Donald Trump criticizes Marshawn Lynch for anthem protest in Mexico

[jayjayj 571]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21485160/president-donald-trump-criticizes-oakland-raiders-rb-marshawn-lynch-sitting-us-national-anthem-standing-mexican-anthem

 

MEXICO CITY -- President Donald Trump took to Twitter early Monday morning to criticize Oakland Raiders running back Marshawn Lynch for standing during the Mexican national anthem but sitting during the anthem for the United States prior to the Raiders' loss to the New England Patriots at Estadio Azteca.

Marshawn Lynch of the NFL's Oakland Raiders stands for the Mexican Anthem and sits down to boos for our National Anthem. Great disrespect! Next time NFL should suspend him for remainder of season. Attendance and ratings way down.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 20, 2017

Lynch was actually standing during the first few bars of "The Star-Spangled Banner" on Sunday before taking a seat. And while he stood for the Mexican anthem, he was not completely at attention.

In a speech on Sept. 22, Trump said players kneeling or sitting during the anthem should be fired, which prompted much backlash across the league.

Lynch, who has remained seated during the playing of the national anthem since coming out of retirement this season, has not said why he sits. He wore a T-shirt that read "Everybody vs. Trump" prior to the Raiders' game against the Broncos in Denver on Oct. 1.

[bcking 3,157]

The standing vs. sitting issue has been played out on these forums quite a bit already.

 

I will say one thing about this example though. I'm fine with him sitting during the National Anthem. However, if it is for the purpose of "protesting", I find it odd that he hasn't said anything about why he is sitting. Pretty ineffectual protest if you don't even make it known what you are protesting.

 

That's like people going down to city hall with picket signs that are blank. We get that you're unhappy but you need to give us a bit more...

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I went to my mom's hometown yesterday to put flowers on her grave. 

 

While there, as always, I visited the grave of 1st LT David Windsor USMC,, who was shot down over Vietnam and died in 1971. His dad was a friend of my Grandmother  and I only met him once as a youngster, but I still remember the day we got a phone call that he had been killed. I remember having 100 questions of my mother, trying to understand.

 

I go by his grave every time I am there to give him a salute and thank him for his sacrifice. While standing over his grave yesterday I thought of the protesters and how little respect they have for young men like Lt. Windsor. 

[Dashinka 24,828]

3 hours ago, bcking said:

The standing vs. sitting issue has been played out on these forums quite a bit already.

 

I will say one thing about this example though. I'm fine with him sitting during the National Anthem. However, if it is for the purpose of "protesting", I find it odd that he hasn't said anything about why he is sitting. Pretty ineffectual protest if you don't even make it known what you are protesting.

 

That's like people going down to city hall with picket signs that are blank. We get that you're unhappy but you need to give us a bit more...

Isn't that the case with all of these guys?  We have no idea what they are protesting, and the story changes constantly.

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Isn't that the case with all of these guys?  We have no idea what they are protesting, and the story changes constantly.

Well I thought at least Kaepernick at least said once why he was not standing. According to wikipedia (the most amazing of sources) - "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder"

 

Though with most other people we've had to basically assume that they were doing it either A. To support Kaepernick's original cause or B. To show support for Kaepernick himself, regardless of his cause

 

As I've said before - I think the whole "sitting during the anthem" is a pretty ineffectual form of protest. The media attention it has gained has certainly helped it gain prominence, but at the end of the day it is a pretty weak form of protest. Despite the cries and whines from some sports fans about how it was "ruining the game", the reality is they aren't actually stopping/slowing/changing anything about the game, everything can continue business as usual, and they are barely making their cause known.

Edited November 20, 2017 by bcking

[Dashinka 24,828]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

Well I thought at least Kaepernick at least said once why he was not standing. According to wikipedia (the most amazing of sources) - "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder"

 

Though with most other people we've had to basically assume that they were doing it either A. To support Kaepernick's original cause or B. To show support for Kaepernick himself, regardless of his cause

 

As I've said before - I think the whole "sitting during the anthem" is a pretty ineffectual form of protest. The media attention it has gained has certainly helped it gain prominence, but at the end of the day it is a pretty weak form of protest. Despite the cries and whines from some sports fans about how it was "ruining the game", the reality is they aren't actually stopping/slowing/changing anything about the game, everything can continue business as usual, and they are barely making their cause known.

Yes, Kaepernick mentioned that, but he also was protesting police, and capitalism, and I think anything else that his girlfriend directed him to protest as it went on.

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Yes, Kaepernick mentioned that, but he also was protesting police, and capitalism, and I think anything else that his girlfriend directed him to protest as it went on.

Perhaps. I don't recall him ever saying he was protesting our armed services, or veterans.

 

As I said before - A National Anthem is not exclusively paying respect to Veterans, especially a National Anthem played at a sports game. It is a general symbol of patriotism. In certain situations the context can be more specific. If someone didn't show respect during the Anthem specifically at a Veterans Day Memorial, that would be pretty disrespectful to the fallen. At a sports game? Not really, at least in my opinion.

[Dashinka 24,828]

6 minutes ago, bcking said:

Perhaps. I don't recall him ever saying he was protesting our armed services, or veterans.

 

As I said before - A National Anthem is not exclusively paying respect to Veterans, especially a National Anthem played at a sports game. It is a general symbol of patriotism. In certain situations the context can be more specific. If someone didn't show respect during the Anthem specifically at a Veterans Day Memorial, that would be pretty disrespectful to the fallen. At a sports game? Not really, at least in my opinion.

It is the perception of those people that matters not the actual words of protestor.  If a current of former member of the US Armed Services perceives Kaepernick's or anyone else's actions to be denigrating to their sacrifice then we have to allow for that.  Of course I am sure there are some who served or are serving that don't reach this conclusion, but as the MDL taught us, it takes just one to tell us that something is wrong. 

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It is the perception of those people that matters not the actual words of protestor.  If a current of former member of the US Armed Services perceives Kaepernick's or anyone else's actions to be denigrating to their sacrifice then we have to allow for that.  Of course I am sure there are some who served or are serving that don't reach this conclusion, but as the MDL taught us, it takes just one to tell us that something is wrong. 

So if you decide to not get the Flu vaccine and I, as a doctor, state that it offends me and my entire profession because you are disrespecting our achievements then you actually are offending us?

 

(I admit it's a silly example, but the first one that popped into my head).

[smilesammich 10,727]

 

24 minutes ago, bcking said:

Perhaps. I don't recall him ever saying he was protesting our armed services, or veterans.

 

As I said before - A National Anthem is not exclusively paying respect to Veterans, especially a National Anthem played at a sports game. It is a general symbol of patriotism. In certain situations the context can be more specific. If someone didn't show respect during the Anthem specifically at a Veterans Day Memorial, that would be pretty disrespectful to the fallen. At a sports game? Not really, at least in my opinion.

that's because he has never said that and he isn't.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

It is the perception of those people that matters not the actual words of protestor.  If a current of former member of the US Armed Services perceives Kaepernick's or anyone else's actions to be denigrating to their sacrifice then we have to allow for that.  Of course I am sure there are some who served or are serving that don't reach this conclusion, but as the MDL taught us, it takes just one to tell us that something is wrong. 

As a former service member, my peers are split on the matter from what I have seen.

 

It's not that he is disrespecting the military IMHO.  We served and fought for freedom.  Even the freedom to kneel in protest.  And all the other freedoms we enjoy in the US.

 

The US isn't nearly as oppressive towards blacks as some would have us believe.  If anyone truly feels that way, I suggest they spend a year or two living in a foreign country.  Those who choose to to try and live in the past might be trying to use that as an excuse for their actions today.

 

But at the end of the day, CK didn't do anything to further a cause from what I have seen.  He could have used his stature as a "star" to affect change much more effectively.  Instead, he comes across as a spoiled half-white dude trying to capitalize on his inbred privilege.   Shameful.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

As a former service member, my peers are split on the matter from what I have seen.

 

It's not that he is disrespecting the military IMHO.  We served and fought for freedom.  Even the freedom to kneel in protest.  And all the other freedoms we enjoy in the US.

 

The US isn't nearly as oppressive towards blacks as some would have us believe.  If anyone truly feels that way, I suggest they spend a year or two living in a foreign country.  Those who choose to to try and live in the past might be trying to use that as an excuse for their actions today.

 

But at the end of the day, CK didn't do anything to further a cause from what I have seen.  He could have used his stature as a "star" to affect change much more effectively.  Instead, he comes across as a spoiled half-white dude trying to capitalize on his inbred privilege.   Shameful.

Well said 

[bcking 3,157]

2 hours ago, IDWAF said:

As a former service member, my peers are split on the matter from what I have seen.

 

It's not that he is disrespecting the military IMHO.  We served and fought for freedom.  Even the freedom to kneel in protest.  And all the other freedoms we enjoy in the US.

 

The US isn't nearly as oppressive towards blacks as some would have us believe.  If anyone truly feels that way, I suggest they spend a year or two living in a foreign country.  Those who choose to to try and live in the past might be trying to use that as an excuse for their actions today.

 

But at the end of the day, CK didn't do anything to further a cause from what I have seen.  He could have used his stature as a "star" to affect change much more effectively.  Instead, he comes across as a spoiled half-white dude trying to capitalize on his inbred privilege.   Shameful.

Agreed, well said.

 

The only exception I'd make is that while we aren't as bad as many countries, we also aren't as good as others. In addition, comparing ourselves may make us feel better, but ultimately even if we were the best country in the world, we are still falling short on where we should be. Being "better" than a group of countries that are bad doesn't necessarily mean we are good. Though it does help to have perspective.

 

Otherwise I agree. He didn't really get anything done, and the continued protests, despite the attention, don't really achieve anything. They also really don't impact football except when people just like to complain about it.

Edited November 21, 2017 by bcking