'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

A great example in red herring.

 

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/659/03/

 

 

Red Herring: This is a diversionary tactic that avoids the key issues, often by avoiding opposing arguments rather than addressing them. Example:

The level of mercury in seafood may be unsafe, but what will fishers do to support their families?

 

 

 

 

It’s no more a red herring than the link you posted.  You may not like the breakdown, because it isn’t as sensational, but the truth is there are less than 20 people per year since 1966 killed in mass shootings.  

 

I’m not trying to say that’s acceptable, mind you.  1 dead person is too many.  But I don’t see 20 dead per year as an epidemic.  Do YOU think it’s an epidemic of astonishing proportions?

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

8 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

It’s no more a red herring than the link you posted.  You may not like the breakdown, because it isn’t as sensational, but the truth is there are less than 20 people per year since 1966 killed in mass shootings.  

 

I’m not trying to say that’s acceptable, mind you.  1 dead person is too many.  But I don’t see 20 dead per year as an epidemic.  Do YOU think it’s an epidemic of astonishing proportions?

No other country has more than 46 million gunsor 18 mass shooters.

The United States has 270 million guns and had

90 mass shooters from 1966 to 2012.

 No other country has more than 46 million guns or 18 mass shooters.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Il Mango Dulce

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Here’s where I see a large part of the hypocrisy coming into play.  

 

We are told on a regular basis that terrorism isn’t something we need to be concerned with by many liberals because it happens so infrequently.  Over a span of years, I would agree that it’s true.  There are approximately 200 deaths per year by terrorism in the US since 2001. 

 

But here you are, trying to say we need to get all worked up over 20 deaths per year, because GUNS.  Especially those BLACK guns.

 

That is not a red herring my friend.  Those are real statistics.

Edited November 8, 2017 by IDWAF

[Sonea 138]

4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Here’s where I see a large part of the hypocrisy coming into play.  

 

We are told on a regular basis that terrorism isn’t something we need to be concerned with by many liberals because it happens so infrequently.  Over a span of years, I would agree that it’s true.  There are approximately 200 deaths per year by terrorism in the US since 2001. 

 

But here you are, trying to say we need to get all worked up over 20 deaths per year, because GUNS.  Especially those BLACK guns.

 

That is not a red herring my friend.  Those are real statistics.

200 Deaths post 9/11 per year? Can you post a link? That seems awfully high.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

8 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Here’s where I see a large part of the hypocrisy coming into play.  

 

We are told on a regular basis that terrorism isn’t something we need to be concerned with by many liberals because it happens so infrequently.  Over a span of years, I would agree that it’s true.  There are approximately 200 deaths per year by terrorism in the US since 2001. 

 

But here you are, trying to say we need to get all worked up over 20 deaths per year, because GUNS.  Especially those BLACK guns.

 

That is not a red herring my friend.  Those are real statistics.

 

   There have been 112 deaths due to mass shootings so far this year, and 75 in 2016. Where does the 20 deaths per year figure come from?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, Sonea said:

200 Deaths post 9/11 per year? Can you post a link? That seems awfully high.

That was counting the 3,000 folks on 9/11.  I just added up all the numbers since 2001.  Had I dropped all the way to 1970, it would have been a more accurate comparison, but I was in a hurry.  I would imagine going back that far, the number would drop to 120 per year or so.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

[JimandChristy 1,689]

Classic diversion tactics, mention anything but guns. Compare gun crime/fatalities in other first world countries the USA is very much an outlier. Why? Not because of mental health, not because of break down in society, but because of how easy/available it is to get a gun in this country.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, JimandChristy said:

Classic diversion tactics, mention anything but guns. Compare gun crime/fatalities in other first world countries the USA is very much an outlier. Why? Not because of mental health, not because of break down in society, but because of how easy/available it is to get a gun in this country.

Then why wasn’t this the case prior to 1966?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

12 minutes ago, Sonea said:

200 Deaths post 9/11 per year? Can you post a link? That seems awfully high.

Much to my chagrin, I just noticed that column already had a total for me.  Silly me...

 

So 3662 people in 46 years, more like 79 people per year.  Thanks for keeping me honest.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

11 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   There have been 112 deaths due to mass shootings so far this year, and 75 in 2016. Where does the 20 deaths per year figure come from?

974 victims of mass murders in the US since 1966.

Edited November 8, 2017 by IDWAF

[Steeleballz 7,550]

Just now, IDWAF said:

974 mass murders in the US since 1966.

 

   Was there a reason to start with 1966, or was it arbitrary?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

   Was there a reason to start with 1966, or was it arbitrary?

I think that was the first recorded one in the article I read.  Not sure.  I didn’t pick it, just went with the numbers given.  WIth my luck tonight, it’s probably wrong as well...

Edited November 8, 2017 by IDWAF

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

I think that was the first recorded one in the article I read.  Not sure.  I didn’t pick it, just went with the numbers given.

 

  Ahh, OK. I think it's trending upward in recent years at any rate.

 

  I did post about the NRA's 1971 policy shift on gun control earlier, but all I got in response was a link to the NRA membership page.

[CaliCat 3,957]

8 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

974 victims of mass murders in the US since 1966.

Here are the numbers for 2017, with archival reference for past year.

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

 

in 2017 over 52,000 incidents and over 13,000 deaths, not including 22,000 suicides.

 

No other first world country even gets close.

Edited November 8, 2017 by CaliCat

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

Here are the numbers for 2017, with archival reference for past year.

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

 

in 2017 over 52,000 incidents and over 13,000 deaths, not including 22,000 suicides.

 

No other first world country even gets close.

Personally, I don’t use their numbers.  I prefer the FBI and CDC.  And my reply to NutsOSteele was about mass murders, the topic at hand.

Edited November 8, 2017 by IDWAF