'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[jayjayj 571]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

Currently, no.

 

Perhaps if we have 10 or 20 "mass murder" events via chainsaw we may need to revisit that. 

 

Though since it isn't actually mentioned in an Amendment, perhaps for the USA it would only take 1.

Doctors in America kill more people every year with fraudulent or over-prescribed Opioid prescriptions.  Perhaps we need to administer monthly lie detector tests to doctors to ensure they aren't breaking the law.  

[bcking 3,157]

24 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

Doctors in America kill more people every year with fraudulent or over-prescribed Opioid prescriptions.  Perhaps we need to administer monthly lie detector tests to doctors to ensure they aren't breaking the law.  

For some reason it didn't post my response...it may be shorter this time.

 

1. An opioid overdose has many steps to the end. Doctors are involved, but it is dishonest to say they kill the people. That, to me, implies sole responsibility. 

 

2. Opioids are scheduled substances. Doctors need to be registered, and need to reregister frequently. We are monited in how we prescribe and are limited in how much we can prescribe to a patient. We can very easily lose our privileges.

 

More work needs to be done, and I can tell you every responsible opioid prescriber would support greater restrictions and improved monitoring of their use. Responsible prescribers aren't afraid of loosing our "right to prescribe". We actually have people's best interest in mind and would love to see better regulation. That can't be said of many responsible gun owners who seem more preoccupied with their own guns.

 

Not to mention, the opioid epidemic is getting attention, as it deserves. People don't have issues admitting the problems. The right isn't asking we just "pray" for the victims and pretend that will help. We aren't just throwing our hands up and saying "mental health" but doing nothing.

[jayjayj 571]

3 minutes ago, bcking said:

For some reason it didn't post my response...it may be shorter this time.

 

1. An opioid overdose has many steps to the end. Doctors are involved, but it is dishonest to say they kill the people. That, to me, implies sole responsibility. 

 

2. Opioids are scheduled substances. Doctors need to be registered, and need to reregister frequently. We are monited in how we prescribe and are limited in how much we can prescribe to a patient. We can very easily lose our privileges.

 

More work needs to be done, and I can tell you every responsible opioid prescriber would support greater restrictions and improved monitoring of their use. Responsible prescribers aren't afraid of loosing our "right to prescribe". We actually have people's best interest in mind and would love to see better regulation. That can't be said of many responsible gun owners who seem more preoccupied with their own guns.

 

Not to mention, the opioid epidemic is getting attention, as it deserves. People don't have issues admitting the problems. The right isn't asking we just "pray" for the victims and pretend that will help. We aren't just throwing our hands up and saying "mental health" but doing nothing.

How do opioids get to patients and the black market?  They get there from a doctor's prescription, one way or another.  Now there are more and more studies showing opioids are no better than paracetamol - https://www.google.ae/search?q=opioids+no+better+than+paracetamol&oq=opioids+no+better+than+paracetamol&aqs=chrome..69i57.8007j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8  So why do doctors keep prescribing highly addictive opioids at record rates?  It might have something to do with the perks they get from big pharmaceutical companies, it certainly has nothing to do with the best interests of the patients.  Big pharma essentially bribes doctors to prescribe unneeded medication that is highly addictive and ruins countless lives (addictions and deaths) - way more than gun violence in America.  Do you admonish your colleagues for taking perks from pharmaceutical companies in exchange for prescribing addictive drugs to patients?

 

Even though doctors are monitored and there are electronic systems in place to prevent it, doctors still continue to illegally over-prescribe them, killing thousands and addicting tens of thousands of people every year.  Registering, re-registering, and monitoring aren't doing anything to stem the tide.  That government run system fails consistently.  If most doctors really supported more regulation, the AMA would push for it and Congress would act, but I don't see the AMA pushing for it.  Isn't the AMA run by doctors and don't they have a powerful lobby in Congress?  It sounds like it is similar to the NRA, in that it is looking out for the interests of its members.

 

There are many similarities between these two topics.

 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

Have we resolved anything on this thread?

[Boiler 45,872]

10 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Have we resolved anything on this thread?

Some people are very biased in their choice of Chainsaws.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

21 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Have we resolved anything on this thread?

We have resolved that every strawman in the gun lobbies bag of tricks will be used to deny that there is a gun violence issue in the US, and it's apparently good enough to count as sympathy for the innocent victims, no matter how many or how young.

[bcking 3,157]

38 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

How do opioids get to patients and the black market?  They get there from a doctor's prescription, one way or another.  Now there are more and more studies showing opioids are no better than paracetamol - https://www.google.ae/search?q=opioids+no+better+than+paracetamol&oq=opioids+no+better+than+paracetamol&aqs=chrome..69i57.8007j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8  So why do doctors keep prescribing highly addictive opioids at record rates?  It might have something to do with the perks they get from big pharmaceutical companies, it certainly has nothing to do with the best interests of the patients.  Big pharma essentially bribes doctors to prescribe unneeded medication that is highly addictive and ruins countless lives (addictions and deaths) - way more than gun violence in America.  Do you admonish your colleagues for taking perks from pharmaceutical companies in exchange for prescribing addictive drugs to patients?

 

Even though doctors are monitored and there are electronic systems in place to prevent it, doctors still continue to illegally over-prescribe them, killing thousands and addicting tens of thousands of people every year.  Registering, re-registering, and monitoring aren't doing anything to stem the tide.  That government run system fails consistently.  If most doctors really supported more regulation, the AMA would push for it and Congress would act, but I don't see the AMA pushing for it.  Isn't the AMA run by doctors and don't they have a powerful lobby in Congress?  It sounds like it is similar to the NRA, in that it is looking out for the interests of its members.

 

There are many similarities between these two topics.

 

I never understand this conception of "perks" that people always talk about. Usually people who aren't actually in the field.The closest thing I've ever gotten to a "perk" from "big pharma" has been free lunch when attending an unrelated lecture. They don't even talk to you, they just give you food. 

 

What bribes are you speaking of, specifically? Are doctors taking money? Are they getting nice cars in return? Please explain.

 

I've never received or been over any special perk for prescribing an opioid. Perhaps it's out there, but I've never seen these perks. It's not like they are handing out money bags. I think I may also have a pen with the name of a formula manufacturer. I'm sure that pen really influenced what formula I put a kid on...

 

There are bad doctors out there I'm sure, and I support reigning them in. Fortunately most people identify the problem, as I've already said, instead of denying it exists.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, jayjayj said:

Doctors in America kill more people every year with fraudulent or over-prescribed Opioid prescriptions.  Perhaps we need to administer monthly lie detector tests to doctors to ensure they aren't breaking the law.  

 

     Do you similarly hold gun manufacturers responsible for all deaths caused by firearms? That is ~34000 deaths per year. 

[jayjayj 571]

4 minutes ago, bcking said:

I never understand this conception of "perks" that people always talk about. Usually people who aren't actually in the field.The closest thing I've ever gotten to a "perk" from "big pharma" has been free lunch when attending an unrelated lecture. They don't even talk to you, they just give you food. 

 

What bribes are you speaking of, specifically? Are doctors taking money? Are they getting nice cars in return? Please explain.

 

I've never received or been over any special perk for prescribing an opioid. Perhaps it's out there, but I've never seen these perks. It's not like they are handing out money bags. I think I may also have a pen with the name of a formula manufacturer. I'm sure that pen really influenced what formula I put a kid on...

 

There are bad doctors out there I'm sure, and I support reigning them in. Fortunately most people identify the problem, as I've already said, instead of denying it exists.

It seems to be happening, even if it isn't happening to you.  

 

http://www.newsweek.com/big-pharma-opioid-crisis-bribery-arrest-694154

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4778168/US-doctors-paid-47M-push-painkillers.html

[jayjayj 571]

2 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     Do you similarly hold gun manufacturers responsible for all deaths caused by firearms? That is ~34000 deaths per year. 

Exactly my point, do you blame doctors for all opioid deaths in America?  Do you blame big pharma?  Or is it that you just don't care, because you have selective outrage?

[jayjayj 571]

9 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

It seems to be happening, even if it isn't happening to you.  

 

http://www.newsweek.com/big-pharma-opioid-crisis-bribery-arrest-694154

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4778168/US-doctors-paid-47M-push-painkillers.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/americas-heroin-epidemic/many-doctors-get-goodies-opioid-makers-n791281

 

"Between 2013 and 2015, the team found 375,266 payments worth $46 million made to more than 68,000 doctors."

Edited November 9, 2017 by jayjayj

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

14 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   By strict, he means there's a law banning magazines that hold more than 15 rounds. From the reaction here, you would have thought they passed a law requiring gun owners to have a testicle removed or something.

Pretty much the same thing in my book 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

11 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

Exactly my point, do you blame doctors for all opioid deaths in America?  Do you blame big pharma?  Or is it that you just don't care, because you have selective outrage?

 

   No, and I don't blame gun manufacturers for people who commit suicide either. 

 

   I do recognize we have problems with these things though. You don't see the AMA trying to deny that opioid abuse is a problem. I haven't heard my doctor say that giving everyone more opioids would reduce opioid abuse. I don't hear facetious expressions like opioids don't kill people, people kill people. 

 

  

   

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Pretty much the same thing in my book 

 

   Personally, I'd rather be limited to 15 rounds than lose a testicle, but that's just me.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

9 hours ago, jayjayj said:

Let's look at overall homicide rates per country per 100,000 inhabitants, reported by the UN.  You'll need to scroll down pretty far to get to the U.S. - which is 94th in the world.  Many of those countries have strict gun laws and hardly any firearms, so how do you explain the high murder rates?  I thought people only got murdered by guns?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

 

UNODC murder rates (per 100,000 inhabitants). Most recent year UNODC has published

Country (or dependent territory, subnational area, etc.)	Rate	Count	Region	Subregion	Year listed	Notes
El Salvador	108.64	6,656	Americas	Central America	2015
Honduras	63.75	5,148	Americas	Central America	2015
Venezuela	57.15	17,778	Americas	South America	2015
United States Virgin Islands (US)	52.64	56	Americas	Caribbean	2010
Jamaica	43.21	1,207	Americas	Caribbean	2012
Lesotho	38.00	764	Africa	Southern Africa	2010
Belize	34.40	121	Americas	Central America	2014
South Africa	34.27	18,673	Africa	Southern Africa	2015
Saint Kitts and Nevis	33.55	18	Americas	Caribbean	2012
Guatemala	31.21	4,998	Americas	Central America	2014
Trinidad and Tobago	30.88	420	Americas	Caribbean	2015
Bahamas	29.81	111	Americas	Caribbean	2012
Anguilla (UK)	27.66	4	Americas	Caribbean	2014
Brazil	26.74	55,574	Americas	South America	2015
Colombia	26.50	12,782	Americas	South America	2015	notes
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	25.61	28	Americas	Caribbean	2012
Saint Lucia	21.56	39	Americas	Caribbean	2012
Montserrat (UK)	20.39	1	Americas	Caribbean	2008
Tuvalu	20.28	2	Oceania	Polynesia	2012
Guyana	19.42	149	Americas	South America	2015
Dominican Republic	17.39	1,810	Americas	Caribbean	2014
Namibia	16.93	388	Africa	Southern Africa	2012
Mexico	16.35	20,762	Americas	Central America	2015	notes
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (France)	15.94	1	Americas	Northern America	2009
Puerto Rico (US)	15.86	584	Americas	Caribbean	2015
Cayman Islands (UK)	14.74	8	Americas	Caribbean	2009
South Sudan	13.70	1,504	Africa	Eastern Africa	2012	notes
Democratic Republic of the Congo	13.36	10,322	Africa	Middle Africa	2015
French Guiana (France)	13.17	30	Americas	South America	2009
Central African Republic	13.09	642	Africa	Middle Africa	2015	notes
Greenland (Denmark)	12.46	7	Americas	Northern America	2015
Bolivia	12.40	1,270	Americas	South America	2012
Uganda	11.84	4,473	Africa	Eastern Africa	2014
Ivory Coast	11.84	2,688	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Costa Rica	11.77	566	Americas	Central America	2015
Nicaragua	11.49	675	Americas	Central America	2012
Panama	11.38	447	Americas	Central America	2015
Russia	11.31	16,232	Europe	Eastern Europe	2015
Antigua and Barbuda	11.23	10	Americas	Caribbean	2012
Barbados	10.91	31	Americas	Caribbean	2015
Republic of the Congo	10.88	466	Africa	Middle Africa	2015
Mali	10.82	1,905	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Suriname	10.68	58	Americas	South America	2015
Botswana	10.53	220	Africa	Southern Africa	2011
Papua New Guinea	10.42	713	Oceania	Melanesia	2010
Mauritania	10.22	416	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Haiti	10.04	1,033	Americas	Caribbean	2012
Philippines	9.84	9,756	Asia	South-Eastern Asia	2014
Nigeria	9.79	17,843	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Angola	9.65	2,414	Africa	Middle Africa	2015
Paraguay	9.29	617	Americas	South America	2015
Guinea-Bissau	9.17	169	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Togo	9.14	668	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Gambia	9.07	181	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Chad	9.02	1,266	Africa	Middle Africa	2015
Gabon	9.00	155	Africa	Middle Africa	2015
Cape Verde	8.84	46	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Guinea	8.46	1,067	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Uruguay	8.42	289	Americas	South America	2015
Dominica	8.40	6	Americas	Caribbean	2011
British Virgin Islands (UK)	8.37	2	Americas	Caribbean	2006
Ecuador	8.23	1,309	Americas	South America	2014
Swaziland	8.16	102	Africa	Southern Africa	2013
Qatar	8.10	181	Asia	Western Asia	2015
Iraq	8.0	2,628	Asia	Western Asia	2012	notes
Guadeloupe (France)	7.90	36	Americas	Caribbean	2009
Pakistan	7.81	13,846	Asia	Southern Asia	2012	notes
Comoros	7.60	60	Africa	Eastern Africa	2015
Ethiopia	7.60	7,552	Africa	Eastern Africa	2015
Grenada	7.52	8	Americas	Caribbean	2014
Kiribati	7.50	8	Oceania	Micronesia	2012
Eritrea	7.46	390	Africa	Eastern Africa	2015
Senegal	7.30	1,105	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Mongolia	7.23	214	Asia	Eastern Asia	2015
Peru	7.16	2,247	Americas	South America	2015
Tanzania	7.01	3,746	Africa	Eastern Africa	2015
Laos	6.87	467	Asia	South-Eastern Asia	2015
Djibouti	6.77	60	Africa	Eastern Africa	2015
Zimbabwe	6.74	981	Africa	Eastern Africa	2012
Yemen	6.67	1,703	Asia	Western Asia	2013
Turks and Caicos Islands (UK)	6.61	2	Americas	Caribbean	2009
Afghanistan	6.55	1,948	Asia	Southern Asia	2012	notes
Argentina	6.53	2,837	Americas	South America	2015
Sudan	6.45	2,596	Africa	Northern Africa	2015	notes
Bermuda (UK)	6.45	4	Americas	Northern America	2015
Benin	6.01	654	Africa	Western Africa	2015
Lithuania	5.98	172	Europe	Northern Europe	2015
Mayotte (France)	5.93	12	Africa	Eastern Africa	2009
Cameroon	5.93	1,385	Africa	Middle Africa	2015
Zambia	5.85	814	Africa	Eastern Africa	2010
Kenya	5.75	2,648	Africa	Eastern Africa	2015
Somalia	5.56	599	Africa	Eastern Africa	2015	notes
Kyrgyzstan	5.12	304	Asia	Central Asia	2015
United States	4.88	15,696	Americas	Northern America	2015

 

LOL classic pro gun deflection tactic. Why are you comparing the USA's murder rates with 2nd and 3rd world countries? The USA is a FIRST world country so only a fair measure of murder rates for the USA is to compare them to countries like them. Funny thing is when I discuss the topic of guns to very conservative Republicans they seem to throw out this same excuse I hear them say "Well at least we're not ..........(Throw in some random 2nd/3rd world country)"