Congressman Gutierrez will not seek re-election: Politico

[smilesammich 10,727]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

I guess that is the alternative explanation...

 

Either he sees something imaginary (may want to see a doctor), or he just doesn't understand the concept.

 

He can pick one.

trump throws the phrase 'open borders' around all the time and clearly doesn't know what it means so, maybe it's just a symptom of maga.

[Dashinka 24,793]

3 hours ago, bcking said:

None of that is supporting an open border. I've bolded as many of the topics I noticed that are involving immigration. None of it is about an open border. He has supported things like the DREAM act, and stopping deportation of family members. None of that means he wants no border and wants people to freely come and go as they please without any checks.

 

Enjoying your pet unicorn with your best friend "Mr Fiddlesticks"?

I think it may have something to do with this which is from his own website.  He says people should come to this country with a visa which I believe is already in place for most countries (discounting the VWP countries).  So what does he really want in ways of immigration reform?  Should every country be a VWP country, should visas be given out like candy?  No matter what changes in regard to legal immigration you will always have those attempting to circumvent the system.  If we change the second item that I bolded, how does that secure the border?  If the current illegal immigrants without criminal records are allowed to get into the queue won’t that be an incentive for others to “jump the border” and try and get into the same queue?

 

My Approach

We need a 21st century immigration system to regulate a 21st century labor force.  We need to have a system of legal immigration that employers and immigrants actually use so that we have control over who comes and who is here.  We ought to have an immigration system that honors families and keeps them together.  People should come to this country with a visa, not a smuggler, and we should have a system that allows them to do so within reasonable limits tied to our economic and societal needs and that is adjusted over time.  We don't have that now.

 

Having a functioning legal immigration system will make a secure border.  If the vast majority of those coming to our country have a legitimate, legal, orderly way to do so, they will use it.  This would make the human-smuggling business much less profitable, make patrolling the border easier because more traffic is coming through ports of entry and spreads scarce government resources more efficiently across the long international borders we have.  A physical fence can lead us to believe that the border is secure.The same goes for spending more money on border patrol agents from the Department of Homeland Security, which is by far our largest law enforcement agency.  What will really give us better security is a functioning legal immigration system where people go through it and not around it.  Then drug smugglers, criminals, terrorists, and human smugglers will stand out, not blend in; allowing other aspects of border security spending to work better to keep us safe.

There is an estimated 11.5 million undocumented people living, working and raising families in the United States.  We need to get those with no criminal records into the system, on the books, and the ability to earn legal status. It is in our national interest to reestablish the rule of law and make sure that everyone -- employers, citizens, immigrants, and law enforcement -- are playing by a clear set of rules that are evenly enforced.  That is what comprehensive immigration reform is all about.

 

https://gutierrez.house.gov/taxonomy/term/47

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I think it may have something to do with this which is from his own website.  He says people should come to this country with a visa which I believe is already in place for most countries (discounting the VWP countries).  So what does he really want in ways of immigration reform?  Should every country be a VWP country, should visas be given out like candy?  No matter what changes in regard to legal immigration you will always have those attempting to circumvent the system.  If we change the second item that I bolded, how does that secure the border?  If the current illegal immigrants without criminal records are allowed to get into the queue won’t that be an incentive for others to “jump the border” and try and get into the same queue?

 

My Approach

We need a 21st century immigration system to regulate a 21st century labor force.  We need to have a system of legal immigration that employers and immigrants actually use so that we have control over who comes and who is here.  We ought to have an immigration system that honors families and keeps them together.  People should come to this country with a visa, not a smuggler, and we should have a system that allows them to do so within reasonable limits tied to our economic and societal needs and that is adjusted over time.  We don't have that now.

 

Having a functioning legal immigration system will make a secure border.  If the vast majority of those coming to our country have a legitimate, legal, orderly way to do so, they will use it.  This would make the human-smuggling business much less profitable, make patrolling the border easier because more traffic is coming through ports of entry and spreads scarce government resources more efficiently across the long international borders we have.  A physical fence can lead us to believe that the border is secure.The same goes for spending more money on border patrol agents from the Department of Homeland Security, which is by far our largest law enforcement agency.  What will really give us better security is a functioning legal immigration system where people go through it and not around it.  Then drug smugglers, criminals, terrorists, and human smugglers will stand out, not blend in; allowing other aspects of border security spending to work better to keep us safe.

There is an estimated 11.5 million undocumented people living, working and raising families in the United States.  We need to get those with no criminal records into the system, on the books, and the ability to earn legal status. It is in our national interest to reestablish the rule of law and make sure that everyone -- employers, citizens, immigrants, and law enforcement -- are playing by a clear set of rules that are evenly enforced.  That is what comprehensive immigration reform is all about.

 

https://gutierrez.house.gov/taxonomy/term/47

open borders do not require visas.

no need for a path to legal status if there are open borders.

 

[Dashinka 24,793]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

open borders do not require visas.

no need for a path to legal status if there are open borders.

 

So explain to me how his approach is different than what is currently in place, and how his plan will protect the border?  Don’t the majority of people coming to the US already need visas for their specific purpose in coming to the US?  Isn’t there a process in place for these folks to obtain their desired visa?  And yet we still see people taking the illegal route.  This is what I love about politicians claiming they are for immigration reform, they never explain their full position so it is left to us to read between the lines.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

So explain to me how his approach is different than what is currently in place, and how his plan will protect the border?  Don’t the majority of people coming to the US already need visas for their specific purpose in coming to the US?  Isn’t there a process in place for these folks to obtain their desired visa?  And yet we still see people taking the illegal route.  This is what I love about politicians claiming they are for immigration reform, they never explain their full position so it is left to us to read between the lines.

before i explain all of this to you, you need to explain where gutierrez details his open border platform.

 

(and his position is clearly right there, you just posted it )

[Dashinka 24,793]

Just now, smilesammich said:

before i explain all of this to you, you need to explain where gutierrez details his open border platform.

 

(and his position is clearly right there, you just posted it )

That is inference based on the plan he put forth.  No politician is stupid enough (I hope) to actually verbalize they are for open borders, but as I stated above, they leave a lot open to interpretation.

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

That is inference based on the plan he put forth.  No politician is stupid enough (I hope) to actually verbalize they are for open borders, but as I stated above, they leave a lot open to interpretation.

He actually states quite clearly that he DOESN'T want open borders. He really isn't leaving anything open to interpretation. You bolded it for us, so thanks. 

 

People should come to this country with a visa, not a smuggler, and we should have a system that allows them to do so within reasonable limits tied to our economic and societal needs and that is adjusted over time.

 

He is pretty darn clear that he believes people should have visas, and that we should have a border. 

[Dashinka 24,793]

Just now, bcking said:

He actually states quite clearly that he DOESN'T want open borders. He really isn't leaving anything open to interpretation. You bolded it for us, so thanks. 

 

People should come to this country with a visa, not a smuggler, and we should have a system that allows them to do so within reasonable limits tied to our economic and societal needs and that is adjusted over time.

 

He is pretty darn clear that he believes people should have visas, and that we should have a border. 

So how is this different than what is in place today?  This is why I said his support for “immigration reform” seems to be smoke and mirrors leading one to wonder what he really means.

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

That is inference based on the plan he put forth.  No politician is stupid enough (I hope) to actually verbalize they are for open borders, but as I stated above, they leave a lot open to interpretation.

and incorrect inference. i've not seen anything to suggest that guteirrez is working toward open borders.

 

no politician stupid enough? open borders exist. here's some info.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_border

 

 

[Dashinka 24,793]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

and incorrect inference. i've not seen anything to suggest that guteirrez is working toward open borders.

 

no politician stupid enough? open borders exist. here's some info.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_border

 

 

So no answer to the question as to how his approach is superior to the visa system we have today?

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

So no answer to the question as to how his approach is superior to the visa system we have today?

It would be a great question to ask him. Neither one of us represent him. I also haven't read any more about his plan other than what you have graciously linked here.

 

Everything that is stated seems that he does not support an open border. You seemed to claim that he does. Now you are back peddling and saying it is an "inference" just because you are unclear of his message. That isn't on us, that's on you. If you are that unclear, and want to find out more, you should seek out the information. The proper path isn't to therefore just assume that he is for something you don't like.

 

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

So no answer to the question as to how his approach is superior to the visa system we have today?

well, if you want me to quote your own quote..

 

Quote

We need a 21st century immigration system to regulate a 21st century labor force.  We need to have a system of legal immigration that employers and immigrants actually use so that we have control over who comes and who is here.  We ought to have an immigration system that honors families and keeps them together.  People should come to this country with a visa, not a smuggler, and we should have a system that allows them to do so within reasonable limits tied to our economic and societal needs and that is adjusted over time.  We don't have that now.

 

Having a functioning legal immigration system will make a secure border.  If the vast majority of those coming to our country have a legitimate, legal, orderly way to do so, they will use it.  This would make the human-smuggling business much less profitable, make patrolling the border easier because more traffic is coming through ports of entry and spreads scarce government resources more efficiently across the long international borders we have.  A physical fence can lead us to believe that the border is secure.The same goes for spending more money on border patrol agents from the Department of Homeland Security, which is by far our largest law enforcement agency.  What will really give us better security is a functioning legal immigration system where people go through it and not around it.  Then drug smugglers, criminals, terrorists, and human smugglers will stand out, not blend in; allowing other aspects of border security spending to work better to keep us safe.

There is an estimated 11.5 million undocumented people living, working and raising families in the United States.  We need to get those with no criminal records into the system, on the books, and the ability to earn legal status. It is in our national interest to reestablish the rule of law and make sure that everyone -- employers, citizens, immigrants, and law enforcement -- are playing by a clear set of rules that are evenly enforced.  That is what comprehensive immigration reform is all about.

i know you've been here long enough to realize that it isn't just as simple as -get a visa, come to america, stay and build a life. 

 

Quote

We can tell people to wait their turn in line, but, for example, for a Mexican (or a Guatemalan, a Filipino, a Pole, or folks from many other countries) who does not have a college degree and has no close relatives who are U.S. citizens or green card-holders, there is almost certainly no line for them to wait in: without reform to the legal system, they will not be able to migrate “the legal way” to the U.S., not if they wait ten years, not if they wait fifty years. But if they manage to come unlawfully—and historically we have not made it so difficult to do so, though our borders are much more secure now than they have ever been—they will almost certainly find work—because even in a time of high unemployment, there are certain jobs that most Americans have not proven willing to do. For individuals living in poverty, desperate to support their families, that has been an attractive option. Everyone would prefer to pay a reasonable fee and be granted a visa, but that has not been an option for most of those presently here unlawfully. That, in short, is how we got into this mess, and why so many immigrants—most of them family-oriented people—have ended up undocumented in the shadows of our society.

 

http://g92.org/find-answers/process/

[Dashinka 24,793]

11 minutes ago, bcking said:

It would be a great question to ask him. Neither one of us represent him. I also haven't read any more about his plan other than what you have graciously linked here.

 

Everything that is stated seems that he does not support an open border. You seemed to claim that he does. Now you are back peddling and saying it is an "inference" just because you are unclear of his message. That isn't on us, that's on you. If you are that unclear, and want to find out more, you should seek out the information. The proper path isn't to therefore just assume that he is for something you don't like.

 

I never claimed it to be anything other than a inference.  We often hear politicians speak about “immigration reform” and we know that politicians are famous for double speak.  That being said, I can certainly infer his reference to “immigration reform”is code for open borders.  Personally, I do not trust any politician left right or center, and believe they will say or do anything to get elected to whatever office they are seeking.  It may be cynical, but there is a reason for that cynicism toward politicos, and the inside the beltway types.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[Dashinka 24,793]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

well, if you want me to quote your own quote..

 

i know you've been here long enough to realize that it isn't just as simple as -get a visa, come to america, stay and build a life. 

 

 

http://g92.org/find-answers/process/

I do know that, but Gutierrez doesn’t give us any details as to how he is going to reform the current visa process.  Therefore we are left to our own imaginations.  You believe your view and I believe mine.  Of course there are a lot of issues with our current system, but what is to be done?  Gutierrez nor the link you provided doesn’t say.  

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

I do know that, but Gutierrez doesn’t give us any details as to how he is going to reform the current visa process.  Therefore we are left to our own imaginations.  You believe your view and I believe mine.  Of course there are a lot of issues with our current system, but what is to be done?  Gutierrez nor the link you provided doesn’t say.  

actually he does, saying there needs to be more obtainable avenues of legal immigration is not at all vague - especially when you know the limits of the current system. i seriously don't know of any politician that uses their website to explicitly detail policy, unless you consider 'big beautiful wall' to be explicit detailing of policy.