'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[Sonea 138]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Do you think your state's laws are as restrictive as Canadian firearm laws though? I lived in Canada for 22 years and I saw one non collector handgun. Lots of rifles though.

 

  

Its a bit apples to oranges between my state and canada. My states firearm safety certificate process is easier than your license process. On the other hand, Ar15s in a standard config are illegal here, where as you can get one on a restricted license. Where you have a 28 day waiting period for a handgun, I have a 10 day waiting period, plus I am then banned from buying another handgun for 30 days. Whereas you can buy a broad range of models of handguns, I am restricted to a narrow range that must be on an approved roster.

 

I don't think canada has ammo background checks whereas my state does.  Also Canada doesn't register long guns where as my state does.

[CaliCat 3,957]

1 hour ago, IDWAF said:

 I’m certain you can find the FBI and CDC sites fairly easily without my help.  But what the heck, I’m not busy...

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-4.xls

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/expanded-offense

 

Thanks!

 

Interesting count. Not too far off the gun violence site.

 

Weapons	2012	2013	2014	2015	2016
Total	12,888	12,253	12,270	13,750	15,070
Total firearms:	8,897	8,454	8,312	9,778	11,004
Handguns	6,404	5,782	5,673	6,569	7,105
Rifles	298	285	258	258	374
Shotguns	310	308	264	272	262
Other guns	116	123	93	177	186

[jayjayj 571]

9 hours ago, Póg mo said:

Obviously it's not law abiding gun owners, now is it?

Which is exactly what I said the original post you quoted.  You still don't have a point.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 hours ago, CaliCat said:

 

Thanks!

 

Interesting count. Not too far off the gun violence site.

 

Weapons	2012	2013	2014	2015	2016
Total	12,888	12,253	12,270	13,750	15,070
Total firearms:	8,897	8,454	8,312	9,778	11,004
Handguns	6,404	5,782	5,673	6,569	7,105
Rifles	298	285	258	258	374
Shotguns	310	308	264	272	262
Other guns	116	123	93	177	186

Not too far?  Weren’t your link stats near 13,000?  Above they are in the 8-9K, minus 2016.  The only real issue with the FBI and CDC stats is that you have to wait a year or so to get them.  But I feel they are more accurate, or at least non-partisan.  Can’t find it right now, but I think when you look up guns as a cause of death overall, they rank somewhere near 150 on the leading cause list.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

 

[Póg mo 1,749]

3 hours ago, jayjayj said:

Which is exactly what I said the original post you quoted.  You still don't have a point.

You tried to turn this discussion into gun owners vs the rest type discussion, by trying to imply that some people had it in for gun owners, when you said that law abiding gun owners were not the problem. I simply pointed out that yes, by definition law abiding gun owners were not the problem. Honestly, I don't why you seem to be having so much difficulty, unless of course you are trying to be obtuse?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

38 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

You tried to turn this discussion into gun owners vs the rest type discussion, by trying to imply that some people had it in for gun owners, when you said that law abiding gun owners were not the problem. I simply pointed out that yes, by definition law abiding gun owners were not the problem. Honestly, I don't why you seem to be having so much difficulty, unless of course you are trying to be obtuse?

At the risk of answering incorrectly for jay... imagine being a legal gun owner.  For years, on forums and social media, you are constantly railed against for your views on gun ownership and control. I think after a while, you just assume that everyone who isn't on your side is totally against your right to own guns.  I know that's how I feel sometimes, and mis-read others' posts.

 

Not at all saying you did that, I doubt you did.  But many do.  

 

I do like that with a handful of exceptions here, we mostly agree that there is a problem, something needs to be done (but no one knows WHAT), and more importantly, lawful gun owners are not the problem.

 

In addition to other ideas I have read here, I think because straw purchases are a pretty big portion of the problem, that a life-long ban on buying guns should be the punishment.  Or maybe 10 years, like with immigration fraud.  Of course, this requires catching the straw buyer, and subsequently entering their name into the prohibited database.

[CaliCat 3,957]

3 hours ago, IDWAF said:

Not too far?  Weren’t your link stats near 13,000?  Above they are in the 8-9K, minus 2016.  The only real issue with the FBI and CDC stats is that you have to wait a year or so to get them.  But I feel they are more accurate, or at least non-partisan.  Can’t find it right now, but I think when you look up guns as a cause of death overall, they rank somewhere near 150 on the leading cause list.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

 

 

Yes, the figures I had were on the 13,000 mark, whereas your link puts them at 15,000. It suggests that we have a problem with gun violence in this country.

[jayjayj 571]

1 hour ago, Póg mo said:

You tried to turn this discussion into gun owners vs the rest type discussion, by trying to imply that some people had it in for gun owners, when you said that law abiding gun owners were not the problem. I simply pointed out that yes, by definition law abiding gun owners were not the problem. Honestly, I don't why you seem to be having so much difficulty, unless of course you are trying to be obtuse?

I didn't try to do anything.  You are projecting.  I simply stated we have a mental health problem and a criminal behavior problem in America.  We do not have a law abiding gun owner problem in America.  All three of those statements are facts and all are rather easy to understand.  

 

Any attempt to restrict lawful gun ownership is a direct attack on lawful gun owners.  You can spin as much as you want, but when you say gun control, you are talking about limiting a person's rights to lawfully own guns and eventually removing all guns from law abiding gun owners.  Criminals don't care about your laws, they never have and they never will.

 

We need to properly enforce the gun laws that are currently on the books.  Start prosecuting every single person who lies on purchase forms when they attempt to purchase a gun and lock them up.  Fix the mental health care system.  Create and enforce harsher sentences for violent crimes, especially those involving weapons of any kind.  Stop letting violent criminals out of prison early.  There are many things that should be done to fix the actual problems we have, but limiting lawful gun ownership isn't one of them.

 

In the end it doesn't matter, because our gun ownership rights are enshrined in the Constitution and you won't be changing that in my lifetime.  Luckily, we also have the NRA to push back on cooky gun control schemes, like a gun ownership registry with yearly inspections.  Gun owners know what happens after nationwide gun registries are created, nationwide gun confiscation.  

[smilesammich 10,727]

another tide seems to be turning..

 

Quote

Among voters who said they supported Donald Trump in last year’s election, 46 percent are in favor of stricter gun laws and 48 percent are opposed.

A 55 percent majority of gun owners back new restrictions, while 41 percent oppose them.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/11/gun-control-vegas-polls-243647

[Boiler 45,884]

6 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

another tide seems to be turning..

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/11/gun-control-vegas-polls-243647

As has been said there is the Constitutional Amendment process.

 

Have at it.

[jayjayj 571]

5 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

another tide seems to be turning..

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/11/gun-control-vegas-polls-243647

More Americans support protecting gun rights -

 

"And given a choice between protecting the right of Americans to own guns and limiting gun ownership, 47 percent think it’s more important to protect gun rights, while slightly fewer — 42 percent — say limiting gun ownership is more important.

Among Republican voters, 70 percent say it’s more important to protect gun rights, compared with 23 percent who say limiting gun ownership is more important. A quarter of Democrats think it’s more important to protect gun rights, while 63 percent lean toward limiting gun ownership. Independents tilt toward protecting gun rights, 49 percent to 36 percent.

Voters with at least one gun in the household think it’s more important to protect gun rights — by a ratio of more than 2-to-1, 66 percent to 27 percent. But a 51 percent majority of voters without guns in the home think it’s more important to limit gun ownership."

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

As has been said there is the Constitutional Amendment process.

 

Have at it.

thanks for your blessings!

[Boiler 45,884]

Just now, smilesammich said:

thanks for your blessings!

I am not religious.

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

More Americans support protecting gun rights -

 

"And given a choice between protecting the right of Americans to own guns and limiting gun ownership, 47 percent think it’s more important to protect gun rights, while slightly fewer — 42 percent — say limiting gun ownership is more important.

Among Republican voters, 70 percent say it’s more important to protect gun rights, compared with 23 percent who say limiting gun ownership is more important. A quarter of Democrats think it’s more important to protect gun rights, while 63 percent lean toward limiting gun ownership. Independents tilt toward protecting gun rights, 49 percent to 36 percent.

Voters with at least one gun in the household think it’s more important to protect gun rights — by a ratio of more than 2-to-1, 66 percent to 27 percent. But a 51 percent majority of voters without guns in the home think it’s more important to limit gun ownership."

the only people who put up a fuss about making moves to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people are afraid their guns are going to be taken away. many gun owners in america realize that this isn't the goal.

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I am not religious.

gesundheit!

[jayjayj 571]

Just now, smilesammich said:

the only people who put up a fuss about making moves to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people are afraid their guns are going to be taken away. many gun owners in america realize that this isn't the goal.

Most gun owners know that is absolutely the goal.  You do too.  You just don't have the guts to admit it.