don't do it. This is the real legal advice anyone can give you to stop you from fraud.

 

if someone actually says oh we did it and it worked out, that's basically saying oh our fraud worked well.

 

You've already been advised by many. And no I'm not going to say just hide from the embassy.

 

it is not an engagement. I feel sorry reading this for the couples who was really just getting engaged and got denied.

 

 

you're planning a wedding with the dress and everything and expecting your lie to pass. 

[payxibka 10,047]

9 minutes ago, Naes said:

No, don't do it. This is the real legal advice anyone can give you to stop you from fraud.

 

if someone actually says oh we did it and it worked out, that's basically saying oh our fraud worked well.

 

You've already been advised by many. And no I'm not going to say just hide from the embassy.

 

it is not an engagement. I feel sorry reading this for the couples who was really just getting engaged and got denied.

 

 

you're planning a wedding with the dress and everything and expecting your lie to pass. 

Fraud is a big word.  Please explain to me where is the fraud?

[Naes 12,205]

1 minute ago, payxibka said:

Fraud is a big word.  Please explain to me where is the fraud?

Religious wedding is still a wedding.

I ask you Not registering a religious wedding is normal?

not telling about it is omitting information.

 

[Naes 12,205]

3 minutes ago, payxibka said:

Fraud is a big word.  Please explain to me where is the fraud?

They could instead get their visas with a no marriage state, and do their little celebration before going to us to have their marriage certificate.

 

this way again everyone is happy. You have a wedding looking celebration. You're not lying or hiding anything.  

[payxibka 10,047]

Just now, Naes said:

Religious wedding is still a wedding.

I ask you Not registering a religious wedding is normal?

not telling about it is omitting information.

 

The fraud occurs when you do a legally recognized wedding and are in the view of the government married and then petition for a K-1 visa.  Read Phillipines law as to what constitutes a legally recognized marriage in that country (civil or religious ceremony).  Both have as requirement #1.  MARRIAGE LICENSE.

[Naes 12,205]

2 minutes ago, payxibka said:

The fraud occurs when you do a legally recognized wedding and are in the view of the government married and then petition for a K-1 visa.  Read Phillipines law as to what constitutes a legally recognized marriage in that country (civil or religious ceremony).  Both have as requirement #1.  MARRIAGE LICENSE.

You do a religious wedding and you go register it. How many days does it give you to register a wedding? This day gap may keep the legal status yes. 

 

I'd say then ok don't omit information and don't lie to your embassy, As as long as they're ok with it. Who cares right? Everybody should do it  

[payxibka 10,047]

1 minute ago, Naes said:

You do a religious wedding and you go register it. How many days does it give you to register a wedding? This day gap may keep the legal status yes. 

 

I'd say then ok don't omit information and don't lie to your embassy, As as long as they're ok with it. Who cares right? Everybody should do it  

I don't think the OP had any intention of registering it because it is not intended to be a legally recognized.

 

My point here is that everyone freely uses the word FRAUD...  When in fact it isn't.  It may or may not be a good idea what the poster wants to do but it is NOT fraud if they never apply for a marriage license and therefore the activity is NOT recognized as a legal marriage 

[Ontarkie 14,501]

~~Moved to K1 Process and Procedure, from Progress Reports.~~

[Naes 12,205]

2 minutes ago, payxibka said:

I don't think the OP had any intention of registering it because it is not intended to be a legally recognized.

 

My point here is that everyone freely uses the word FRAUD...  When in fact it isn't.  It may or may not be a good idea what the poster wants to do but it is NOT fraud if they never apply for a marriage license and therefore the activity is NOT recognized as a legal marriage 

Because for example if a Muslim marries under sharia law you have to register in 30 days in Philippines and church probably has a rule this way too.

 

there are rules, regulations and laws to religious marriages too. Overall the world.

 

this for example a Muslim one.

https://psa.gov.ph/article/rules-and-regulations-governing-registration-acts-and-events-concerning-civil-status-muslim

 

 

And no I'm not using the word fraud freely. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Naes

[payxibka 10,047]

1 minute ago, Naes said:

Because for example if a Muslim marries under sharia law you have to register in 30 days in Philippines and church probably has a rule this way too.

 

there are rules, regulations and laws to religious marriages too. Overall the world.

 

this for example a Muslim one.

https://psa.gov.ph/article/rules-and-regulations-governing-registration-acts-and-events-concerning-civil-status-muslim

 

 

 

Don't introduce facts not in evidence and confuse things.  No where did the OP say anything about an Islamic wedding under sharia law

[Naes 12,205]

3 minutes ago, payxibka said:

Don't introduce facts not in evidence and confuse things.  No where did the OP say anything about an Islamic wedding under sharia law

Ok let's find another type of religious wedding.. 

 

please go to church wedding requirements where it says

 

Note: A Catholic religious ceremony may be performed even without a civil ceremony and the marriage will still be considered legal in the Philippines. Other non-Catholic churches may require documents and/or seminars not specified below. To be sure, inquire with the church in which you plan to be married. The process below describes the general procedures for arranging a Catholic wedding in the Philippines.

 

https://ph.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/getting-married/

 

im not trying to confuse anyone I'm talking about the legality of religious weddings.

 

the religion doesn't matter the country's law matters

Edited December 5, 2017 by Naes

[Ontarkie 14,501]

It's not Fraud to have a fake wedding. The issue comes to how to keep it a secret these days. We have seen it so many times on this website alone ppl getting denied because of their fake wedding. 

You definitely need to make sure that getting married in a Church by a Priest is not going be a legal wedding. I say this because some countries like Canada for example. If you have any form of ceremony by someone who is legally allowed to perform a wedding it is a legal marriage regardless if they got a marriage license.  

 

So I ask you this-

How do you intend to invite ppl? Wedding invitation? Word of mouth? 

Will they be thinking they are going to a wedding?

Are you 150% certain not a single one of them will post about going to So and So's wedding? 

Will you start calling each other hubby or wife? You would be surprised how many will use those names in chats then turn those same chats in for the interview. 

Can you be certain not a single person going to your wedding will not post pictures on FB, IG, Snapchat and all the other sites they have out there? 

Can you be certain that the neighbours who aren't invited will keep their mouth shut and not rat you out? (yes their are bitter ppl out there who will)