Becoming a UK-US Citizen

[CharlieTanger 76]

This may be a pretty stupid question on an American immigration forum, but I thought I'd give it a shot!

 

My spouse and I reside in the United States and will do so into the future. My spouse will obtain US Citizenship in a couple year's time. However, I was wondering if I, as the American spouse, would ever be able to have duel US-UK citizenship as well? Can an American spouse obtain UK citizenship through the marriage of the UK natural citizen? Or are you required to reside in the UK to be able to apply? 

 

Any information or knowledge on this topic would be helpful.

[Boiler 45,468]

You will need both, when are you looking to move to the UK?, be aware the requirements are more stringent.

[Stuart and Katie 13]

You would need to be a UK resident for some time in order to qualify as a US spouse.

[yuna628 9,671]

1 hour ago, CharlieTanger said:

This may be a pretty stupid question on an American immigration forum, but I thought I'd give it a shot!

 

My spouse and I reside in the United States and will do so into the future. My spouse will obtain US Citizenship in a couple year's time. However, I was wondering if I, as the American spouse, would ever be able to have duel US-UK citizenship as well? Can an American spouse obtain UK citizenship through the marriage of the UK natural citizen? Or are you required to reside in the UK to be able to apply? 

 

Any information or knowledge on this topic would be helpful.

It would take about 5+ years of legally living in the UK to apply to be a citizen. Yes you can be a dual citizen, with no problems, provided you pass their complex, expensive, multi-layer-multi-years worth of requirements.

[CharlieTanger 76]

Thanks all! Doesn’t look like it’s worth it haha! 

 

I wonder why the UK is more strict than the US? 

[Boiler 45,468]

21 minutes ago, CharlieTanger said:

Thanks all! Doesn’t look like it’s worth it haha! 

 

I wonder why the UK is more strict than the US? 

Not significantly different.

[bcking 3,157]

Others can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe when they are saying "more strict" I think they are mostly referring to the financial requirements, which are higher for the UK.

 

The actual process though, background checks etc... aren't very different. 

 

When my wife and I were deciding which direction to go (her to USA, me to UK), before the oil crash (which decided for us), what we found seemed like the actual time it takes to apply is much quicker (Majority are processed in around 3-4 months, versus I believe right now an IR-1 is like 9-12 months?). I also believe it is easier to travel to the UK and then apply to "adjust" status, even while you are married the whole time. I mean even right now I can travel to the UK and just enter through the electronic passport checks without speaking to anyone or indicating why I'm visiting. Once I'm there, I could apply to adjust my "visitation" to "permanent status" because of my wife.

 

The only tricky thing is the financial responsibility, which as I said is higher. I forget what it is and I believe they recently (past couple of years) increased it. That may or may not be an issue for you. For us it would just mean my wife would need a job in her field prior to me applying, since pretty much any job in our field would meet the requirements.

Edited December 1, 2017 by bcking

[yuna628 9,671]

11 minutes ago, bcking said:

Others can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe when they are saying "more strict" I think they are mostly referring to the financial requirements, which are higher for the UK.

 

The actual process though, background checks etc... aren't very different. 

 

When my wife and I were deciding which direction to go (her to USA, me to UK), before the oil crash (which decided for us), what we found seemed like the actual time it takes to apply is much quicker (Majority are processed in around 3-4 months, versus I believe right now an IR-1 is like 9-12 months?). I also believe it is easier to travel to the UK and then apply to "adjust" status, even while you are married the whole time. I mean even right now I can travel to the UK and just enter through the electronic passport checks without speaking to anyone or indicating why I'm visiting. Once I'm there, I could apply to adjust my "visitation" to "permanent status" because of my wife.

 

The only tricky thing is the financial responsibility, which as I said is higher. I forget what it is and I believe they recently (past couple of years) increased it. That may or may not be an issue for you. For us it would just mean my wife would need a job in her field prior to me applying, since pretty much any job in our field would meet the requirements.

Can you explain exactly how you would be able to ''adjust your status'' while visiting in the UK as a non-EEA? I'm unaware of that one. As far as I'm aware all entry points to bring a spouse into the UK beyond a visit, involves the non-EEA spouse to be outside of the UK to apply. This is one of the sticking points for the thousands rejected by the HO and forced to make hard choices of what to do.

 

And yes it can be quicker to process, provided you pay the high fees... but there is no guarantee of success either or that it will even go fast with the fee. One of my husband's coworkers has a daughter married to a British soldier. He would like to bring her to the UK, since he is still in the military. They decided to go it without a lawyer, and do everything they thought by the book and paid the higher fees. After many more months of waiting than they were told (they could have paid the cheaper fee because there was no movement at all), their application was rejected due to what looks like a clerical error on the HO's part, but of course they will blame the couple. They are at a loss now, and I've referred them over to an attorney.  It is only after you get past that 2.5yr initial clearance phase, can you ''adjust'' to the ILR phase... and continue on from there many years in the future provided you can continue to jump through the required hoops. But to my knowledge you cannot adjust from a visiting phase into an ICP or ILR as a non-EEA without some sort of exception. There is no VWP type grey area.. as it is in the US. You can adjust while there on another visa, as I've seen in cases of those who were working as teachers.. or if you have exemptions if there are children involved, but whether you are successful is another matter. As one Scotsman was recently told, the HO saw no reason why they just couldn't go ####### off to Canada and that they could just Skype with the kids or another case where a family with children were directly lied to and told they could not apply at all. 

 

How is it you can also enter the UK without indication why you are visiting - are you also a EU national? It's common practice for them to interview non-EEA's seeking to visit... and they have also been known to toss out spouses at the border too. Of course, if you are marrying a Prince, you certainly will have all the perks than us regular peasants. Over the holiday season 15,000 children will be without one of their parents due to the law.

 

The strictness was always in reference to the fact that over half of the populace of the UK, are unable to bring their foreign spouses. It disproportionately affects women, certain employment sectors, the self-employed, and certain regions of the UK in favor of others. It treats many Bits as second class citizens in their own country and ultimately treats many couples in a dehumanizing manner. This is not to mention the disturbing cases we see of activities by officers rejecting applications not on their merits.. but because of quotas. We have a massive immigration issue in the US, and are not perfect, but at least as far as me and my husband sees it, we do offer opportunities even when the process can be frustrating, and we offer a fair shot, even when something goes amiss. I would also point out that certain types of paperwork the HO may request can be extremely difficult hurdle to overcome, and some believe it to be on purpose.

 

 OP the rules are here. My suggestion is to always get the US side of things complete before even tackling the UK side, that is if you can afford it. Dual citizenship though is no problem. http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Spouse_Immigration-UK

[bcking 3,157]

42 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Can you explain exactly how you would be able to ''adjust your status'' while visiting in the UK as a non-EEA? I'm unaware of that one. As far as I'm aware all entry points to bring a spouse into the UK beyond a visit, involves the non-EEA spouse to be outside of the UK to apply. This is one of the sticking points for the thousands rejected by the HO and forced to make hard choices of what to do.

 

And yes it can be quicker to process, provided you pay the high fees... but there is no guarantee of success either or that it will even go fast with the fee. One of my husband's coworkers has a daughter married to a British soldier. He would like to bring her to the UK, since he is still in the military. They decided to go it without a lawyer, and do everything they thought by the book and paid the higher fees. After many more months of waiting than they were told (they could have paid the cheaper fee because there was no movement at all), their application was rejected due to what looks like a clerical error on the HO's part, but of course they will blame the couple. They are at a loss now, and I've referred them over to an attorney.  It is only after you get past that 2.5yr initial clearance phase, can you ''adjust'' to the ILR phase... and continue on from there many years in the future provided you can continue to jump through the required hoops. But to my knowledge you cannot adjust from a visiting phase into an ICP or ILR as a non-EEA without some sort of exception. There is no VWP type grey area.. as it is in the US. You can adjust while there on another visa, as I've seen in cases of those who were working as teachers.. or if you have exemptions if there are children involved, but whether you are successful is another matter. As one Scotsman was recently told, the HO saw no reason why they just couldn't go ####### off to Canada and that they could just Skype with the kids or another case where a family with children were directly lied to and told they could not apply at all. 

 

How is it you can also enter the UK without indication why you are visiting - are you also a EU national? It's common practice for them to interview non-EEA's seeking to visit... and they have also been known to toss out spouses at the border too. Of course, if you are marrying a Prince, you certainly will have all the perks than us regular peasants. Over the holiday season 15,000 children will be without one of their parents due to the law.

 

The strictness was always in reference to the fact that over half of the populace of the UK, are unable to bring their foreign spouses. It disproportionately affects women, certain employment sectors, the self-employed, and certain regions of the UK in favor of others. It treats many Bits as second class citizens in their own country and ultimately treats many couples in a dehumanizing manner. This is not to mention the disturbing cases we see of activities by officers rejecting applications not on their merits.. but because of quotas. We have a massive immigration issue in the US, and are not perfect, but at least as far as me and my husband sees it, we do offer opportunities even when the process can be frustrating, and we offer a fair shot, even when something goes amiss. I would also point out that certain types of paperwork the HO may request can be extremely difficult hurdle to overcome, and some believe it to be on purpose.

 

 OP the rules are here. My suggestion is to always get the US side of things complete before even tackling the UK side, that is if you can afford it. Dual citizenship though is no problem. http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Spouse_Immigration-UK

I was going off the gov.uk resources, but you are right when I looked again at the bottom they have "exceptions" (which they don't reference at the beginning under switching). It says if you entered on a visitor you would have to leave. So I was incorrect in that.

 

In both cases (UK -> US and US -> UK) I'm sure there are personal examples of where the process has been long and extended. They have a resource tool to give you an expected time frame and they report >80% receive their answer within 120 days. I don't believe the US is quite so transparent, but based on experiences here it seems like it is about twice that.

 

I enter the UK as a "Registered Traveler" (RT). I have visited enough times that I could apply (I think it was like 5 times in a year or something). The visits had to be all for business/pleasure, and I only ever visit the UK to see my wife and/or her family. One I was approved (took about a month I think), I just had to go through regular immigration one more time, explain to them why I visit frequently, and then they approved the card. That allows me to use the electronic passport checks every time I enter. I guess it just automatically assumes I am coming as a visitor. Since getting it I have not maintained the frequency of the visits (since my wife lives with me) but every year I can just renew without meeting the initial requirements again. I've entered the UK as a fiance and as a spouse using that. I even entered for our wedding using the electronic machines (though I had a specific marriage visa in my passport to allow me to get married in the UK on that visit, I didn't show it to anyone). While married I visited 4 times before she moved here and never once had anyone stop me or ask me anything. The one single time my wife tried to come here she was held in secondary for over an hour and was harassed. So in our personal experiences UK has been 1,000 times more friendly and easy to navigate. The process of getting the marriage visa in the UK (for me to get married in the UK, but not settle permanently after the wedding) was also incredibly painless and easy.

 

What are the reasons given for why those people are unable to bring their foreign spouses? Other than financial reasons? The requirements honestly don't seem that difficult, except for needing to make a certain amount of money. Of course I admit I haven't gone through the process yet, but it is certainly something we are considering in the future (She would prefer any future children to go to school in the UK). We wouldn't have a problem with the financial requirements, so what other roadblocks would we see? At face value, it seems far less complicated.

 

EDIT:

 

Registered Traveler requirement is 4 times in 24 months (when you originally apply). I haven't needed to meet that requirement each time I renew every year.

Edited December 1, 2017 by bcking

[Boiler 45,468]

Friend of mine brought his wife over from India, took a month.

 

And that was the regular process. Could have been quicker

 

[yuna628 9,671]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:13 PM, bcking said:

I was going off the gov.uk resources, but you are right when I looked again at the bottom they have "exceptions" (which they don't reference at the beginning under switching). It says if you entered on a visitor you would have to leave. So I was incorrect in that.

 

In both cases (UK -> US and US -> UK) I'm sure there are personal examples of where the process has been long and extended. They have a resource tool to give you an expected time frame and they report >80% receive their answer within 120 days. I don't believe the US is quite so transparent, but based on experiences here it seems like it is about twice that.

 

I enter the UK as a "Registered Traveler" (RT). I have visited enough times that I could apply (I think it was like 5 times in a year or something). The visits had to be all for business/pleasure, and I only ever visit the UK to see my wife and/or her family. One I was approved (took about a month I think), I just had to go through regular immigration one more time, explain to them why I visit frequently, and then they approved the card. That allows me to use the electronic passport checks every time I enter. I guess it just automatically assumes I am coming as a visitor. Since getting it I have not maintained the frequency of the visits (since my wife lives with me) but every year I can just renew without meeting the initial requirements again. I've entered the UK as a fiance and as a spouse using that. I even entered for our wedding using the electronic machines (though I had a specific marriage visa in my passport to allow me to get married in the UK on that visit, I didn't show it to anyone). While married I visited 4 times before she moved here and never once had anyone stop me or ask me anything. The one single time my wife tried to come here she was held in secondary for over an hour and was harassed. So in our personal experiences UK has been 1,000 times more friendly and easy to navigate. The process of getting the marriage visa in the UK (for me to get married in the UK, but not settle permanently after the wedding) was also incredibly painless and easy.

 

What are the reasons given for why those people are unable to bring their foreign spouses? Other than financial reasons? The requirements honestly don't seem that difficult, except for needing to make a certain amount of money. Of course I admit I haven't gone through the process yet, but it is certainly something we are considering in the future (She would prefer any future children to go to school in the UK). We wouldn't have a problem with the financial requirements, so what other roadblocks would we see? At face value, it seems far less complicated.

 

EDIT:

 

Registered Traveler requirement is 4 times in 24 months (when you originally apply). I haven't needed to meet that requirement each time I renew every year.

Sorry for the late reply.. I've been up since around 2am this morning with a very sick husband that has continued for most of the day.. and I fear I'll be next.. (flu is vicious this year). I'll have to be not as detailed here and perhaps can type longer later. I've always been one that feels transparency should be better for both the US and the UK. The nature of the complexity that the UK requires in their applications vs the US (imho) makes it more difficult. Some documents they have been known to ask for may prove to be virtually impossible. Roughly half of those couples are unable to for financial reasons. If self-employed, even if one should make the threshold, this is discounted. It's surprising how even many of those with stable jobs, a place to live etc still have no means to show the government that they can care for their spouses, when many could certainly live comfortably with those spouses. Due to standard of living being vastly different in regions of the UK - some are completely economically shut out from reaching such a threshold, and they still live quite comfortably below that threshold. The US provides cosponsors and joint sponsors, whereas the UK does not. They do not consider situations where the person lives quite comfortably living expense wise even if they are below the threshold. I am not sure if the rules have changed recently, but economic/work restrictions were placed on the immigrant spouse if they were successful, far greater than it is here. A spouse can work immediately here for instance when granted. A K1 can work fairly soon within reason if they AOS quickly. If the immigrant spouse for instance is the one with greater financials, these funds are also not considered in the UK. There are of course many other reasons - one of them as I've mentioned appears to be a quota and a high rate of rejections due to errors. Some couples are very sure they have fulfilled every requirement and are still rejected. One recent example was a couple who was rejected and wrote a blog about it for the press: he and his lawyers found no cause as to why they were rejected and concluded it was in error and cited rules that did not apply. It would take over 1 year to appeal with no guarantee at great expense. Mysteriously a few days after going public, the HO reversed their decision... lucky. Some couples are told their relationships are not bona fide, despite being together for 10-20 years. There is no real guidance, no opportunity to correct any error if made. I could provide a lot of links if you'd like about various stories and advocacy groups trying to help such couples

 

To sum up: my husband had a good job in the UK, a good deal of savings, a car, a place for us to live comfortably, but that was still not enough. There were no economic opportunities in his community to increase his financial outlook; cosponsors wouldn't be considered. I love his home, we miss it terribly, we worry for his parents he left behind... but we have found the US process straightforward even with all the annoyance it came with.. and he's enjoying the freedom and economic success too.

 

Did not know about the RT program. That's cool. I'm familiar with harassment when traveling to the UK. It happens in both countries, but in particular to women in the UK. I was informed that by an officer directly and witnessed appalling behavior. For those who have no financial issues, less problems may arise, but I'd go into it 10 times more prepared than I ever would be for the US.

[Wuozopo 4,293]

Interesting Yuna. I hadn't thought it seemed that difficult and we could easily go back if we wanted to. But we're not at all interested, so haven't read anything about specific stories of seemingly qualified people getting denied.

 

My wife never got hassled at Heathrow or Gatwick. The only questions ever asked were "What is the purpose of your trip? How long are you staying?" Stamp. Worst experience was when every piece of luggage except one was picked up from the carousel and hers had not come through. Baggage claim was empty. She waited and waited and waited, watching that one piece come round a million times. Then finally hers magically appeared just as she was about to burst into tears. 

[bcking 3,157]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Sorry for the late reply.. I've been up since around 2am this morning with a very sick husband that has continued for most of the day.. and I fear I'll be next.. (flu is vicious this year). I'll have to be not as detailed here and perhaps can type longer later. I've always been one that feels transparency should be better for both the US and the UK. The nature of the complexity that the UK requires in their applications vs the US (imho) makes it more difficult. Some documents they have been known to ask for may prove to be virtually impossible. Roughly half of those couples are unable to for financial reasons. If self-employed, even if one should make the threshold, this is discounted. It's surprising how even many of those with stable jobs, a place to live etc still have no means to show the government that they can care for their spouses, when many could certainly live comfortably with those spouses. Due to standard of living being vastly different in regions of the UK - some are completely economically shut out from reaching such a threshold, and they still live quite comfortably below that threshold. The US provides cosponsors and joint sponsors, whereas the UK does not. They do not consider situations where the person lives quite comfortably living expense wise even if they are below the threshold. I am not sure if the rules have changed recently, but economic/work restrictions were placed on the immigrant spouse if they were successful, far greater than it is here. A spouse can work immediately here for instance when granted. A K1 can work fairly soon within reason if they AOS quickly. If the immigrant spouse for instance is the one with greater financials, these funds are also not considered in the UK. There are of course many other reasons - one of them as I've mentioned appears to be a quota and a high rate of rejections due to errors. Some couples are very sure they have fulfilled every requirement and are still rejected. One recent example was a couple who was rejected and wrote a blog about it for the press: he and his lawyers found no cause as to why they were rejected and concluded it was in error and cited rules that did not apply. It would take over 1 year to appeal with no guarantee at great expense. Mysteriously a few days after going public, the HO reversed their decision... lucky. Some couples are told their relationships are not bona fide, despite being together for 10-20 years. There is no real guidance, no opportunity to correct any error if made. I could provide a lot of links if you'd like about various stories and advocacy groups trying to help such couples

 

To sum up: my husband had a good job in the UK, a good deal of savings, a car, a place for us to live comfortably, but that was still not enough. There were no economic opportunities in his community to increase his financial outlook; cosponsors wouldn't be considered. I love his home, we miss it terribly, we worry for his parents he left behind... but we have found the US process straightforward even with all the annoyance it came with.. and he's enjoying the freedom and economic success too.

 

Did not know about the RT program. That's cool. I'm familiar with harassment when traveling to the UK. It happens in both countries, but in particular to women in the UK. I was informed that by an officer directly and witnessed appalling behavior. For those who have no financial issues, less problems may arise, but I'd go into it 10 times more prepared than I ever would be for the US.

Interesting information to keep in mind for the future.

 

Our expectations are it will be quite a breeze compared to the USA, but we also know we would be going back meeting the financial requirements quite comfortably. My wife has several British friends who have international spouses and they were all appalled at how long it took her to come here, compared to their experience bringing people to the UK. Again though, they all met the financial requirement.

 

The one issue for us in the future is whether she needs to be making the salary for a period of time before it qualifies. Now that she lives here obviously we wouldn't want to separate again. She could get a job in the UK that makes more than enough, but would she need to have the job for a set period of time? If so, we would likely just go the savings route (I think it's like 60,000 pounds or something, I don't remember).

 

The only reason we brought her to the USA was because of the oil crash and the simultaneous takeover of her British company. Her job security was in doubt, while as a physician I can always have a job. Though with the way the UK is going they are going to have an even bigger shortage of doctors in the future, so it may also not be difficult for me to enter on my own merits either.

 

Either way we aren't worried going that way in the future. We've only had positive experiences from people we know. The year long process to come here was unheard of in her friend circle, which is heavily international by virtue of her career.

[Florida2017 7]

On 11/28/2017 at 7:14 PM, CharlieTanger said:

This may be a pretty stupid question on an American immigration forum, but I thought I'd give it a shot!

 

My spouse and I reside in the United States and will do so into the future. My spouse will obtain US Citizenship in a couple year's time. However, I was wondering if I, as the American spouse, would ever be able to have duel US-UK citizenship as well? Can an American spouse obtain UK citizenship through the marriage of the UK natural citizen? Or are you required to reside in the UK to be able to apply? 

 

Any information or knowledge on this topic would be helpful.

Dual qualified US-UK lawyer here. A lengthy period of residence is required.

[JFH 12,190]

Yes, a period of residency is required before citizenship can be sought. And getting residency in the U.K. is, in some cases, harder than here. Or impossible. My husband has a felony conviction in California from 1990 and was sentenced to 3 years in prison. This has barred him from the U.K. for life. If I had commited the same crime and received the same sentence in the U.K. (not drug-related, non- violent crime), it would have been difficult for me to come here but not impossible. A waiver is also possible here. No waivers at all in the U.K. There are also waivers for lifetime bans here for spouses. Not so in the U.K. 

 

We can only hope for a change in the law. Until then, my husband cannot even visit the U.K. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by JFH