Can foreign spouse file divorce on Conditional GC?

[Nitas_man 3,100]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:23 PM, Illiria said:

Dude if my husband had upped and left me, even if it was for a job, in a different state just before or just after I got my green card I would have divorced him too and we have been together 15 years. Why didn’t you take her with you then and there or waited for her green card and then moved? This isn’t my first trans continental move, I speak English as a first language, and I still got homesick when I moved so I can’t imagine how isolating it would feel for someone who isn’t speaking English as their first language and hasn’t moved continent before let alone then not having the one person that they thought they could rely on around. 

 

She could have turned to her compatriots after you left and rightly they said ‘what he left you there with no friends and no one to talk to, yeah you need to make sure you have a back up plan in case he stops paying the rent.’

 

I have my own bank account and my own money and I talk to people from my own country but my husband doesn’t see this as nefarious. We don’t share our money in the same way you seem to think is essential, it doesn’t mean that our relationship isn’t real. I still pay my portion of bills but I have control over what is left that is mine. Maybe she found out that she doesn’t have to put all of her pay into a joint account if she doesn’t want to. 

I was kinda thinking the same thing.  If there was fraud OP handed her case right to her.

 

[Chemist 2]

I realize she could try to petition on grounds that I abandoned her.  Although the divorce petition doesn't say this as grounds for divorce (nor abuse).  That might be a difficult question for her to answer if an agent is doing his due dilligence.

 

I have financial records that can prove that I was providing support and covering some expenses while I was working in Chicago until the time I was served.  So I think it would refute such a claim and expose her as a liar if she tried to claim abandonment.  We were also in regular contact via SMS and Skype. All time stamped.

 

She had promised and agreed to move to Chicago to be with me when the lease in Florida is up, although I don't have this in writing.  I will testify to this under oath if needed.

 

This is one of the topics I intend to discuss at my Infopass appointment.  So we'll see.

 

[Boiler 45,956]

She will be doing a Divorce Waiver.

 

Having records of support will help her.

[Going through 5,671]

25 minutes ago, Chemist said:

I realize she could try to petition on grounds that I abandoned her.  Although the divorce petition doesn't say this as grounds for divorce (nor abuse).  That might be a difficult question for her to answer if an agent is doing his due dilligence.

 USCIS really doesn't care what the reasons are behind a divorce, they only care that the marriage was entered into truthfully when adjudicating the ROC.

 

25 minutes ago, Chemist said:

I have financial records that can prove that I was providing support and covering some expenses while I was working in Chicago until the time I was served.

This further helps her in proving the marriage was bonafide when doing the ROC.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Going through

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

The only evidence you should be submitting at that infopass appointment is that of fraud.  Communications in which she admits that the marriage was only for immigration purposes, maybe a boyfriend back home that she intended to marry after divorcing you as part of some plan, etc.

 

If you don't have any proof of fraud, don't even bother presenting it.

[mindthegap 2,599]

For the most part they do not care about the grounds for divorce. They really only care if a) divorce has been filed and b) that it is final. I have never been asked to show my divorce petition detailing the reasons - only the final decree.

 

Financial records of support will strengthen her case.

Refusing to provide them may also possibly help her, as she then has a potential avenue for abuse (using immigration processes as a form of leverage or control can be classed as abuse). Abandonment can take many forms - physical, mental, financial - it isn't as clear cut as you seem to think.

 

You had a shared life together, which is all that matters to USCIS. 

As I and other have stated, it isn't your problem any more.

If she needs documents of your previous shared life together, then don't be an awkward 'donkey' (I can't bypass the swear filter) - just give them to her and move on with your life.

 

[Going through 5,671]

59 minutes ago, mindthegap said:

If she needs documents of your previous shared life together, then don't be an awkward 'donkey' (I can't bypass the swear filter) - just give them to her and move on with your life.

In most cases, he probably wouldn't need to "give" them to her.  If it's joint bank statements, utility bills and the like, she can access those on her own and get past records anyhow if her name was on them as well.

[Villanelle 4,122]

5 hours ago, Chemist said:

I realize she could try to petition on grounds that I abandoned her.  Although the divorce petition doesn't say this as grounds for divorce (nor abuse).  That might be a difficult question for her to answer if an agent is doing his due dilligence.

 

I have financial records that can prove that I was providing support and covering some expenses while I was working in Chicago until the time I was served.  So I think it would refute such a claim and expose her as a liar if she tried to claim abandonment.  We were also in regular contact via SMS and Skype. All time stamped.

 

She had promised and agreed to move to Chicago to be with me when the lease in Florida is up, although I don't have this in writing.  I will testify to this under oath if needed.

 

This is one of the topics I intend to discuss at my Infopass appointment.  So we'll see.

 

You have no fraud case. Its been said many times and yet you still are insisting on going to infopass? Youre going to be wasting your time and theirs and thats not cool. Youre taking an appt from someone who really may need it. 

[Chemist 2]

7 minutes ago, Damara said:

You have no fraud case. Its been said many times and yet you still are insisting on going to infopass? Youre going to be wasting your time and theirs and thats not cool. Youre taking an appt from someone who really may need it. 

It will be my time to waste.  That's my right.  It's not a crime to explore my options and to find out what rights I might have in this situation. 

 

I will also report here the results of this meeting for the benefit of others, straight from the horses mouth.  So I'll be doing a community service.

 

Assessments of my situation vary but some are of the opinion that since it was my wife's fault that the marriage ended, then she may have to leave the country.  She has a lease with both of our names, and a joint checking and some photos of us together.  Some people think this is weak evidence of comiingaling our lives together, especially since she opened her own checking account, applied and recieved her own credit cards and applied for her own student loans without my knowledge, etc.  She also doesn't appear jointly on any utility bills such as electricity and cable.  We don't jointly own property.  She doesn't even have a car (she can't drive).

 

Every situation is unique and it seems like there might be some discretion in how USCIS decides each case.  If they suspect fraud, I want it made clear that I had nothing to do with it and I was duped.  I also want to minimize my financial liability as much as possible, and if it means deportation, then so be it.

 

I think the salient point to me is that there is a reason why there's such a thing as a "conditional green card".  If an immigrant spouse can petition on all sorts of waivers and exceptions to remove the condition, then what's the point of even having it?  She has to convince an agent that she entered the marriage in good faith, right?  Some people are of the opinion that her evidence is weak.

 

 

 

[Boiler 45,956]

I think most of us can work out the result of the meeting.

 

You have responsibilities, I 864, not rights.

[mindthegap 2,599]

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

 It's not a crime to explore my options and to find out what rights I might have in this situation. 

Cool. Nor is it a crime to divorce after obtaining permanent residence via a petitioning spouse.

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

I will also report here the results of this meeting for the benefit of others, straight from the horses mouth.  So I'll be doing a community service.

There are many other horses on this board, many with far more experience than you in these matters. Nevertheless, please do post your results as I personally cannot stand it when people leave threads unfinished. 

You should also tell your wife to post here for advice.

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

Assessments of my situation vary but some are of the opinion that since it was my wife's fault that the marriage ended, then she may have to leave the country. 

Not true. 

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

she opened her own checking account, applied and recieved her own credit cards and applied for her own student loans without my knowledge, etc.  

My bolding.

Were you a husband or a keeper?

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

 She also doesn't appear jointly on any utility bills such as electricity and cable.  We don't jointly own property.  She doesn't even have a car (she can't drive).

As I often state on here for removal of conditions, you cannot provide what does not exist. Explanation letters go a long way in such circumstances.

 

There is no legal requirement - for ROC or otherwise -  to appear jointly on bills, own property together, or jointly appear on lease, or own a car. 

There is also no requirement to have a driving license.

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

Every situation is unique and it seems like there might be some discretion in how USCIS decides each case. 

Every removal of conditions case is adjudicated on the merits and evidence provided.

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

If they suspect fraud, I want it made clear that I had nothing to do with it and I was duped. 

All you can do is tell them and present any evidence you have of this (I have seen you list none whatsoever on this thread so far).

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

I also want to minimize my financial liability as much as possible, and if it means deportation, then so be it.

That is the only way you are going to escape your I-864 requirements until such time as she has accumulated 40 quarters of work or become a citizen, and it is - on balance of how USCIS works with I-751s - more likely NOT to happen, than it is to happen.

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

I think the salient point to me is that there is a reason why there's such a thing as a "conditional green card". 

 It was part of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 , so if you voted for Reagan, you can blame yourself

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

If an immigrant spouse can petition on all sorts of waivers and exceptions to remove the condition, then what's the point of even having it? 

Because it is the law.

Waivers exist in part so that ex-spouses like you, and nasty vindictive ex-spouses like mine, cannot try and screw up their life because a relationship broke down, and because as lawful permanent residents, they have rights.

 

39 minutes ago, Chemist said:

She has to convince an agent that she entered the marriage in good faith, right?  Some people are of the opinion that her evidence is weak.

When filing an I-751, she has to demonstrate that the marriage was entered in good faith and not for the purposes of evading or circumventing immigration laws. 

Should her I-751 be denied she can refile a new I-751. There is in fact no limit on how many I-751s can be filed believe it or not.

If it ultimately ends up in court for a removal hearing, the burden of proof then switches to USCIS to prove that the marriage was not entered into in good faith and was solely for the purpose of evading or circumventing immigration laws. 

Should the immigration judge issue an order of removal, that decision can then be appealed.

 

If you think ICE are going to knock on her door within a couple of days of yelling 'fraud' to them - much as I suspect that my ex-spouse had the same thoughts of that happening - then you are sorely mistaken my pedigree chum. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by mindthegap
typos

[Going through 5,671]

29 minutes ago, Chemist said:

She has a lease with both of our names, and a joint checking and some photos of us together.  Some people think this is weak evidence of comiingaling our lives together, especially since she opened her own checking account, applied and recieved her own credit cards and applied for her own student loans without my knowledge, etc.

Most couples tend to have joint and personal bank accounts...

You seem to be under the impression that she needs to have your consent to open a bank account or apply for a credit card?

 

 

[WeGuyGal 1,052]

You have a right to report where you see potential fraud. This case may very well be, but it helps to be clear-eyed.. from the little we've seen here, she is unlikely to be deported. Might take her longer to remove conditions, but she is likely in touch with friends/support network experienced in dealing with situations like these. 

 

Let us know how infopass goes. 

[Chemist 2]

12 minutes ago, mindthegap said:

Cool. Nor is it a crime to divorce after obtaining permanent residence via a petitioning spouse........

Mindthegap.

 

I know, being through the process yourself, that you have valuable insight to share.  But I also seem to remember you mentioning that you were surprised that USCIS considered certain evidence of the fraud case against you.  Apparently, you thought it was a flimsy case but USCIS didn't and it made the process more difficult for you.  You apparently needed to provide additional proof that the marriage was in good faith.  Care to elaborate for my benefit or is it too personal?

 

Maybe you think I'm reading between the lines on that one.

 

Also, I'm aware that ICE won't immediately deport her.  I'm aware that there is due process.  Even illegals have this right.  I think you guys assume too much about me on that point.

 

I was trying to be her husband, not her keeper.  I see many respondents taking exception to the fact that I disapproved of her having her own accounts and such.  Supposedly, many couples have this arrangement.  None that I've seen personally, however.  In my experience. Spouses that do this are planning to divorce.  USCIS may see this differently, however.

 

Overall, I appreciate the responses.  

[Going through 5,671]

11 minutes ago, Chemist said:

I see many respondents taking exception to the fact that I disapproved of her having her own accounts and such.  Supposedly, many couples have this arrangement.  None that I've seen personally, however.  In my experience. Spouses that do this are planning to divorce.  USCIS may see this differently, however.

I have a joint bank account with my husband.

I have a personal checking account.

I have a personal savings account.

I have my own credit cards.

 

In no way does having control over your own money signify that someone is planning a secret divorce---it possibly means that she was getting tired of you controlling her financially/having to ask you for money as though she were a child.

 

Most people who are responsible adults make sure they live financially responsible too.  Kudos to her for taking that important step in adulthood, and also for taking that initiative on her own since it's clear you would not have supported her in doing so.

 

I'm curious why you would disapprove of her having her own bank account?  Are you saying that you've never had your own personal bank account or credit card of your own during a relationship?  Or is it more of a cultural thing where "the man is the breadwinner/controls all the finances"?

Edited November 6, 2017 by Going through