'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

 

 

    This is all true, but it highlights part of the ongoing problem. Several mass shootings have found mental health issues or violence in the perpetrators background. A systematic failure indicates the system doesn't work.

 

    Politicians don't want to have a discussion on any aspect of the system because it amounts to political suicide to do so. So we go around in circles. My condolences in advance to the next group of victims, because it seems that's about all we're willing to do as a country. Offer our sympathy and move on.

 

or because they immediately start hollering about magazine sizes and assault looking weapons, which are not the problem, as Chicago races toward 600 mostly hand gun deaths every year 

[jayjayj 571]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

 

 

    This is all true, but it highlights part of the ongoing problem. Several mass shootings have found mental health issues or violence in the perpetrators background. A systematic failure indicates the system doesn't work.

 

    Politicians don't want to have a discussion on any aspect of the system because it amounts to political suicide to do so. So we go around in circles. My condolences in advance to the next group of victims, because it seems that's about all we're willing to do as a country. Offer our sympathy and move on.

We have a mental health problem and criminal behavior problem in America.  We don't a law abiding gun owner problem in America.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

Ok then, counter arguing your gun control argument is also fair game. 

 

   Yes, definitely counter the argument. I don't think you need to attack feminism or liberalism to do that.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    FOr ~ 8000 people a year, the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. 

The second amendment isn’t killing people, is it?  I have the right to own a gun granted by that document, and I have never killed anyone.  I think your premise is a false one.

 

Medical malpractice in the US are now the third leading cause of death.  But not even a blip on the radar.  As many as 250,000, or 20 times the gun homicide rate.  The only difference is the intent behind the person causing the death.  But... GUN CONTOL!

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

5 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

He could have got it at any gun fair. We do agree that the federal government has failed on gun control since 1966, when the first mass shooting took place in Texas.

A Gun Fair ???? LOL

[CaliCat 3,957]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

A Gun Fair ???? LOL

 

It's where people who go to computer school buy their guns.

 

Is that Lionel Richie in the background?

Edited November 7, 2017 by CaliCat

[-Trinity- 513]

Just now, jayjayj said:

So we should censor everything about every attack?  

I don't know about censoring but you can't deny that a lot of this idiots tend to have some "idol".

If you are leaving out the names, isn't that a form of censor too?

Who determines what will be made public and what not?

 

 

[jayjayj 571]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

its a place where you go to learn bout computing and what not. Here it's bubbas school of computing and truck lifting 

 

Best post of the day!

[yuna628 9,696]

16 hours ago, IDWAF said:

You DO realize that guns have been a part of America since day 1, right?  It's how "the West was won".  But respect for human life in generations past was far greater, I think.  

 

Guns are simply the (weapon/tool) of choice.  The person MAKING the choice is at fault.  I find it hard to believe you can't see that.

 

(I am NOT saying there isn't a problem that needs addressed, BTW)

You know.... I'd be inclined to believe the respect for human life thing being greater in the past.... except... well, history is the big proof it's not really true at all. Not just in American history either, but world history too. I think the problem always was we don't have respect for human life. We pretended we did from the get-go, while hypocritically behaving in ways that prove the truth. I know there's people that look back in a sort of nostalgia at an era that they perceive was innocent and polite... but there was a seedy underbelly even then. These days, the bad persons have greater access to devices that can accomplish their goal without giving too much thought about it. Instead of being 'outliers' they have access to others opinions that make them feel validated.

 

Yes a gun is a tool. But we need to acknowledge that it is a tool, that has one purpose - to kill, injure, or threaten to do one or the other to a subject. That makes it a very attractive tool to irresponsible, evil, terrorist, insane, and stupid excuses for human beings. We seem to do very little to prevent guns from being in the hands of persons that are irresponsible AND those that are insane, evil, or bad. I also kind of find it disturbing that whenever a shooting happens, the NRA as an organization seems kind of tone deaf. I have seen political talking heads simply say the answer is more guns. Who lobbies those talking heads? Who stands to make a greater profit over more people owning guns.

 

Holding a gun does not make me feel more safe or powerful. I choose other methods of self defense. But I do feel we are reaching a point in society where we cannot say gun-free zones in the most vulnerable of places. Schools have a responsibility to protect children. Unarmed security 'monitors' don't fill me with confidence. But there are always going to be soft targets...

 

The 2nd states ''well regulated''. I don't believe our founding fathers envisioned where we are now. I've reviewed hundreds of quotes about guns and our founders, in many of them they mention well regulated, well trained, properly formed, and responsible even. A good bit talk about gun ownership is in the context of use in the time of uprising against a tyranny government.... even if every American owned one firearm, we'd still be outgunned by our government as it functions today. But strangely enough, we've had our own rebellions against perceived 'tyranny governments' - and all failed even without modern weapon tech vs well-armed citizenry. It also talked about the use of firearms via militias to protect the people against tyrannical invading entities in the defense of a 'free State' rather than a standing Army. And I can get into the concept of why they didn't want a centralized standing Army vs a membership of a well-trained militia. They also acknowledged the right for a man to protect himself, but they may not have envisioned a scenario where one man with a gun could stand in a high-rise hotel and mow down hundreds of people (who even if they had weapons would have proved useless).

 

When the president says: if the good guy didn't have a gun then the killer could have shot more people.... we know this for a fact - if the bad guy didn't have a gun no one would be shot at all and we also know the good guy with the gun didn't prevent anyone from being shot in the first place. If someone is hell bent on killing 'soft targets' in a church, even if some inside might be armed, I really believe if they have the intent, they will still be successful at it too.

16 hours ago, Beachlover said:

And the question is, what is causing people to become mentally ill?

I hesitate to call this person mentally ill. I don't want to conflate mentally ill with those who are just evil. Do we consider sociopaths and terrorists mentally ill? Wishing that we as a nation could actually stop with the 'thoughts and prayers' and ''something something we should do something about mental health'' tropes and actually get onto being proactive with our mental health system to stop truly mentally ill from reaching a bad point AND start acknowledging that the persons who do mass shootings are a type of homegrown terrorists that deserve neither sympathy or mercy if they survive.

 

I believe that there is a strong link between those that have a history of domestic abuse and animal abuse (a crime which I still wish was treated more seriously) and those who are more likely to act on violent crimes with guns. This individual had both in his history. He only received a one-year sentence, when by law he should have received five. The judge in the case has a history of rather light sentences. I also think when it comes to mental health, the military has failed all veterans, even those that committed crimes.

15 hours ago, IDWAF said:

Social media and the internet.  There is a condition to fit everyone who is not comfortable with themselves. 

 

I don't think there are any more mentally unstable people today than 20 years ago.  But now we hear more about it, it is the "norm", and it's ok to "be different.  Glorified, actually.  "Back then", thinking about killing someone was normal, but held within.  Today, so many people are not only thinking it, but doing it, so it is becoming the new normal.

 

Just a theory.   Mine.  Have no data to back it up.

It is okay to be different. We are all different individuals. Social media and the internet give persons a voice to behave badly, express their rage, and find plenty of fuel for that rage. But we increasingly are not teaching our children that there are consequences to actions. Everything is me, me me... instead of teaching individual respect. We stay in bubbles. We don't find friends or listen to others even if it is an opinion different from ours. We no longer know how to communicate face to face. But we also remain too tolerant of persons who are 100% straight up crazy, evil, and harmful. Like I've said before.... I used to know some of the kids who thought Alex Jones was awesome when he first came on the scene. They came from broken homes, felt unloved and unwanted, that the government was oppressive, that their failing in school was just because the system was against them, that drugs could open their horizons and make them the next great thinker, that they were 'alphas' etc etc... and now those generation of kids have grown up... and it's scary. Men are not being raised to treat life with respect.... so they start out testing the limits of that rage on animals, women, children.. until they finally want slaughter. It's an ego-fueled high.

Edited November 7, 2017 by yuna628

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

He could have got it at any gun fair. We do agree that the federal government has failed on gun control since 1966, when the first mass shooting took place in Texas.

Sorry, but this is false information.  Ye know not of which ye speak.

[jayjayj 571]

Just now, Beachlover said:

I don't know about censoring but you can't deny that a lot of this idiots tend to have some "idol".

If you are leaving out the names, isn't that a form of censor too?

Who determines what will be made public and what not?

 

 

You leave out the names of individuals so they don't receive a level of personal fame.

 

You include their intentions so that the populace knows why they are being attacked and then they can make informed decisions about voting for politicians who will make an attempt to protect them.

[jayjayj 571]

4 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

It's where people who go to computer school buy their guns.

You mean computing school?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

The second amendment isn’t killing people, is it?  I have the right to own a gun granted by that document, and I have never killed anyone.  I think your premise is a false one.

 

Medical malpractice in the US are now the third leading cause of death.  But not even a blip on the radar.  As many as 250,000, or 20 times the gun homicide rate.  The only difference is the intent behind the person causing the death.  But... GUN CONTOL!

 

    Do you know how many regulations have been changed and are changing in the medical industry because of this? The clear difference, compared to 20 years ago, is that the medical industry is required to document everything, have a plan to asses problem areas, change systematic sources of error, and report issues to various levels of government. Hospitals that can't or won't comply will lose funding and ultimately close. 

 

   The first step in fixing something is recognizing the problem exists.  

[jayjayj 571]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Do you know how many regulations have been changed and are changing in the medical industry because of this? The clear difference, compared to 20 years ago, is that the medical industry is required to document everything, have a plan to asses problem areas, change systematic sources of error, and report issues to various levels of government. Hospitals that can't or won't comply will lose funding and ultimately close. 

 

   The first step in fixing something is recognizing the problem exists.  

I recognize we have a mental health problem in America.  I also recognize we have a criminal behavior problem in America.  We do not have a law abiding gun owner problem in America.  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

10 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Do you know how many regulations have been changed and are changing in the medical industry because of this? The clear difference, compared to 20 years ago, is that the medical industry is required to document everything, have a plan to asses problem areas, change systematic sources of error, and report issues to various levels of government. Hospitals that can't or won't comply will lose funding and ultimately close. 

 

   The first step in fixing something is recognizing the problem exists.  

And in spite of that great documentation, and those regulation changes, medical errors continue to rise every year.  While gun homicides are on a downward trend.

 

But in the media, all we hear is that we have a gun control problem.  We need more gun control.  It’s a huge problem in the US.  Where are all the news stories telling us that you are 20 times more likely to die by going to a hospital or doctor’s office than to church or a concert?

 

People with good intentions are killing more and more every year, while the criminal element that takes life for granted and take lives on purpose is a tiny portion of that.  But look at this thread, and the media coverage of the shootings...

Edited November 7, 2017 by IDWAF