Trump's offensive remarks to Native Americans

[Dashinka 24,500]

23 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Sounds like you are getting your history lessons from the Disney channel.

I suppose you are right.  Perhaps many of the Native Americans out there consider her a traitor for consorting with the invaders, converting to Christianity, and marrying an Englishman, and changing her name to Rebecca.

 

[Dashinka 24,500]

21 hours ago, bcking said:

I think you should read a post by someone with the same name as you, made in another thread.

 

Surely you aren't the same person, since you seem to be contradicting the other person.

It is called demonstrating the hypocrisy of the MDL.  As the MDL in this thread decry a comment and the fact that if even one person is offended action to eliminate it must be taken.  Yet, when it comes to a Christian being offended by the secularization of Christmas they are told by the same MDL to suck it up.  This is what we get with the MDL's identity politics and their insistence that every time anyone is offended something needs to be done.  At some point the identities they are categorizing groups into are going to conflict in what is offensive and the MDL will be left with taking sides between the groups they supposedly support.  I think people just need to check their offense at the door, particularly when it comes to political speech, but I understand that will never happen.  Regardless, as another wise poster noted in another thread, life is too short to really care.

[bcking 3,157]

17 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It is called demonstrating the hypocrisy of the MDL.  As the MDL in this thread decry a comment and the fact that if even one person is offended action to eliminate it must be taken.  Yet, when it comes to a Christian being offended by the secularization of Christmas they are told by the same MDL to suck it up.  This is what we get with the MDL's identity politics and their insistence that every time anyone is offended something needs to be done.  At some point the identities they are categorizing groups into are going to conflict in what is offensive and the MDL will be left with taking sides between the groups they supposedly support.  I think people just need to check their offense at the door, particularly when it comes to political speech, but I understand that will never happen.  Regardless, as another wise poster noted in another thread, life is too short to really care.

Your cries of "hypocrisy" are rendered ineffective when simple self reflection would provide you with your own examples of hypocrisy.

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

It's like Trump questioning Franken about where his hands go...

Edited November 30, 2017 by bcking

[bcking 3,157]

We have to apply a consistent standard. So lets assume that are standard is just that as long as "some" of a group are offended, then it is offensive. If that is the case:

 

1. What Trump said was offensive - Not all Native Americans were offended, but at least some were

2. Kneeling for the anthem is offensive - Not all soldiers were bothered, but some were

3. Saying "Merry Christmas" as a President who represents a multi-cultural society is insensitive - Some people who don't celebrate Christmas find it insensitive. Not all do, but at least some.

 

Consistent standards. I'm willing to concede that kneeling for the anthem is offensive, but if that is the case then what Trump said was clearly also very offensive to veterans. 

 

The Christmas one is a bit more complicated since I recognize that at the same time some Christians are offended by "Happy Holidays" because...I guess they think that it excludes Christmas, or doesn't bring it front and center enough. By our consistent standards then Happy Holidays is also offensive. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by bcking

[Dunngary 37]

The consistent standard should be common sense and ethics which are values above and beyond Trump's grasp or the grasp of his base. Rap lyrics include racial slurs that are acceptable by some but not by others. That doest mean that it's ok to use these slurs just because it doesnt offend some. Some things are wrong irregardless of how you shake it. The unsuccessful attempts at deflection in this op to save Trump from another clear blunder is enough to prove that.

[Dashinka 24,500]

34 minutes ago, bcking said:

Your cries of "hypocrisy" are rendered ineffective when simple self reflection would provide you with your own examples of hypocrisy.

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

It's like Trump questioning Franken about where his hands go...

Like I said, I don't care one way or the other.  I don't care what Trump said, and I don't care if people want to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.  I do love exposing the MDL hypocrisy which is very easy as of late.  Btw, I never said I wasn't hypocritical,  I am only saying that no one can claim to not be a hypocrite.

 

 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

37 minutes ago, bcking said:

Your cries of "hypocrisy" are rendered ineffective when simple self reflection would provide you with your own examples of hypocrisy.

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

It's like Trump questioning Franken about where his hands go...

No it's not 

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

Like I said, I don't care one way or the other.  I don't care what Trump said, and I don't care if people want to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.  I do love exposing the MDL hypocrisy which is very easy as of late.  Btw, I never said I wasn't hypocritical,  I am only saying that no one can claim to not be a hypocrite.

 

 

As long as you're clear that you apply inconsistent standards to topics here...

 

I'll keep that in mind in the future.

[Dashinka 24,500]

14 minutes ago, Dunngary said:

The consistent standard should be common sense and ethics which are values above and beyond Trump's grasp or the grasp of his base. Rap lyrics include racial slurs that are acceptable by some but not by others. That doest mean that it's ok to use these slurs just because it doesnt offend some. Some things are wrong irregardless of how you shake it. The unsuccessful attempts at deflection in this op to save Trump from another clear blunder is enough to prove that.

I think most politicians are devoid of ethics.  Besides, this is not an example of ethics, this is an example of acceptable style.  The MDL does not like Trump's style, and in many ways they have a very unhealthy hatred of the guy.  Regardless of the complaints coming from the MDL, Trump is not going to change his style, but it is not unethical. 

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

I think most politicians are devoid of ethics.  Besides, this is not an example of ethics, this is an example of acceptable style.  The MDL does not like Trump's style, and in many ways they have a very unhealthy hatred of the guy.  Regardless of the complaints coming from the MDL, Trump is not going to change his style, but it is not unethical. 

Using an event honoring a minority veteran group as an opportunity to earn political points against an opponent should not be filed under "style".

 

This should be common sense. How far people have to go to excuse him is pretty sad.

[Dashinka 24,500]

4 minutes ago, bcking said:

As long as you're clear that you apply inconsistent standards to topics here...

 

I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Just as the inconsistencies applied by everyone here.  No one including yourself can claim any higher moral standard.

Just now, bcking said:

Using an event honoring a minority veteran group as an opportunity to earn political points against an opponent should not be filed under "style".

 

This should be common sense. How far people have to go to excuse him is pretty sad.

Regardless, it has nothing to do with ethics.

[bcking 3,157]

8 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Just as the inconsistencies applied by everyone here.  No one including yourself can claim any higher moral standard.

Regardless, it has nothing to do with ethics.

Please feel free to send me, in PM or here, any example where I have applied an inconsistent standard here on these forums.

 

I would prefer my President to have a set of moral principles that tell him that memorials and events for military heroes should be devoid of politics and insults. I think this very much falls under his principles and ethical framework, of which he has very little.

 

Edit: to be clear I'm not saying I haven't been hypocritical ever here or elsewhere. I'm just asking for specific examples because I try to be as self aware as possible so I can try to reframe my thinking to try to minimize those situations as much as possible. I'm constantly trying to self correct to keep myself in the middle.

 

So again - please send me any examples you find.

Edited November 30, 2017 by bcking

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I suppose you are right.  Perhaps many of the Native Americans out there consider her a traitor for consorting with the invaders, converting to Christianity, and marrying an Englishman, and changing her name to Rebecca.

 

 

   Moving on to Wikipedia huh? I guess that's better than Disney. 

[Dunngary 37]

Resorting to Wikipedia is the right move to make when deflection fails.

[bcking 3,157]

39 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Moving on to Wikipedia huh? I guess that's better than Disney. 

 

15 minutes ago, Dunngary said:

Resorting to Wikipedia is the right move to make when deflection fails.

 

In particular I think Native Americans take offense because of the silent film entitled "Pocahontas and John Smith", directed by Bryan Foy in 1924, who was an American film producer and director who produced 214 films between 1924 and 1963, and was known as the "Keeper of the B's" because he headed the B picture unit at Warner Bros. Warner Bros, of course, produced several Western style films including Cheyenne Autumn, a great 1963 epic and western film in which several non-Native American actors played Native Americans.

 

So clearly that is why they don't like the name Pocahontas.