Anti-Gun Group Wants To Ban Muzzleloaders For Mass Casualty Potential

[yuna628 9,713]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Don't many states often allow muzzleloader for hunting at the same time as bow season?

Yes, I think that's how it works here. Bowhunters drive me crazy.. we have no sidewalks or streetlights and to get anywhere you need to go through the roads via the woods. They are never wearing anything high vis at night, and you can nearly run them over.

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

Ya I openly admit my lack of understanding about firearms in a lot of ways. 

 

I just imagined they were more things that would be like hung above the fireplace or something. 

 

When I was taught American History I seem to recall learning that those old rifles would misfire a lot and were actually quite dangerous (they could just up and explode in your hand). Are the ones people use today an improvement on the originals or are people using ones that are designed in the exact same way? If they are the old style - How often are their complications?

I've heard these rifles need special attention to care and ensuring they will actually fire when you need them to if some sort of moisture gets in. Other than that, the hunters here use them a lot.. but I don't think it would be for someone inexperienced.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

33 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Yes, I think that's how it works here. Bowhunters drive me crazy.. we have no sidewalks or streetlights and to get anywhere you need to go through the roads via the woods. They are never wearing anything high vis at night, and you can nearly run them over.

I've heard these rifles need special attention to care and ensuring they will actually fire when you need them to if some sort of moisture gets in. Other than that, the hunters here use them a lot.. but I don't think it would be for someone inexperienced.

I had a SNCO when I was stationed at Camp Lejeune that would hunt with these rifles for the sport of it, and I remember him saying that he had to take good care of his rifle to fire effectively. I would never use them to go hunting with because they do require a bit more work than just a regular rifle.

 

So it does amaze me how people want to ban this kind of rifle because it seems they just want to do just because and no real reason at all. 

 

FYI, You can go hunting on military bases you just have to check and see what areas are off limits to hunting that day/week. It really helps keep the population of deer down on the bases. But what's funny is on know Camp Lejeune and Fort Bragg the deer loved to hang out on mainside because they knew that they couldn't be hunted while they were there. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Yes, I think that's how it works here. Bowhunters drive me crazy.. we have no sidewalks or streetlights and to get anywhere you need to go through the roads via the woods. They are never wearing anything high vis at night, and you can nearly run them over.

I've heard these rifles need special attention to care and ensuring they will actually fire when you need them to if some sort of moisture gets in. Other than that, the hunters here use them a lot.. but I don't think it would be for someone inexperienced.

They do require special attention.  Modern smokeless powder is much more user-friendly than black powder.  Black powder is very corrosive to metal.  I can shoot a modern firearm, put it away for a week, get it back out, shoot a bunch more rounds thru it, and expect no damage to the barrel.

 

Do that with a muzzle loader, and you WILL get damage inside your barrel.  Keep shooting and not washing it, and you will quickly lose barrel accuracy and integrity.  Even with a stainless barrel on mine, I wash the barrel thoroughly after every time shooting it, even if it is only one shot.  Warm water, much brushing, then a thorough drying followed by a light oiling, and it is protected for the next time I need it.

 

Also, as I alluded to above, it is slow to reload.  Even though mine is much more modern than the older ones.  I put the proper amount of powder pellets in the barrel, then the slug, pull out the tamping rod, tamp it down, replace the tamping rod, then place the firing cap over the firing hole.  Certainly takes less than a “Minute”, but not nearly so fast as even a single-shot modern rifle.  I could probably fire a single-shot bolt action rifle 5 times in the time it takes to reload my muzzle loader.  When it comes to hunting, if you miss that first shot, then you go home hungry, cuz Bambi has exited the county.

[natty bumppo 297]

10 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

Muzzleloaders could be "the next bump stock," and should be regulated, an anti-gun group said.

Washington, DC – A gun control group showcased just how little firearms knowledge it really has on Wednesday, when it warned Americans about the catastrophic threat of muzzleloaders.

In a report titled, “Legal and Lethal: 9 Products That Could Be the Next Bump Stock,” former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords’s anti-gun group unveiled a list of guns and products it deems have the potential to be converted into “military style weapons” in order to create “maximum carnage.”

“Cue the .50 caliber muzzleloader,” the report ominously introduced, “which delivers a particularly lethal .50 caliber round.”

“There’s actually a company that’s trying to jump through a loophole...and create a muzzle that can be shot with a silencer that shoots .50 caliber bullets. That can do a lot of damage,” New York City Council Member Jumaane Williams explained in a Thursday interview with Fox News.

more lunacy at
https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesmatter/news/anti-gun-group-wants-to-ban-muzzleloaders-for-mass-casualty-potential-gmvxRyh2UE60G8eLpuD6qQ

 

You can't reload a front stuffer at a rate of 2-3 times a minute ? ... 

 

Old school techniques under the best of conditions might get this rate of fire.

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, natty bumppo said:

 

You can't reload a front stuffer at a rate of 2-3 times a minute ? ... 

 

Old school techniques under the best of conditions might get this rate of fire.

 

I might be able to.  Never really timed it.  Certainly 1-2, maybe 2-3.  3 pellets per, plastic sabot, primer cap... Next time I pull it out of the locker ( I NEVER leave this one out in the driveway, always keep it locked up, because it has a black synthetic stock ) I will see what assault-like rate of fire I can achieve!

[natty bumppo 297]

1 hour ago, IDWAF said:

They do require special attention.  Modern smokeless powder is much more user-friendly than black powder.  Black powder is very corrosive to metal.  I can shoot a modern firearm, put it away for a week, get it back out, shoot a bunch more rounds thru it, and expect no damage to the barrel.

 

Do that with a muzzle loader, and you WILL get damage inside your barrel.  Keep shooting and not washing it, and you will quickly lose barrel accuracy and integrity.  Even with a stainless barrel on mine, I wash the barrel thoroughly after every time shooting it, even if it is only one shot.  Warm water, much brushing, then a thorough drying followed by a light oiling, and it is protected for the next time I need it.

 

Also, as I alluded to above, it is slow to reload.  Even though mine is much more modern than the older ones.  I put the proper amount of powder pellets in the barrel, then the slug, pull out the tamping rod, tamp it down, replace the tamping rod, then place the firing cap over the firing hole.  Certainly takes less than a “Minute”, but not nearly so fast as even a single-shot modern rifle.  I could probably fire a single-shot bolt action rifle 5 times in the time it takes to reload my muzzle loader.  When it comes to hunting, if you miss that first shot, then you go home hungry, cuz Bambi has exited the county.

Shooting BP is in some ways a lost art. There are many tricks of the trade to minimize bore fouling and retain accuracy. Everything from powder brand, granulation, temperature/humidity for selecting powder (think Montana vs gulf coast TX), load, compression, wad, bullet (greased ... round or conical) and of course the fun factor of simply enjoying shooting. If you are proficient and very patient ... then one shot should be all you need. Bambi is definitely extremely skittish and makes an exit faster than the road runner even without the "beep beep".

 

Looks like you've got the cleaning routine similar to mine.

Water does wonders for cleaning BP. So does 409, simply green, ballistol, or other mild water based cleaner mixed in water (who needs the expensive stuff).

Clean after shooting, lightly oil and put away. Next day take it out and give it a quick clean routine again and you should be GTG.

 

Single Shot BPCR is much easier to clean than a ML. Push the damp patches through, check for lead fouling, wipe it all down and oil, then repeat the next day.

BPCR rifles tend to be on the expensive side ... it still amazes me how fast and easy they are to clean and maintain.

 

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

And in your post you help explain to those above who alluded to it some of the complexities involved in BP rifles.  Once mastered for one’s location, they can be VERY accurate, for sure.  Also very consistent.

 

Never shot a buffalo rifle (BPCR), but it does sound easy.  Mine is a bolt action, which makes cleaning a bit more of a challenge.  But I like the idea of Simple Green.  Not only easier to clean, but it smells so fresh afterwards!

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

8 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

And in your post you help explain to those above who alluded to it some of the complexities involved in BP rifles.  Once mastered for one’s location, they can be VERY accurate, for sure.  Also very consistent.

 

Never shot a buffalo rifle (BPCR), but it does sound easy.  Mine is a bolt action, which makes cleaning a bit more of a challenge.  But I like the idea of Simple Green.  Not only easier to clean, but it smells so fresh afterwards!

Yes, there are alot better cleaners out there than what the Marine Corps uses. I always used specialty cleaners to clean my rifles, but had to cover up the smell from the armorers or they would be pissed. 

 

My next rifle is going to be a bolt action .308 as soon as tax time comes. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Yes, there are alot better cleaners out there than what the Marine Corps uses. I always used specialty cleaners to clean my rifles, but had to cover up the smell from the armorers or they would be pissed. 

 

My next rifle is going to be a bolt action .308 as soon as tax time comes. 

For no real good reason, I want a .308 Lapua Magnum.  You know, with the flash suppressor that allows one to kill three people with one bullet.  And of course the black bipod, allowing it to shoot 2,000 rounds per minute.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

2 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

For no real good reason, I want a .308 Lapua Magnum.  You know, with the flash suppressor that allows one to kill three people with one bullet.  And of course the black bipod, allowing it to shoot 2,000 rounds per minute.

Yeah that's what I want and I told my wife that I am dang well sure going to get it no matter what. I am moving to the East Coast now so I will have more capital to be able to do and buy ammo now. 

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Yeah that's what I want and I told my wife that I am dang well sure going to get it no matter what. I am moving to the East Coast now so I will have more capital to be able to do and buy ammo now. 

 

 

Good for you!  I’d love the new Barrett, but no way I would ever drop $11K on a rifle.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

2 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Good for you!  I’d love the new Barrett, but no way I would ever drop $11K on a rifle.

I am ready to put down some money because I want a good rifle. I already have a AK-47 and I want a .308 to help even things out. 

[Merle 458]

Any stealthiness a suppressor could add to a muzzle loader would be negated by the friggin Hiroshima sized mushroom cloud produced when a muzzle loader is fired. Something tells me these anti gun idiots who come up with this stuff couldn't ell a muzzle loader from a toaster.

[Merle 458]

1 hour ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I am ready to put down some money because I want a good rifle. I already have a AK-47 and I want a .308 to help even things out. 

6.5 caliber rifles are the new 308. 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, etc. 6.5 caliber bullets have a higher ballistic coeffecient than 308 caliber bullets.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

23 minutes ago, Merle said:

6.5 caliber rifles are the new 308. 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, etc. 6.5 caliber bullets have a higher ballistic coeffecient than 308 caliber bullets.

I will look into it, thank you.