Yeltsin Dead

[slim 1,530]

Just saw this.... applies to our thread.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18271701/

Interesting thing for me to ponder here..... would we be doing all the stuff we're doing (have done) if not for Yeltsin? Would it even be possible for us to have "Russian" wives?

I guess I'll toast up a nice shot of vodka to this guy, if not for him, maybe my life, (and some of yours too?) would be radically different.

Cheers Boris!

[russ 1]

Jackson-Vanik became law in 1974, and while the ОВиР did still limit exit visas, it was possible to leave for many people. Jackson-Vanik still applies to Russia now.

While travel was never very liberal or open in the Soviet Union, it did exist. My father-in-law travelled extensively. Regular New York to Moscow jet service started in the 1960s. The image of the Iron Curtain many of us grew up with in the west was not a totally accurate picture.

Lee Harvey Oswald's wife was Russian, and even she left after less than a year, in 1961.

Interesting thing for me to ponder here..... would we be doing all the stuff we're doing (have done) if not for Yeltsin? Would it even be possible for us to have "Russian" wives?

I guess I'll toast up a nice shot of vodka to this guy, if not for him, maybe my life, (and some of yours too?) would be radically different.

Cheers Boris!

[Satellite 1]

Interesting thing for me to ponder here..... would we be doing all the stuff we're doing (have done) if not for Yeltsin? Would it even be possible for us to have "Russian" wives?

Jackson-Vanik became law in 1974, and while the ОВиР did still limit exit visas, it was possible to leave for many people.

I, along with many thousands of citizens of USSR left prior to 1991 with an exist visa as political asylees. So yes it was possible to leave before 1991.

You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Jews#T...ation_to_Israel

And it was sponsored by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIAS

And my parents did have to pay a fee to renounce their Soviet Citizenship and we were given one of those small green exit visas which haven't changed much to this day, you can still get one if you ask for a visa extension at the OVIR, or wherever it is done now.

Because there is such a large Russian community in the US, Canada, and Australia it would have been quite possible for you to you to find a Russian born wife without ever traveling to Russia. But the ladies who grew up here, won't really be interested in green cards and the opportunity to escape Russia for a better life, because they already go that, so those on here whose relationship is partly based on that might not have had a chance. Not to mention, Russian men who are in the US are not drunkards and are actually quite successful, so chances are even slimmer.

[JamesT 12]

I could be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that most Russians hated Yeltsin. Is that not correct? The majority of Russians that I've talked to said their lives were worse all through the 90's then it was pre-1991. The economy was horrible all through the 90's with inflation ruining many people's lives because of the devaluation of the ruble (and their life's savings.) Crime was rampant, and the Mafia controlled just about everything. People were starving, healthcare was horrendous or non-existant, and there were homeless people everywhere. The unemployment rate was out of control. People with government jobs had to wait months to get paid (and sometimes never got paid at all.) ...and I could go on and on. The point is I think a lot of Russians felt that their lives were better under the Soviet Union then after Yeltsin took over.

[zqt3344 21]

I could be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that most Russians hated Yeltsin. Is that not correct? The majority of Russians that I've talked to said their lives were worse all through the 90's then it was pre-1991. The economy was horrible all through the 90's with inflation ruining many people's lives because of the devaluation of the ruble (and their life's savings.) Crime was rampant, and the Mafia controlled just about everything. People were starving, healthcare was horrendous or non-existant, and there were homeless people everywhere. The unemployment rate was out of control. People with government jobs had to wait months to get paid (and sometimes never got paid at all.) ...and I could go on and on. The point is I think a lot of Russians felt that their lives were better under the Soviet Union then after Yeltsin took over.

Well, no pain no gain, I guess you would rather see them as the militaristic police state they have become at the hands of the former KGB top dogs. Open your eyes, this country is going to cause some major problems for the western world again. But now with energy blackmail not nuclear blackmail. Yes you are right, majority of all former Soviet countries of CIS think they were better off pre 1990 0r 1991, but then again there was no support to transition them to freedom or free economy. They know not what they wish or ask for, and they have very well may have gotten it now.

ZQT3344

[russ 1]

This depends somewhat on the age of the people you are talking to. Yeltsin was all that my wife and her friends knew before Putin. Gorbachev does takes a lot of the blame.

They don't blame all of the problems on him (though, he never blamed himself much either...) Given a very difficult situation, he did prevent a coup, keep the country from falling back to the communist hardliners, resign as the first democratically elected leader, and hand over power more or less peacefully. I don't know that anyone could have done much better. There has never been a tradition of multi-party government in Russia.

As my father in law points out to me, capitalism and democracy have only been there for 15 years. It is a big country, with strong traditions that are hard to break. For the most part, younger Russians are happy with what happened. At least for the young, there quite a bit of optimism about Russia. (My brother in law is a bright, english speaking engineering student. He has no plans to leave and a great career path.)

I could be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that most Russians hated Yeltsin. Is that not correct?

[Blues Fairy 0]

Not to mention, Russian men who are in the US are not drunkards and are actually quite successful, so chances are even slimmer.

And those outside the U.S. are all drunkards and losers? ))

[KogI 0]

Yeltsen was a very contradictive leader, he made mistakes, he did a lot of good things for the country. He was often blamed for ruining the Russian economy, but people tend to forget the he inherited a pretty much ruined state. Actually the most difficult years were 1991-1992.

I believe he was on of the most charismatic leaders in my country for the last century, though not all Russians would agree – people loved him and people hated him, depends on the region, social status, education etc.

I respected him for being able to admit his own mistakes, for attempts to correct those mistakes, courage to act.

The most important thing for me was the freedom he brought to Russia and the other Soviet republics.

The worst things he did to my country were the war in Chechnya and Putin.

[Satellite 1]

Crime was rampant, and the Mafia controlled just about everything. People were starving, health care was horrendous or non-existent, and there were homeless people everywhere. The unemployment rate was out of control. People with government jobs had to wait months to get paid (and sometimes never got paid at all.) ...and I could go on and on.

I would have to to attribute a lot of Yeltsin's problems to the low cost of oil during his administration. Where do you think Russia got its money to pay its government workers, improve health care, and invest in infrastructure under Putin? Certainly not from the sale of any Russian manufactured goods, say the Russian car...but rather the export of now very expensive raw materials.

As for the mafia, it has now been civilized, in other words, they went to work for the state under Putin.

Not to mention, Russian men who are in the US are not drunkards and are actually quite successful, so chances are even slimmer.

And those outside the U.S. are all drunkards and losers? ))

It was a common complaint made by the Russian women I spoke to. If you think it is all of them, that is your conclusion not mine.

[obender 0]

I think majority of russians do hate Yeltsin. Whatever he did he definetely did out of his bloated hunger for power and his feeling of own "greatness". He stopped only because he physically could not go on. His last years of power started to look like absurd theater.

Bottom line is his "Family" owned as big part of Russian Federation as they could possibly managed. He and his "Family" did everything to try and preserve their status quo after he had to step down by hand picking next president and changing constitution.

The rest was just invented by western press... and I agree that for the outside world reduction of the eastern menace would justify painting everything in nice and cozy pink colors...

obender

[Blues Fairy 0]

It was a common complaint made by the Russian women I spoke to. If you think it is all of them, that is your conclusion not mine.

It was sarcasm, in case you haven't noticed. I wouldn't generalize based on a limited number of opinions.

[KogI 0]

So yes it was possible to leave before 1991.

Oh, yes, it was quite possible to leave and never come back. For most people it was not possible to travel abroad. Getting involved in relationship with an American guy could also bring trouble to the family.

It was a common complaint made by the Russian women I spoke to. If you think it is all of them, that is your conclusion not mine.

It depends on whom are you talking with. Most of the womtn who seek to leave Russia through the marriage are disappointed in theit life and in Russian men. Most probably they are surrounded by drunkards, losers and jerks, because there are plenty of those. On the other hand there are also a lot of not drunkards and quite successful men Depends where you live, what do you do for life.

Never was a problem for me to find a sober and successful man in Russia. Well, it's a bit more complicated if you want him to be also single, charming, sweet, sexy, intellegent, well educated, not too young, not too old, not a jerk, somebody you can trust your life, somebody who does not irritate you, somebody who shares your interests etc - but it's difficult all over the world (I am working in international company and we discussed this subject with the other girls)

As for me I had to go all the way to Denmark (by the way it was almost unthinkable before Yeltsen's time) to meet such a guy. He just happened to be an American

[russ 1]

I fully and totally agree.

The worst things he did to my country were the war in Chechnya and Putin.