Why Are People Getting RFEs for Websites (IMBRA) with I-129F Submissions?

[ddtenor2 80]

11 minutes ago, JonJulia said:

You see, this goes to my question.  I have read the instructions...very carefully.  I have a lot of legal experience, just not in this.  A careful reading of Question 34a plainly states they want to know the circumstances of your in person meeting, not how you initially met.  These are two different things.  Your specific example could have drawn a RFE....because you didn't name the dating website...or maybe you did and are just not stating it here and maybe you submitted their terms and conditions along with your i129F, but once more, you didn't state whether you submitted them or not.

 

Did you name the website? I did not.  And did you include their terms and conditions? I did not.  What year was this? June, 2015, although even then I was seeing a number of posts on VJ stating that individuals were getting RFEs if they met via a website.  Thanks

 

It is not a misrepresentation to not include something the form and instructions don't ask for.  They don't ask, why tell?

 

Lots of people have advice but I'm looking for situations whereby someone didn't 'tell their story' and got a RFE for IMBRA...recently...like in the last couple of years.  Thanks 

 

 

 

You appear to be someone who believes in "the letter of the law."  You may not have a problem with that when dealing with USCIS, but keep in mind:  they make the rules and there is very little you can do in the way of appealing their decisions if they don't see things from your perspective.  Good luck on your journey.

[JonJulia 5]

18 minutes ago, ddtenor2 said:

 

You appear to be someone who believes in "the letter of the law."  You may not have a problem with that when dealing with USCIS, but keep in mind:  they make the rules and there is very little you can do in the way of appealing their decisions if they don't see things from your perspective.  Good luck on your journey.

Thanks for your answer.  Now I understand what prompted your RFE.

[ddtenor2 80]

34 minutes ago, JonJulia said:

Thanks for your answer.  Now I understand what prompted your RFE.

Sorry for the confusion.  I never got an RFE, even though I included that we met via a website.  My point was that others on VJ did.  I was simply prepared with the information that I would have needed to provide in the event that I had gotten an RFE.

 

Whether or not an RFE is sent seems to boil down to the adjudicator reviewing the petition.

Edited November 12, 2017 by ddtenor2
further clarification

[jan22 3,069]

1 hour ago, JonJulia said:

You see, this goes to my question.  I have read the instructions...very carefully.  I have a lot of legal experience, just not in this.  A careful reading of Question 34a plainly states they want to know the circumstances of your in person meeting, not how you initially met.  These are two different things.  Your specific example could have drawn a RFE....because you didn't name the dating website...or maybe you did and are just not stating it here and maybe you submitted their terms and conditions along with your i129F, but once more, you didn't state whether you submitted them or not.

 

Did you name the website? And did you include their terms and conditions? What year was this? Thanks

 

It is not a misrepresentation to not include something the form and instructions don't ask for.  They don't ask, why tell?

 

Lots of people have advice but I'm looking for situations whereby someone didn't 'tell their story' and got a RFE for IMBRA...recently...like in the last couple of years.  Thanks 

 

 

While they are two different things, and I obviously don't know your story, it is hard to discuss how you met in person without including something about how you knew this person in another country existed in the first place.  How did it come about that you flew hundreds/thousands of miles to spend time with this person, meet the family, etc.?  There's nothing wrong with having met via a website that is not an IMBRA site --- and most are not.  IMO, you're as likely to get a RFE to explain how you knew about this person to begin with as you are for showing you did not meet via a IMBRA site.  So, why not include the website info and documentation of non-IMBRA-ness up front?

 

And, in further support of being completely open, the petition IS the place to initially tell your story, not just the visa interview.  The whole purpose of the petition is to show USCIS that you are actually engaged to this person and have a bona vide relationship that will lead to marriage in the US.  Information on one meeting does not usually easily show that.  If you make it too difficult to see that, you will likely get a RFE to fill in the blanks in your story.

Edited November 12, 2017 by jan22

[Jeanne Adil 1,651]

You seem to be looking for an RFE to make sense

Mine wanted death certificates for my dad and his / why???? i have no idea

proof that i told my mommie i was going to marry/    i was over 40 years old and my mom can't remember anything

an RFE doesn't have to make sense 

mine was 4 pages long and the answer weighed 25 pounds

i failed to write the letter / failed to say i had already made 3 trips of over a month each to Morocco and failed to say we did not meet on dating site or through marriage broker and that i had converted to his religion before we even met

[JonJulia 5]

27 minutes ago, jan22 said:

While they are two different things, and I obviously don't know your story, it is hard to discuss how you met in person without including something about how you knew this person in another country existed in the first place.  How did it come about that you flew hundreds/thousands of miles to spend time with this person, meet the family, etc.? They don't ask, do they?

 

And, in further support of being completely open, the petition IS the place to initially tell your story, not just the visa interview.  If it is, they they ought to convey that in the instructions or have a place for it in the form.  Submissions to the Embassy for the upcoming interview, I can understand.  Before that, not so much.  The whole purpose of the petition is to show USCIS that you are actually engaged (there is no requirement to be engaged at the time of the filing, but of course it would help) to this person and have a bona vide relationship that will lead to marriage in the US.  Information on one meeting does not usually easily show that.  If you make it too difficult to see that, you will likely get a RFE to fill in the blanks in your story.  Now see, you are talking about 'in person' meetings, not the story of how you met.  Two different things.  I agree that if you have met in person more than once, then you should include evidence,,,photos that you can tie dates and landmarks to...but your love story of how you initially met is just not asked for in the I-129F.  I'm looking for RFEs from people who simply didn't tell their story.  

 

[csk2b1 44]

2 hours ago, kris&me said:

 

we met in person in Paris at Charles De Gaule airport when i was stranded in an ice storm with all ATM's down

 

 

 

 

This is a normal day at CDG, except for the ice storm; lost baggage, broken down baggage carousels, strikes, power cuts, diverted aircraft. Nice to see that some good came out of your experience!

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by csk2b1

[jan22 3,069]

4 minutes ago, JonJulia said:

 

How can you say there is no requirement to be engaged at the time of filing??  This petition is for a fiance/fiancee, with a commitment to marry within 90 days of entering the US, i.e., you have already committed to marrying this person.  Dictionaries define fiance/fiancee as a person engaged to be married.  You cannot parse the language any other way to meet your personal definiton of engagement.   

 

In that same vein, the instructions ask you to tell about tell how you met -- where you are focusing only on the two words "in person".  To present a coherent description of the in-person meeting usually needs at least a simple statement about how you first learned about this person.  This description does not have to be your "love story" of how you met.  In fact, for most people, the initial contact was not about love at all; that develops over time.  Doesn't need to be a romance novel that talks about when you knew he/she was "the one", just how you came to know this person existed as the base point in your telling how you met.  For example, "[Fiance's name] and I first met on-line on [website,] a non-IMBRA site.  After texting/emailing/Skyping/whatever-communication-medium-used for [however long it was], I flew [or whatever means of transport] [to whatever place] for a [length of stay] visit to meet him/her in person. We have visited XX times since first meeting [if you have multiple visits], most recently [dates]."  Nothing about your great, enduring love story -- just the facts.  This presents a clear description versus "I was in his/her country for two weeks [dates] and we spent every day together."  You need to convince the USCIS officer that you know this person well enough to marry him/her shortly after they enter (within 90 days) the United States.

 

But, you seem to believe you know best and are only looking for confirming answers, so I am out of this discussion.

[JonJulia 5]

9 minutes ago, jan22 said:

 

 

But, you seem to believe you know best and are only looking for confirming answers, so I am out of this discussion.

Actually, I asked a very specific question, and you can't give a specific answer.  Adding 'fluff' to an application can lead to problems just as it can lead to benefits.  Anything you say can and will be used against you if they don't like what you said.

 

Now, once again, is there anyone out there who didn't tell their story of how they initially met......if it is different than their 'in person' meeting....like, for example, they met online.....that got a RFE for NOT telling this 'not asked for information' when they filled their I129-F??

[gregcrs2 1,778]

OP, just do whatever you want and get whatever result you get.  You don't want to provide info, then don't provide it.    

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

There appears to have been some change recently about the IMBRA, in that more people are being required to submit it for dating sites.  I have no idea why, but just could be an internal policy to ask for further clarification.

 

 

[kris&me 572]

1 hour ago, csk2b1 said:

This is a normal day at CDG, except for the ice storm; lost baggage, broken down baggage carousels, strikes, power cuts, diverted aircraft. Nice to see that some good came out of your experience!

 

Thanks   i thought so too   What are the chances of an american meeting someone from Ecuador in an airport and then getting married???

 

[Habitaters 96]

5 hours ago, kris&me said:

it is best to write a letter of introduction of your application

how you were introduced

website or by a person

how you correspond

where you meet in person and when

how long where you togethe

at what point did you decide to be engaged

what are your future plans

just a summary of meeting and timespan

or get an RFE to say all and delay the process

and none of want any delays

I agree. We did this too as suggested by our friend who is an Immigration Consultant.

I agree too - why ask then insult those who offer suggestions.

[Eu_Sou_Douglas 75]

To the OP - I hired an attorney for this process just to have guidance in the event something went wrong.  We filed at the end of June and have not received our NOA2 or any RFEs yet.  My attorney strongly advised me to include specific information regarding the site where my fiance and I met, specifically:

 

- Name of the website

- Terms of Service  (if not available, an email from their support / customer service indicating they ARE NOT IMBRA)

- Membership Fees paid / dates of paid membership

- Evidence(s) of contact on/through website, if available, to establish origin of relationship and that we were not introduced by a 3rd party or offered anything to begin the relationship

- A notarized letter, one written by me and one written by her, clearly stating HOW we met, WHEN we met, our PLANS TO MARRY, and how much we love each other.  These points were crystal clear - HOW, WHY, PLANS to MARRY.

 

He did not give specifics but mentioned a prior case he learned that dating sites are becoming a targeted point of interest for USCIS and he expects social media to be brought under the investigation scope umbrella for these applications as early as Q2/Q3 of next year. (2018)  In fact, this information was requested on his Evidence Letter that clearly listed everything he required to submit our 1-29F.  While I understand that you have a very specific, black and white approach to your question, if you just alienate other members you won't receive the direct answer you seek.  A little respect goes a long way in a community like this.  While this is not the concise answer you are looking for, I felt it was relevant to factor into your decision on how you will proceed with your petition.  Best of luck to everyone out there.  Thank God this is only a one time process.

[x_driven_x 1,778]

1 hour ago, JonJulia said:

Actually, I asked a very specific question, and you can't give a specific answer.  Adding 'fluff' to an application can lead to problems just as it can lead to benefits.  Anything you say can and will be used against you if they don't like what you said.

 

Now, once again, is there anyone out there who didn't tell their story of how they initially met......if it is different than their 'in person' meeting....like, for example, they met online.....that got a RFE for NOT telling this 'not asked for information' when they filled their I129-F??

 JonJulia,

 

Your questions / responses in this thread remind me of many men I have met along my journey. I have a friend who runs meet and greet events for men and women in Ukraine, so I've met many. I think you're problem is you're looking at this as black and white, does it say X or does it say Y, and how can I pinpoint a clear path through to perhaps avoid triggering some mechanism. On the one hand this is a very subjective process and it depends on the USCIS and consular officers reviewing your case. On the other, while the language may ask about your meeting in person, they will want to know the details around that because otherwise that leaves a lot of wiggle room for someone to lie, yes?

 

If you look into the IMBRA law, it seems to generally be concerned with how were contact details exchanged. And thus, you can see where this might be going... how did you meet this lady in person, was it totally random, or was there contact prior to them meeting that led to it? Contact with whom and how? If you contacted the lady, where did you get her contact details? If you got their contact details from a website... did the lady know and give permission specifcaly for the website to give them to you? So while you are concentrating on the language of one line.... in reality, there is a bigger picture the officers will be looking at and they review a lot of cases and have a subjective sense on when someone is trying to skirt being completely truthful.

 

Now if I tie this back to my first line... you remind me of those men because they are generally older, believe themselves intelligent, and get a little egotistic when you try to point out there's something their not seeing. You keep looking for a very specific path and the reality is that is it a lore more nuanced than that. A lot of these men I know of ending up "falling in love" only to be taken advantage of because they have blinders on. There's an entire scam industry around taking advantage of that... and in the end, USCIS is on the lookout for those types of possible situations, and people overly vague about details get an RFE to explain in.

 

For example. "We met at a restaurant" could be absolutely true; but that wouldn't tell the whole story of "I and her were at the restaurant because a company facilitated it after i paid them money for the opportunity".  They want to know the details around your situation, how much is being left out. Therefore, if you are vague, they will pry those details out with an RFE, and if you avoid the answer like Mohammad Ali in that exhibition bout, then it doesn't look good for you.