Doug Jones takes lead on Roy Moore in new Senate poll

[TBoneTX 46,122]

Would like to hear from Maven how (if at all) attorneys would approach defending someone thus accused.  There seems to be no clear remedy.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

There is no clear remedy, at least legally. The statute of limitations has run, so they can only ever be allegations, at least at law. The court of public opinion is another matter of course. We can't say he's guilty or innocent of these acts, but that doesn't mean that there can't be evidence of what he did or did not do, or that there can't be real life consequences for Moore, even if there's no trial.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Just thinking about this a little more during the day: if Moore were subpoenaed to testify before the Senate about this matter, and it could be proven that he lied under oath, that's perjury and there could be penal or more likely monetary sanctions for perjurious conduct. If he were already elected, he could be impeached and expelled as well.

[CaliCat 3,957]

4 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

Just thinking about this a little more during the day: if Moore were subpoenaed to testify before the Senate about this matter, and it could be proven that he lied under oath, that's perjury and there could be penal or more likely monetary sanctions for perjurious conduct. If he were already elected, he could be impeached and expelled as well.

 

The GOP is already talking about expelling him, in the event he is elected. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

11 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

Just thinking about this a little more during the day: if Moore were subpoenaed to testify before the Senate about this matter, and it could be proven that he lied under oath, that's perjury and there could be penal or more likely monetary sanctions for perjurious conduct. If he were already elected, he could be impeached and expelled as well.

Thanks for busting thru all the jailhouse google internet lawyer bull that is slung and here and giving us the low down.

 

Extra points for short words and brevity 

[TBoneTX 46,122]

3 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Thanks for busting thru all the jailhouse google internet lawyer bull that is slung and here and giving us the low down.

Extra points for short words and brevity 

Calling Maven low-slung?

Seriously:  agreed, and gracias Maven.

[jayjayj 571]

11 hours ago, elmcitymaven said:

There is no clear remedy, at least legally. The statute of limitations has run, so they can only ever be allegations, at least at law. The court of public opinion is another matter of course. We can't say he's guilty or innocent of these acts, but that doesn't mean that there can't be evidence of what he did or did not do, or that there can't be real life consequences for Moore, even if there's no trial.

The court of public opinion is a dangerous place for all, but especially so for someone who isn't involved in a court of law case.  Unlike the court of law, where people are presumed to be innocent, people tend to be presumed guilty in the court of public opinion, even more so when political motivations are involved.  Convictions don't happen in a court of law when there is zero evidence to corroborate an accusation, prosecutions rarely happen with zero evidence - there could be faulty evidence or disputed evidence, but never zero evidence.  This should tell you all you need to know about the Roy Moore trial in the court of public opinion.  

 

4 hours ago, elmcitymaven said:

Just thinking about this a little more during the day: if Moore were subpoenaed to testify before the Senate about this matter, and it could be proven that he lied under oath, that's perjury and there could be penal or more likely monetary sanctions for perjurious conduct. If he were already elected, he could be impeached and expelled as well.

Have any of his accusers attempted to file a police report?  I suspect they haven't, because this would also open them up to potential criminal charges, such as filing a false police report.  

 

This is a classic he said/she said matter.  There is zero evidence, either way.  Both sides effectively cancel each other out.  What are we left with?  Politics

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

5 hours ago, jayjayj said:

The court of public opinion is a dangerous place for all, but especially so for someone who isn't involved in a court of law case.  Unlike the court of law, where people are presumed to be innocent, people tend to be presumed guilty in the court of public opinion, even more so when political motivations are involved.  Convictions don't happen in a court of law when there is zero evidence to corroborate an accusation, prosecutions rarely happen with zero evidence - there could be faulty evidence or disputed evidence, but never zero evidence.  This should tell you all you need to know about the Roy Moore trial in the court of public opinion.  

 

Have any of his accusers attempted to file a police report?  I suspect they haven't, because this would also open them up to potential criminal charges, such as filing a false police report.  

 

This is a classic he said/she said matter.  There is zero evidence, either way.  Both sides effectively cancel each other out.  What are we left with?  Politics

Seriously?

[jayjayj 571]

3 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Seriously?

Everyone in our country is entitled to due process and a presumption of innocence.  Maybe he did what they said, maybe he didn't.  Maybe these allegations are politically motivated, maybe they aren't.  

 

Let justice run its course.

 

 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

8 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

Everyone in our country is entitled to due process and a presumption of innocence.  Maybe he did what they said, maybe he didn't.  Maybe these allegations are politically motivated, maybe they aren't.  

 

Let justice run its course.

 

 

There is not going to be justice, those young ladies are grown now and had to bear the scars of this abusive man all of their lives. Now the only thing the people of Alabama can do is use common sense and not vote for this man to go to the Senate.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

7 hours ago, jayjayj said:

The court of public opinion is a dangerous place for all, but especially so for someone who isn't involved in a court of law case.  Unlike the court of law, where people are presumed to be innocent, people tend to be presumed guilty in the court of public opinion, even more so when political motivations are involved.  Convictions don't happen in a court of law when there is zero evidence to corroborate an accusation, prosecutions rarely happen with zero evidence - there could be faulty evidence or disputed evidence, but never zero evidence.  This should tell you all you need to know about the Roy Moore trial in the court of public opinion.  

 

Have any of his accusers attempted to file a police report?  I suspect they haven't, because this would also open them up to potential criminal charges, such as filing a false police report.  

 

This is a classic he said/she said matter.  There is zero evidence, either way.  Both sides effectively cancel each other out.  What are we left with?  Politics

I think from what Maven said it's to late to file charges..  Wonder if they could file a civil suit 

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

3 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I think from what Maven said it's to late to file charges..  Wonder if they could file a civil suit 

Correct-o, NB. But really the only civil action that any of these women could file at this point would be a defamation action, and I can't see that happening, especially since (correct me if I am wrong) Moore hasn't called any of them liars or delusional. Calling them wrong or mistaken is perfectly fine, however, since that's unlikely to be a defamatory statement and is most likely just an opinion.

 

Also, I understand the difference between a court of law and the court of public opinion, and the standards of evidence and proof for both, but thank you for the lesson jay!  

[TBoneTX 46,122]

If a civil action goes to court, and there erupts a shouting-match, could the case then be dismissed because the civil action has become uncivil?

[Tahoma 2,292]

If Roy Moore is elected...

 

It took the Senate 33 months to investigate the 19 sex abuse charges against Republican Senator Bob Packwood. When the Senate report was released, Packwood resigned rather than face certain expulsion from the Senate.

 

Roy Moore could become the first Senator expelled from the Senate since the Civil War.

[charmander 692]

Speaking of polls, has anyone ever participated in a political poll? (except online polls)

 

I know someone who won $10M from MA State lottery but ever never met someone who got asked a political opinion question.

Edited November 15, 2017 by charmander