'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[Daisy.Chain 317]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:05 PM, Boiler said:

Did not somebody get him on the way out? Must admit the lack of a CC holder worried me too.

I think I read that a nearby neighbor grabbed a gun and fired back, and that made him leave. They weren't sure if the neighbor hit him or not, but shortly after he left he drove off the road and was found dead.

[Sonea 138]

4 hours ago, yuna628 said:

 

And... can the gun owners here please explain to me how he was not licensed to carry a firearm in the state of Texas, but still managed to obtain several, 'legally' over the years in Texas? If a license is required, how can one buy it to begin with? He does not seem to have obtained them from shady sources either.

I saw IDWAF mention his state.

 

In my state you need a Firearm Safety Certificate. Its acquired by taking an exam and is good for 3 years. Its not a license. In my state, the only way to get a carry permit is to either live in a rural area where sheriffs give them out or pay off your sherriff or be a political donor etc. The carry license is irrelevant to the purchase of a gun, it allows you to conceal it on your person.

 

And in the case of this person, he acquired them "illegally". Problem is the Airforce failed to put his info in the database which would have stopped his purchases. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Isn’t my state, Sonea, I am just familiar with the rules in GA because I tried to purchase a couple of guns there recently, knowing I wasn’t legal to do so, and was shut down pretty quickly by the gun stores.  I did it as a test to see just how “easy it is to buy a gun if one wants to”. The controls in place worked as they were designed.

 

As for the shooter... do we know he got the guns illegally?  Or were they perhaps purchased before his domestic violence charges?

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

14 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Isn’t my state, Sonea, I am just familiar with the rules in GA because I tried to purchase a couple of guns there recently, knowing I wasn’t legal to do so, and was shut down pretty quickly by the gun stores.  I did it as a test to see just how “easy it is to buy a gun if one wants to”. The controls in place worked as they were designed.

 

As for the shooter... do we know he got the guns illegally?  Or were they perhaps purchased before his domestic violence charges?

Well he did obtain them legally,  but it was illegal for him to buy, if that doesn't sound crazy. He went thru the legal steps it just that the Air Force failed to enter all his conviction in the database.

In other words the laws did not work because our govt failed to perform. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

Well he did obtain them legally,  but it was illegal for him to buy, if that doesn't sound crazy. He went thru the legal steps it just that the Air Force failed to enter all his conviction in the database.

In other words the laws did not work because our govt failed to perform. 

Ok. I knew about the conviction, which would prevent his purchasing guns (had it been reported), but wasn’t sure if the reports had yet disclosed WHEN he bought the guns.  He might have owned them for 20 years for all we know.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Just now, IDWAF said:

Ok. I knew about the conviction, which would prevent his purchasing guns (had it been reported), but wasn’t sure if the reports had yet disclosed WHEN he bought the guns.  He might have owned them for 20 years for all we know.

Recent 

[Sonea 138]

34 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Isn’t my state, Sonea, I am just familiar with the rules in GA because I tried to purchase a couple of guns there recently, knowing I wasn’t legal to do so, and was shut down pretty quickly by the gun stores.  I did it as a test to see just how “easy it is to buy a gun if one wants to”. The controls in place worked as they were designed.

 

As for the shooter... do we know he got the guns illegally?  Or were they perhaps purchased before his domestic violence charges?

He bought them after, and he broke the law by putting false information on form 4473.

[CaliCat 3,957]

5 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Shooter reportedly once escaped from a mental hospital while facing his criminal charges for domestic abuse and harming a child, also included threatening his superior officers and sneaking weapons onto base. Cool.

 

I'm also going to point to his social media page, which highlighted one of his gun purchases. His 'friends' apparently thought of no concerns about it, despite knowing his history? He was also on psychological medications during his childhood and reportedly once dated a 13 year old when he was an adult (!!!??)

 

And... can the gun owners here please explain to me how he was not licensed to carry a firearm in the state of Texas, but still managed to obtain several, 'legally' over the years in Texas? If a license is required, how can one buy it to begin with? He does not seem to have obtained them from shady sources either.

 

Here is data that supports what millions off Americans have already realized.

 

What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer

 

When the world looks at the United States, it sees a land of exceptions: a time-tested if noisy democracy, a crusader in foreign policy, an exporter of beloved music and film.

But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles America’s fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?

Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

 

 

What Explains Mass Shootings

The top-line numbers suggest a correlation that, on further investigation, grows only clearer.

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American, according to a 2015 study by Adam Lankford, a professor at the University of Alabama.

Continue reading the main story

 

 

Adjusted for population, only Yemen has a higher rate of mass shootings among countries with more than 10 million people — a distinction Mr. Lankford urged to avoid outliers. Yemen has the world’s second-highest rate of gun ownership after the United States.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by CaliCat

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, Sonea said:

He bought them after, and he broke the law by putting false information on form 4473.

Gotcha.  Thanks to you and NB for the info.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

43 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Isn’t my state, Sonea, I am just familiar with the rules in GA because I tried to purchase a couple of guns there recently, knowing I wasn’t legal to do so, and was shut down pretty quickly by the gun stores.  I did it as a test to see just how “easy it is to buy a gun if one wants to”. The controls in place worked as they were designed.

 

As for the shooter... do we know he got the guns illegally?  Or were they perhaps purchased before his domestic violence charges?

We know it was against the law for him to have the weapons,  we don't know if he would get them if type DOD had done their job. That man should have been locked up.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

Here is data that supports what millions off Americans have already realized.

 

What Explains U.S. Mass Shootings? International Comparisons Suggest an Answer

 

When the world looks at the United States, it sees a land of exceptions: a time-tested if noisy democracy, a crusader in foreign policy, an exporter of beloved music and film.

But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles America’s fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?

Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

 

 

What Explains Mass Shootings

The top-line numbers suggest a correlation that, on further investigation, grows only clearer.

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American, according to a 2015 study by Adam Lankford, a professor at the University of Alabama.

Continue reading the main story

 

 

Adjusted for population, only Yemen has a higher rate of mass shootings among countries with more than 10 million people — a distinction Mr. Lankford urged to avoid outliers. Yemen has the world’s second-highest rate of gun ownership after the United States.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yet, somehow, we happen to have less gun homicides every year than abortions.  Abortions outweigh gun homicides by 830X.  

 

Traffic fatalities are 4.7X the gun homicide rate.

 

But you wanna talk about mass shootings?  I posted that above.  Less than 20 per year.  Bathtub drownings number around 80.  

[-Trinity- 513]

7 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

That man should have been locked up.

Well, apparently he was but he escaped. The problem is that criminals can get their hands on weapons no matter how gun restricted a country is.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Beachlover

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

We know it was against the law for him to have the weapons,  we don't know if he would get them if type DOD had done their job. That man should have been locked up.

I think I read he was locked up at one point, but escaped a mental institution?  It seems the infrastructure surrounding mental instability and domestic violence failed miserably.  As did his family and friends.

[CaliCat 3,957]

4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

And yet, somehow, we happen to have less gun homicides every year than abortions.  Abortions outweigh gun homicides by 830X.  

 

Traffic fatalities are 4.7X the gun homicide rate.

 

But you wanna talk about mass shootings?  I posted that above.  Less than 20 per year.  Bathtub drownings number around 80.  

 

A great example in red herring.

 

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/659/03/

 

 

Red Herring: This is a diversionary tactic that avoids the key issues, often by avoiding opposing arguments rather than addressing them. Example:

The level of mercury in seafood may be unsafe, but what will fishers do to support their families?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by CaliCat

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

17 minutes ago, Sonea said:

He bought them after, and he broke the law by putting false information on form 4473.

Good point.