Can foreign spouse file divorce on Conditional GC?

[Lemonslice 4,886]

1 hour ago, Chemist said:

 

If deportation is the only feasible way to relieve me of the obligations under the I-864 then I will pursue it.  Because at the moment, she is at risk of becoming a public charge.

 

You can't "pursue" deportation - you can report what you think of the situation, but you have very little weight in the decision to deport her.  Also, not public charge - your charge, you signed that affidavit of support.

[Chemist 2]

6 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I  have seen people with a lot less evidence and exes who were highly focused get approved, seems no issues here.

 

If you have evidence of fraud you have not mentioned it.

 

6 months since you started the thread, not in your hands, move on. 

I intend to move on.  And I was.

 

But then received the courtesy call from DHS and decided to report this here.  Is this normal procedure?  Has anybody experienced this?

 

Assuming she filed the waiver in Dec 2017 when the divorce was final, it will be about March of 2019 before it gets processed.  So I'm not waiting around for news about this.

 

But if I get another call, I'll report it here.

If they want testimony or a deposition, I'll report it here.

If my ex angrily contacts me about what happened, I'll report it here.

 

Otherwise, this is it!

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

Hmm. Ive re-read the entire thread (including my previous comments) and I have some thoughts/questions.

 

First- Yes this is a pro-immigrant board but I know I have personally helped previous USC members file fraud claims as well as challenged USC members who were trying to report fraud where there was none. So I consider myself unbiased.

 

Its rare to get a call back from USCIS. Meaning its not standard practice. It can happen and when it does its usually a sign they are seriously considering the evidence you sent. I do wonder what you included in your statement. Perhaps you are willing to share here or in pm? From previous user experience when USCIS is considering it fraud they reach out to the reporting spouse multiple times for clarification of statements and requesting or being open to receiving additional evidence. So my next question is what were you asked in the phone call? Did they advise you that you can submit more documents or just review your statement?

 

As for 'triggering her to need to ROC' - thats not how it works. She still can wait until the card is set to expire to apply for ROC or she can file now (or as early as Dec when the divorce was final). Its her choice when to file, she just needs to file by the time the card expires. 

 

What was the reason for the divorce? Specifically what grounds did she file under and get it granted?

 

As for the 864 it stays in effect for now and you should be concerned about her suing you for support based on it.

[Chemist 2]

6 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

You can't "pursue" deportation - you can report what you think of the situation, but you have very little weight in the decision to deport her.  Also, not public charge - your charge, you signed that affidavit of support.

Understood.

 

I meant that deportation was the result I was going for because then my obligations under the Affidavit of Support would cease.

 

[Boiler 45,658]

8 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

You can't "pursue" deportation - you can report what you think of the situation, but you have very little weight in the decision to deport her.  Also, not public charge - your charge, you signed that affidavit of support.

I missed that, she has of course a sponsor.

 

I have seen people say they have been called, thanked etc but never testify etc.

 

There have been a couple of cases who wee denied but there was hard evidence.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Boiler

[Chemist 2]

17 minutes ago, Damara said:

Hmm. Ive re-read the entire thread (including my previous comments) and I have some thoughts/questions.

 

First- Yes this is a pro-immigrant board but I know I have personally helped previous USC members file fraud claims as well as challenged USC members who were trying to report fraud where there was none. So I consider myself unbiased.

 

Its rare to get a call back from USCIS. Meaning its not standard practice. It can happen and when it does its usually a sign they are seriously considering the evidence you sent. I do wonder what you included in your statement. Perhaps you are willing to share here or in pm? From previous user experience when USCIS is considering it fraud they reach out to the reporting spouse multiple times for clarification of statements and requesting or being open to receiving additional evidence. So my next question is what were you asked in the phone call? Did they advise you that you can submit more documents or just review your statement?

 

As for 'triggering her to need to ROC' - thats not how it works. She still can wait until the card is set to expire to apply for ROC or she can file now (or as early as Dec when the divorce was final). Its her choice when to file, she just needs to file by the time the card expires. 

 

What was the reason for the divorce? Specifically what grounds did she file under and get it granted?

 

As for the 864 it stays in effect for now and you should be concerned about her suing you for support based on it.

There's a bit to unpack here and I'll try to be brief.

 

About the call from DHS:

The agent didn't ask me any questions.  Just said it was a courtesy call and that what I sent has been added to her file and that they will call again if there are any questions.  I asked if I can send more info if I had it and he said yes.  That was it.  I didn't expect to hear anything after I sent my info and evidence` but they called anyway.

 

About the divorce:

She claimed that the marriage was "irretrievably broken" in the divorce papers that I was served.  The best I can tell is that this is Florida's version of a no-fault divorce.  No claims of abuse or infidelity or anything like that.  

 

Submission to USCIS and ICE:

My mother and stepfather submitted an affidavit about us.  We lived with them for about a month when I was between jobs so they were able to observe us together.  We agreed beforehand that we wouldn't share with each other what was written in their affidavit as to avoid giving the impression that our testimonies were being influenced by the other.

 

I'm also aware that USCIS gets a lot of broken heart type of complaints so I tried to make my affidavit as fact based as possible and supported with documentation.

 

Basically, we were struggling financially in Florida.  There weren't many opportunities for jobs in my field.  I was working Uber while she was waitressing.  We were falling  behind on bills.  My car was in the process of being re-poed and about to lose items we had in storage.  I accepted a job near Chicago with salary $92k plus benefits.  Accept it or lose everything.  I had no choice.  I started the new job March 2017.  My ex stated that she didn't want to break the lease and will move up to Chicago when the lease ends on Nov 2017.  I couldn't convince her to move up earlier but she promised she would after the lease was up.

 

I have the signed offer letter with the start date and salary on it.  I also had my landlord put her name on the new lease for the apt near Chicago so that it was ready for her to sign when she moved here.  Both of these documents were submitted to USCIS to support the reason why I had to take this job and move and had the expectation that she will be joining me as promised.  She may have a lease with both of our names in Florida but I only lived there for three months and the offer letter and lease in chicago should prove that.

 

At the time I moved she didn't have her conditional green card yet.  That arrived around July 2017.  She only had a work authorization.  In the mean time I was paying bills such as the cell phone, electricity and gym membership and depositing some money into the joint checking to help with the rent.  I included the bank statements in my affidavit and highlighted the fact that I seemed to be the only one using it.  She would only write one check a month for rent.  She didn't use it for any other expenses and refused to deposit any more money then needed to cover the rent.  The landlord in Florida preferred checks.  Plus she would never tell me how much she was making so we can budget effectively and preferred to do a lot of things in cash  So I don't think there was a good faith effort to commingle finances despite the fact that we had a joint checking account.

 

The timing of the divorce occurred within months after receiving her conditional green card, right when the lease was about to expire and was expected for her to move up to Chicago and join me, and right after she had enough residency in Florida for the family courts to have jurisdiction.

 

The financial affidavit included in the divorce lists her occupation as an "entertainer" in gentleman's clubs making $2000/mo.  And has a monthly deficit of $540 so I don't think she'll be able to live without becoming a public charge.  I'm starting to think she was working this job without my knowledge when I was still living with her.

 

She also, took out a loan for beauty school Aug 2017 and opened a checking account in her name without my knowledge.

 

There's more but I think this covers the main point.  Nothing she was doing was illegal.  She may even have a right to do it.  But it seems to prove that she wasn't acting like somebody in a good faith marriage.  It was obvious to me that she was trying to establish herself in Florida without me and divorced at the earliest opportunity.  If it wasn't for me moving, she may have continued the charade until she got the permanent green card, but my move may have thrown a wrench in her plans.  Why didn't she move to Chicago and divorce me then?  Because she wanted to stay in Florida, she dreamed about Miami since she was a little girl.  I took her there for a honeymoon because of this.  Plus, if she was reading boards like this one, she might get the impression that the ROC was a cake walk, even when divorced.  But I also know that she is getting some coaching from her friends; people I never met, by the way.

 

Of course, USCIS will try and get her side of the story, send  an RFE and even interview her.  

 

I think her case is going to revolve around the question as to why she didn't move with me to Chicago.  I have a good reason to move (a job).  She had no good reason to stay in Florida if marriage was a priority with her.  So any agent doing his job will probably have questions about that.  Her success will depend on how she answers those questions and I think she'll probably screw it up.

 

Time will tell.

[Boiler 45,658]

You think they are going to run through your relationship?

 

You have not mentioned any evidence.

 

On the plus side $2k is well over the poverty level.

[Chemist 2]

12 minutes ago, Boiler said:

You think they are going to run through your relationship?

 

You have not mentioned any evidence.

 

On the plus side $2k is well over the poverty level.

You think they are going to run through your relationship?

 

How else would they determine a good faith marriage?

 

USCIS might be full of bureaucrats that rubberstamp everything,  That's possible.

 

But every law website I've seen states that the petitioner has the burden to prove a bonafide marriage.  Divorces happen for a variety of reasons but there should be evidence of trying to have a real marriage.

 

And I've even heard of a case where the foreign spouse was sending too much money home to her family and this triggered a denial.  Can't remember where I read this.  And in some cases, stokes interviews don't match up.  Whether or not they actually get sent back to their country might depend on the preponderance of other evidence that is submitted.

 

So i think there will be some "running through the relationship".

 

I also read that immigration cases are civil cases which implies a "preponderance of evidence standard" and not a "beyond reasonable doubt standard" as in criminal cases.  She doesn't even have a right to a lawyer, although she can retain one at her expense.

 

So I think they'll look at totality of evidence.  And she doesn't have much: a lease with both of our names for an apartment I didn't live in,  a joint checking account that she never used; and maybe the health insurance card I gave her.  She isn't even on the electric bill.  

 

They may rubber stamp this anyway.  But if they look closer, she will have some hard questions to answer.  And if the agent isn't convinced she is likely to be denied--a decision that can't be appealed.  She'll have to fight it in court.  Immigration court in Miami have decide about 40-50% of cases in the immigrants favor depending on the judge.  However, there's a judge in Pompano Beach that has only decided about 2% of cases in the immigrants favor.  Her luck at this point will depend on the judge and if she is too poor to afford an attorney then she is screwed.

 

 

 

[Going through 5,671]

46 minutes ago, Chemist said:

How else would they determine a good faith marriage?

 

One thing you have to remember, is that when you filed the K-1, you had to submit a good deal of evidence pertaining to a genuine relationship entered into with true intentions, and the future occurrence of a good faith marriage entered into once the K-1 was approved.

 

Another thing you have to remember, is that when you filed the AOS, both of you had to submit a mountain of evidence showing the marriage was entered into in good faith and with true intentions.   And evidence that showed a consistency in living in marital union (regardless of the different addresses later on, couples can still share a true marital union).

 

The two of you had to attend an interview, where you both swore this to be a true marriage, entered into in good faith and with true intentions, and submitted evidence of same.

 

Turning around now to claim that the marriage was entered into under false pretenses is going to be more difficult for you to prove given all the documentation you have submitted before....and much easier for her to prove that it was a true marriage when she entered into it.  

 

Unless you submitted concrete evidence showing a true intention of her marrying you just for a green card (which from what you have posted thus far, does not seem concrete but more speculation), that is how they are going to determine a good faith marriage.  

 

USCIS does not care about the reasons for a divorce, or that the marriage fell apart, how the relationship unraveled, or who was at fault.

Another mark in her favor is that she is the one who initiated divorce proceedings.  Foreigners who marry for sham reasons tend to not ask their USC spouse for a divorce before the conditions are removed.  Rather, they keep up the charade until their status is secured after the ROC is approved.

 

The adjudication for her ROC with a divorce waiver is based on whether she ENTERED the marriage with good intentions.  Doesn't matter if it fell apart later. And the two of you would have spent a lot of time over the prior AOS filing to prove this was the case.  

Edited April 17, 2018 by Going through

[Boiler 45,658]

I always wondered why they have such a process, but them some do go though the Consulate and then adjustment.

 

But even so still seems pointless, well not a good use of resources,  taking into account how few people are picked up. Well I can number them on one hand from what I have seen on VJ.

 

But then there is a lot to Government processes that make you think #######, probably somebody knows this is not worthwhile but is powerless to change it.

 

 

[Chemist 2]

One thing you have to remember, is that when you filed the K-1, you had to submit a good deal of evidence pertaining to a genuine relationship entered into with true intentions, and the future occurrence of a good faith marriage entered into once the K-1 was approved.

 

Understood.  I’m raising the possibility that she misrepresented her intentions.  That’s happened before, I’m sure.

 

Another thing you have to remember, is that when you filed the AOS, both of you had to submit a mountain of evidence showing the marriage was entered into in good faith and with true intentions.   And evidence that showed a consistency in living in marital union (regardless of the different addresses later on, couples can still share a true marital union).

 

We submitted the marriage certificate, wedding photos and a lease with both of our names on it.  I don’t consider this a mountain of evidence.  More like the minimum amount of evidence required to pass through this particular checkpoint in the process.

 

The two of you had to attend an interview, where you both swore this to be a true marriage, entered into in good faith and with true intentions, and submitted evidence of same.

 

We did not attend an interview.  Nor did we have to swear that it was a true marriage.  She received her conditional green card in the mail at the apartment in Florida while I was in Chicago.

 

Turning around now to claim that the marriage was entered into under false pretenses is going to be more difficult for you to prove given all the documentation you have submitted before....and much easier for her to prove that it was a true marriage when she entered into it.  

 

I might need to walk you guys through my thought process.

 

Divorcing after receiving a green card should raise a huge red flag.  It’s why the conditional green card status was put in place in the first place—to weed out fraudulent marriages.

 

Not cohabiting during the marriage raises another huge red flag.

 

She will certainly be called in for an interview under these circumstances.

 

Now, she may present our apartment lease with both of our names on it and prove that we were living together during the marriage but it didn’t work out so we divorced when the lease expired.

 

Normally, this might be a rubber stamp case.

 

Except that I wasn’t living there for most of that time because I moved out to take another job.  And I sent evidence to prove where I was living.

 

If she represented our relationship as me living together with her until divorce.  Then she has been caught lying which isn’t good.

 

If she claims abuse during a time that I wasn’t living with her. It’s another proven lie.

 

If she is truthful that I moved out after a few months, she may be asked why  she didn’t move with me.

 

She can’t claim abandonment because I sent evidence that I was still supporting her as if we were married.

She has no good reason for not moving with me.  Being a stripper isn’t a good enough reason in my opinion.  Nor is going to beauty school to obtain a license that wouldn’t be valid in Illinois.

 

The agent can determine whether or not her version of events is true and if there was sufficient justification for her actions.  The outcome is going to depend on a lot about how she answers some very difficult questions.  If she lies, it’s game over.

 

This is why I felt it necessary to submit my side.

 

Unless you submitted concrete evidence showing a true intention of her marrying you just for a green card (which from what you have posted thus far, does not seem concrete but more speculation), that is how they are going to determine a good faith marriage. 

 

Or if she is caught lying. 

 

USCIS does not care about the reasons for a divorce, or that the marriage fell apart, how the relationship unraveled, or who was at fault.

 

I wasn’t trying to prove that.

 

Another mark in her favor is that she is the one who initiated divorce proceedings. 

 

No, it’s not a mark in her favor.  To my knowledge USCIS shouldn’t consider who files because it often leads to a race to the courthouse in an attempt to smear the other. 

 

But the divorce petition does excludes the abuse waiver or claims of abandonment.  If she claims this in the interview, she’ll have to give a reasonable answer as to why this wasn’t claimed in the divorce petition. She would be caught in a contradiction

  

Foreigners who marry for sham reasons tend to not ask their USC spouse for a divorce before the conditions are removed.  Rather, they keep up the charade until their status is secured after the ROC is approved.

 

Normally, yes.  But keeping up the charade would mean that she would have to move to Chicago and she didn’t want that.  And it begs the question as to how could she be serious about the marriage if she won't move with her husband?  She’s taking a riskier path this way in my opinion.  But it wasn’t my decision. 

 

The adjudication for her ROC with a divorce waiver is based on whether she ENTERED the marriage with good intentions.  Doesn't matter if it fell apart later. And the two of you would have spent a lot of time over the prior AOS filing to prove this was the case.  

 

And her case for ENTERING the marriage with good intentions is a WEAK ONE.  She has very little documentation of this and people have had denials with more evidence than she has.

 

The case is going to rest on her coming up with a satisfactory explanation for some hard questions, the way I see it.  She’s walking a very fine tightrope if you ask me.

 

 

 

[Boiler 45,658]

I was going to say let us know how it goes, but that would be pointless as you will not know.

[Russ&Caro 1,549]

If I moved to another state, 1,000 miles away in a cold climate, even for a new job, without considering my wife's wishes, she would drop me in an instant with or without a permanent green card, which she doesn't currently have, by the way. She wouldn't bother lying in an application. She would simply refer to me in the application as a curse word that isn't printed within VJ posts.

 

Dude you abandoned her. You already physically moved on. Time to psychologically move on.

[Chemist 2]

17 minutes ago, Russ&Caro said:

If I moved to another state, 1,000 miles away in a cold climate, even for a new job, without considering my wife's wishes, she would drop me in an instant with or without a permanent green card, which she doesn't currently have, by the way. She wouldn't bother lying in an application. She would simply refer to me in the application as a curse word that isn't printed within VJ posts.

 

Dude you abandoned her. You already physically moved on. Time to psychologically move on.

Reread what I wrote.

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

This situation is very interesting. As others have mentioned you dont seem to have any evidence that USCIS would take action on, yet they gave you a courtesy call. Its a real head scratcher!

 

Goingthrough mentioned something that is incorrect (odd for her as she is usually 100% accurate). But who files the divorce DOES matter. I dont know the policy reference off the top of my head but Im sure it can be found on google. Basically it states the bonafides of the marriage can be called into question if the immigrant files. Something about not having good faith in the marriage if they are the ones breaking it off. However its a vague policy and rarely have I seen it enforced. Its just one thing to add to the negative column.

 

Chemist- thats how ROC works.  Imagine there is a negative list and a positive list. Not every item gets the same weight- but you have to have more checkmarks in the positive column then the negative column to get approved. As mindthegap posted during the filing of ROC she needs to demonstrate the marriage was ENTERED into in good faith. IF it gets denied and goes to court it shifts to them having to prove it was not. Many things you say you wrote in your statement actually support her ROC. It is possible to have a marriage where the two spouses do not reside together. Plenty of people move for work (and their spouse stays behind) and get approved. That in itself does not show bad intent on her part. Also the fact that you were supporting her from afar shows a good faith marriage. Her having separate accounts does not show bad intent on her part as well. Taking a line from your book you submitted the minimum amount needed to prove bad intent. Perhaps you addded enough checkmarks to the 'negative' side to make an impact but it doesnt seem like enough to cause a denial.

 

One thing you did say that could be accurate and may very well be the case here is her potentially lying. There are different ways of lying to USCIS. One can be a direct lie. Like her sending a letter with her ROC outlining a happy marriage and containing facts that are false. Another way of lying is lying by omission. That would be her sending her ROC evidence with no explanation so they assume the joint lease meant you both resided there. Im curious as to what your divorce papers stated as the date of separation. Was it when you first moved or when she decided not to come to your state? Did you portray to USCIS that the separation occurred prior to when it was stated in the divorce papers? 

 

Anyway, if she gets called for an interview (which theres no guarantee she will) you are correct that a lot will depend on her answers to certain questions. But remember they are looking for good intent when the marriage was entered NOT what happened that made the marriage fall apart. She could argue your moving to another state caused the breakdown of the marriage. That you just wanted different things.