'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[Ban Hammer 13,469]

35 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Correction : he clearly used a military style weapon with a projectile speed 3x that of a handgun and vastly superior the reloading speed and several clips of ammo which he exhausted. It would still he a tragedy had he entered with a handgun, but some of those souls would be alive.

3x the speed of a handgun?  um no.  9mm runs about 1300+ fps, the 5.56 around 3100 fps.
(also imo this comparison is worthless as the 9mm slug weighs more than the 5.56)

they are not clips   

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, Ban Hammer said:

3x the speed of a handgun?  um no.  9mm runs about 1300+ fps, the 5.56 around 3100 fps.
(also imo this comparison is worthless as the 9mm slug weighs more than the 5.56)

they are not clips   

I didn’t want to get that detailed in my critique of his comments earlier, felt that was too deep for the discussion at hand.  But of course, you are right (I was using a .40 as a muzzle velocity comparison, BTW).

[Ban Hammer 13,469]

29 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

He could have got it at any gun fair. We do agree that the federal government has failed on gun control since 1966, when the first mass shooting took place in Texas.

flawed assumption.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Saw these two posts online a bit ago, and thought they fit the topic:

Just watched the CBS news report on what happened in Sutherland Springs TX. 
The way they described the town made my think of my home town. The said it only had a caution light, post office, small stores and Churches, no school. Reminds me of Chancellor Alabama. I can’t imagine how I would feel if some attacked my church like that even though I have not been there in many years. 
I’m not blaming guns for this but....... some of his friends or family KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did not need to have them. People in general need to pay more attention to each other. That is the only way I can think to somehow slow this stuff down. You can’t take the guns away. So as individuals pay more attention to what’s going on. Someone saw this coming.

 

 

True, but this plays out all the time and 99% of the time people do step in or law enforcement does stop it. You only know about it when one doesn’t get stopped. Pure evil and it’s not going away anytime soon.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

And in spite of that great documentation, and those regulation changes, medical errors continue to rise every year.  While gun homicides are on a downward trend.

 

But in the media, all we hear is that we have a gun control problem.  We need more gun control.  It’s a huge problem in the US.  Where are all the news stories telling us that you are 20 times more likely to die by going to a hospital or doctor’s office than to church or a concert?

 

People with good intentions are killing more and more every year, while the criminal element that takes life for granted and take lives on purpose is a tiny portion of that.  But look at this thread, and the media coverage of the shootings...

 

     

 

     IMO, medical errors are not continuing to rise. They have probably always been at this level and likely higher. The system currently in place is just detecting what used to get swept under the rug. The 210000 figure is an estimate by the way, the actual number of deaths is not tracked. 

 

    What is your point here. We should ignore gun violence because more people die in hospitals? We should do what is in our means to make both safer. 

    

 

  

[CaliCat 3,957]

19 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

3x the speed of a handgun?  um no.  9mm runs about 1300+ fps, the 5.56 around 3100 fps.
(also imo this comparison is worthless as the 9mm slug weighs more than the 5.56)

they are not clips   

 

17 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

I didn’t want to get that detailed in my critique of his comments earlier, felt that was too deep for the discussion at hand.  But of course, you are right (I was using a .40 as a muzzle velocity comparison, BTW).

 

Deep and off topic, to say the least. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

25 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

I recognize we have a mental health problem in America.  I also recognize we have a criminal behavior problem in America.  We do not have a law abiding gun owner problem in America.  

 

      There are 8000+ murders each year due to fire arms. Either some of those gun owners were law abiding at some point or we have a huge number of illgal gun owners in this country. Either way, we should address the issue instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

[CaliCat 3,957]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

IMO, medical errors are not continuing to rise. They have probably always been at this level and likely higher. The system currently in place is just detecting what used to get swept under the rug. The 210000 figure is an estimate by the way, the actual number of deaths is not tracked. 

 

  What is your point here. We should ignore gun violence because more people die in hospitals? We should do what is in our means to make both safer. 

   

 

The predictable straw man argument about physicians, manicures, and other professionals. LOL. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, CaliCat said:

 

The predictable straw man argument about physicians, manicures, and other professionals. LOL. 

 

  Even as a strawman, it doesn't work. Ask anyone in the medical community about preventable deaths and they will admit it's a major issue and the way it was handle in the past was inadequate. One industry has accepted that they need to change the way they do things, and actively tries to identify where the problems occur. Change will come because of that.

 

  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

 

Deep and off topic, to say the least. 

No, they are responses to YOUR off topic comment is all.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

13 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     

 

     IMO, medical errors are not continuing to rise. They have probably always been at this level and likely higher. The system currently in place is just detecting what used to get swept under the rug. The 210000 figure is an estimate by the way, the actual number of deaths is not tracked. 

 

    What is your point here. We should ignore gun violence because more people die in hospitals? We should do what is in our means to make both safer. 

    

 

  

Well, online numbers would argue with you.  90,000 (years ago) is less than 250,000 (now).  Now I grant you, reporting today could be more accurate, but we have no way of knowing, really.

 

My point is that there is an epidemic of medical errors killing us.  As in at least TWENTY to TWENTY FIVE times worse than criminals with guns.  Yet the outrage is towards guns.  

[Boiler 45,885]

1 minute ago, IDWAF said:

Well, online numbers would argue with you.  90,000 (years ago) is less than 250,000 (now).  Now I grant you, reporting today could be more accurate, but we have no way of knowing, really.

 

My point is that there is an epidemic of medical errors killing us.  As in at least TWENTY to TWENTY FIVE times worse than criminals with guns.  Yet the outrage is towards guns.  

Yet again, this is about feelings not logic.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

11 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

The predictable straw man argument about physicians, manicures, and other professionals. LOL. 

It’s not a straw man argument.  It is a fact that we don’t talk about medical errors much today.  But we beat the guns to death every time someone dies.  

 

Between the Vegas murders and the Texas murders, 84 people were killed by homicidal maniacs.  In that same time frame, around 23,000 people were killed in hospitals.  Did you hear about a single one of those 23,000 being killed?

[CaliCat 3,957]

11 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Even as a strawman, it doesn't work. Ask anyone in the medical community about preventable deaths and they will admit it's a major issue and the way it was handle in the past was inadequate. One industry has accepted that they need to change the way they do things, and actively tries to identify where the problems occur. Change will come because of that.

 

  

 

 

It's a hybrid straw man-red herring non-starter argument. LOL. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

48 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

3x the speed of a handgun?  um no.  9mm runs about 1300+ fps, the 5.56 around 3100 fps.
(also imo this comparison is worthless as the 9mm slug weighs more than the 5.56)

they are not clips   

you think those dead kids care what they are called?