Marriage on ESTA

[ramesesthe2nd 149]

My wife is a Dutch citizen. We got married while she was here on ESTA. It was our intent to get married. I did talk to three different attorneys about taking the AOS route and all of them advised against it. She went back and we filed for CR-1. It is not worth taking the risk IMO with our current administration; they are looking to make an example out of these things. In the mean time, I will visit her a few times and she will come over here on ESTA to stay with me for a while. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by ramesesthe2nd

[Daimdreams 0]

I have heard of people claiming it was no intention to get married and still had their visa denied. Go home and do it the proper way.

12 minutes ago, ramesesthe2nd said:

My wife is a Dutch citizen. We got married while she was here on ESTA. It was our intent to get married. I did talk to three different attorneys about taking the AOS route and all of them advised against it. She went back and we filed for CR-1. It is not worth taking the risk IMO with our current administration; they are looking to make an example out of these things. In the mean time, I will visit her a few times and she will come over here on ESTA to stay with me for a while. 

I agree with this reply.

[geowrian 22,337]

The current administration has no impact here, and the determination of preconceived intent at POE remains the same as it has for years and years.

 

4 minutes ago, Daimdreams said:

I have heard of people claiming it was no intention to get married and still had their visa denied.

USCIS adjudicates AOS applications, which don't involve obtaining a visa.

[Boiler 45,349]

57 minutes ago, Daimdreams said:

I have heard of people claiming it was no intention to get married and still had their visa denied. Go home and do it the proper way.

I agree with this reply.

Why did they need a visa? Which visa were they applying for.

[Yeonin 127]

18 hours ago, Carlas said:

Hi everyone,

 

I am a Dutch national and while visiting my American GF we decided to get married. We did not want to cope with long distance anymore. After some research we saw that it is possible to get married and apply for the AOS while visiting on a ESTA, given that the marriage was not the intent of visiting (which is our case).

However, this is still a stressful and somewhat ambigious process so we hoped if you could help us out with some advice. 

 

Does it matter if we get married before the 60 day mark? we'd rather get married sooner, so that we can speed up the paper work.

if i am in the process of applying for the AOS, and my ESTA expires (90 days) before I attain the AOS, what would be my status during that in between period?

My SO is currently working and living in California, but does not have a California state ID, (she still has her New York one) would this affect where we can apply for the AOS?

 

Thank you very much!

 

 

PS: I am currently in the US on my ESTA which is still valid for 2 more months.

I'm a dutch national as well, got married in August 2016 while on a ESTA, came back home. Filed the CR1, this past January and i'm scheduled for my interview on December 12th at the us embassy in Amsterdam. Me and my wife have been together for over 4 years. These things are always hard, but ask yourself the question, will you mind waiting while filing for AOS in the US, God forbid something happened back home, will you be able to quickly travel back and if not can you live with the knowledge of not being able to tend to your loved ones back home. It's a long and sometimes cruel waiting game when you're separated, i must admit, but i wouldn't have it any other way at this point, i always play safe maybe it's just my legal background. Whatever you decide, it's all in love. Groeten.

[Daimdreams 0]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

Why did they need a visa? Which visa were they applying for.

The AOS in the US from ESTA, as USCIS knows a lot of people tries the shortcut. Really I wouldnt even consider this route if I were you

[NikLR 13,227]

1 hour ago, Daimdreams said:

The AOS in the US from ESTA, as USCIS knows a lot of people tries the shortcut. Really I wouldnt even consider this route if I were you

There's no visa involved.  ESTA is visa waiver.  USCIS has nothing to do with visas.   It's not a short cut.  It's a valid route to living in the USA with your spouse if you are already here, like the OP.

 

I do enjoy all the new members here so lets get this out of the way shall we?

 

ONCE you enter the USA and the CBP says "sure have a good time" then the USCIS CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT, deny you based on intent alone.  It would be ILLEGAL of them to do so.  You could walk into an interview and say "i intended to enter and adjust status," and they still CANNOT deny you your AOS.   So at that point they'll say "you don't have a valid marriage" and they CAN do that.  (Which you can refile for.)  But they cannot say it's because you intended to enter the USA to adjust your status.  However, the CBP may have an issue with you lying to them and charge you with visa fraud.  Chances of it happening is pretty slim though.  

 

Does that mean you should lie? NO!!! Absolutely not.  If the CBP catch you in the lie at the time, you're out of luck and it's a great way to get banned from the USA.  Then you need a waiver etc.... Huge pain in the butt.  It's still illegal to lie to the CBP, DO NOT LIE!!!!  

 

But many people come here to the USA for various reasons (work, school, vacation, etc...) and decide they cannot leave their girlfriend or boyfriend.  That they just can't leave their spouse or children.  That they're suddenly pregnant or any number of other things.  That is the reason the adjustment of status is there. 

 

IMHO they should only be able to adjust status if there is a seriously compelling reason to do so (high risk pregnancy, war or natural disaster, etc...) BUT as I've stated before, my personal opinions aren't worth a grain of salt in this process.  Neither are yours unless that opinion is "what is legal."  End of story. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by NikLR

[Dashinka 24,404]

A lot of great advice here.  As to getting married, that is the easy part and as many have said here they took the CR1 route and (I am assuming here) kept visiting during the adjudication of that process.  What you really need to do after you get married is to sit down with your spouse and examine your specific situation then you can make the decision whether to take the AOS route, or the CR1 route.  Either one is an option and both are legal.

 

Good Luck!

[Boiler 45,349]

3 hours ago, Daimdreams said:

The AOS in the US from ESTA, as USCIS knows a lot of people tries the shortcut. Really I wouldnt even consider this route if I were you

I will bite.

 

Why?

[Boiler 45,349]

3 hours ago, Yeonin said:

I'm a dutch national as well, got married in August 2016 while on a ESTA, came back home. Filed the CR1, this past January and i'm scheduled for my interview on December 12th at the us embassy in Amsterdam. Me and my wife have been together for over 4 years. These things are always hard, but ask yourself the question, will you mind waiting while filing for AOS in the US, God forbid something happened back home, will you be able to quickly travel back and if not can you live with the knowledge of not being able to tend to your loved ones back home. It's a long and sometimes cruel waiting game when you're separated, i must admit, but i wouldn't have it any other way at this point, i always play safe maybe it's just my legal background. Whatever you decide, it's all in love. Groeten.

Insurance is my background.

 

Life is full of risks.

 

To do this involves two additional transatlantic air trips, maybe more.

[.yana 597]

8 hours ago, DrEllaNJ said:

I'm not the one mixing up things, but should have been clearer in saying that it is not true (for spouses of USC anyways) that "You still have to maintain legal status until your green card is issued." This part is not true. You have to be in status to file AOS, but you don't have to maintain it until you receive your green card (what would all those poor people who came in on K1 do when their 90 "legal" days are up?). 

As @geowrianpoints out, as a spouse of LPR you'd have to stay in status until being able to file AOS - but that's not OP's case.

 

Not true. Many people (myself included) adjust with overstay and out of status.

[FluffyBalls 52]

Has there actually been one verified case of an AOS from ESTA/B2 being denied due to "pre conceived" intent? I keep seeing people write

• "I heard about this one couple...",
• "I read about this denial..",
• "Someone told me..."
• "OMG it's so illegal..."

but zero hard, verified cases.

 

I just spoke to two immigration attorneys today. One said that if my girlfriend and I decide to marry, we'd be stupid to go the CR1/K1 route (vs AOS from a B2), another said CR1/K1 and AOS were equally good options. Neither attorney was aware of anyone ever getting deported/barred for life due to "pre conceived" intent. The only denials they were aware of were problems with the application itself.

 

I'd really love to see some actual statistics on this one.

[Boiler 45,349]

45 minutes ago, FluffyBalls said:

Has there actually been one verified case of an AOS from ESTA/B2 being denied due to "pre conceived" intent? I keep seeing people write

• "I heard about this one couple...",
• "I read about this denial..",
• "Someone told me..."
• "OMG it's so illegal..."

but zero hard, verified cases.

 

I just spoke to two immigration attorneys today. One said that if my girlfriend and I decide to marry, we'd be stupid to go the CR1/K1 route (vs AOS from a B2), another said CR1/K1 and AOS were equally good options. Neither attorney was aware of anyone ever getting deported/barred for life due to "pre conceived" intent. The only denials they were aware of were problems with the application itself.

 

I'd really love to see some actual statistics on this one.

I am sure somebody will post links to the may cases where it has been an issue... Must admit I have not seen them.

[NikLR 13,227]

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

A lot of great advice here.  As to getting married, that is the easy part and as many have said here they took the CR1 route and (I am assuming here) kept visiting during the adjudication of that process.  What you really need to do after you get married is to sit down with your spouse and examine your specific situation then you can make the decision whether to take the AOS route, or the CR1 route.  Either one is an option and both are legal.

 

Good Luck!

I will add, once you make a decision, stick with it.  

[geowrian 22,337]

7 hours ago, NikLR said:

You could walk into an interview and say "i intended to enter and adjust status," and they still CANNOT deny you your AOS.   So at that point they'll say "you don't have a valid marriage" and they CAN do that.  (Which you can refile for.)  But they cannot say it's because you intended to enter the USA to adjust your status.  However, the CBP may have an issue with you lying to them and charge you with visa fraud.  Chances of it happening is pretty slim though.

I'll just emphasize that the preconceived intent isn't the issue in that hypothetical case..it would still be reason for them to suspect willful misrepresentation, though.

 

4 hours ago, .yana said:

Not true. Many people (myself included) adjust with overstay and out of status.

True. That said, having no current status is a bar to AOS. But at the same time, there are a number of exceptions to that bar such as immediate relative category situations (i.e. a spouse of a USC). The list of these exceptions to the rule is in the link posted above to the USCIS policy guide.

 

3 hours ago, FluffyBalls said:

I just spoke to two immigration attorneys today. One said that if my girlfriend and I decide to marry, we'd be stupid to go the CR1/K1 route (vs AOS from a B2), another said CR1/K1 and AOS were equally good options. Neither attorney was aware of anyone ever getting deported/barred for life due to "pre conceived" intent. The only denials they were aware of were problems with the application itself.

*Assuming you're already in the US when you decide to marry. If you are not in the US when you determine you want to stay, it would be clear visa fraud to do the AOS route (hence the K-1 option is irrelevant as you could marry without the K-1 anyway).