London medical price rise

[no name 1]

I do feel ripped off about a lot of things BUT I am about to move to the US where health insurance for my family is going to cost us $11,000 a year. And I still have to pay co-pays and deductibles on top. The health care had better be REALLY amazing out there for that price.

Hey and on top of all that, they won't cover any of our pre-existing conditions for the first year. What a GREAT system!

PS neither me or any of my children pay any National Insurance in the UK... where did the idea that everyone pays it come from?

I'm surprised they cover your pre-existing at all, frankly. Normally they don't (Without a high fee).

Do you work in the UK? I had to have a NIN when I worked in the UK.

[Fandango 1,439]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The UK does not have free health care. Everyone pays National Insurance. Unfortunately if one decides to opt into their own private health care plan, they still have to pay National Insurance.

Furthermore that same "free" health care is crumbling all the time. For routine stuff it works ok...ish.

I needed shoulder surgery which I had to wait nearly a year to have. We have people waiting for beds on trolleys in corridors. Staffing levels are falling and so is the care as a direct result. Our hospitals are plagued with MRSA and generally speaking it is sub standard quality service.

Yes, health care insurance can be expensive in the US but it still works better and faster than the UK, and a lot of the time people would rather be fixed, healed and cured as quickly and efficiently as possible rather than as cheaply as possible when they can fit you in.

Oh, ps & btw...everyone who works pays National Insurance...not everyone/. Just like everyone working in America pays for Medicare, yet not everyone in America is entitled to it. So I'll say again...we can argue the word 'free' all we want, but the argument is semantical in nature.

D had a DVT there and I have to say I have not one complaint in his treatment. Nor did I have a complaint when my very good friend had a heart attack Over here, without insurance...something like either of these things here can put a person in financial ruin. Homesick American...you mentioned MS...well I also happen to have a very good friend I met while there who has MS & receives top notch care...MRIs, medications, & neurologists consultations....all the time. And none of her care which she rec's raises her National Health contribution requirement.

I ran out of my COBRA coverage from a group policy, and 6 years after medical clearance from my surgery, I was quoted a monthly premium of $600. Had I been English, my financial contribution to the NHS would not have changed.

I find it odd to complain about how it's such a 'ripoff' then at the same time complain about the quality of care.

Edited April 25, 2007 by LisaD

[Lou Lou 1]

Still, despite all of this, all of the bad press, I'd rather have the NHS than the American system.

You're added to the list of ex NHS worker expats over here who I know, and they all say they would prefer NHS to the US health system.

Some have bad luck, some have good with the NHS, but there is no way I could complain about them ever again. If you're unemployed or disabled, the NHS is essentially free, and it is free to any foreign national who happens to get sick on their visit.

To top it off, and I have quoted this before, the US health system does not score high in the World Health Organization rankings despite its high cost to individuals. It actually comes #37 -- way below countries such as Chile (#33), Columbia (#22), and even the UK (#18). So what are we paying for? Some would argue you get what you pay for in the UK, but can we say the same about the US? Just like the NHS I'm sure it depends on where you live, but getting rid of the rip off insurance companies (yes, you will get ripped off here too, people!) and doctors in cahoots with drug companies would be a step in the right direction.

(I'm not quite sure why a private clinic price rise has anything to do with the NHS or the government though. As far as I can work out, the civil surgeons over here are making a nice little earner on medicals too.)

[ChasUK 0]

Oh, ps & btw...everyone who works pays National Insurance...not everyone/. Just like everyone working in America pays for Medicare, yet not everyone in America is entitled to it. So I'll say again...we can argue the word 'free' all we want, but the argument is semantical in nature.

D had a DVT there and I have to say I have not one complaint in his treatment. Nor did I have a complaint when my very good friend had a heart attack Over here, without insurance...something like either of these things here can put a person in financial ruin. Homesick American...you mentioned MS...well I also happen to have a very good friend I met while there who has MS & receives top notch care...MRIs, medications, & neurologists consultations....all the time. And none of her care which she rec's raises her National Health contribution requirement.

I ran out of my COBRA coverage from a group policy, and 6 years after medical clearance from my surgery, I was quoted a monthly premium of $600. Had I been English, my financial contribution to the NHS would not have changed.

I find it odd to complain about how it's such a 'ripoff' then at the same time complain about the quality of care.

OK, I said everyone. Of course children don't pay. You say everyone who works pays NI. You obviously do not realise that everyone who claims unemployment benefit still has their stamp paid by the tax payer. It's still not free whatever argument you try to put on it. Children's contributions are calculated into all working and benefit contributions. Individuals, as you quite rightly point out, are not penalised for their use of the NHS, but the contributions are adjusted accordingly. Everyone pays for everyone's health care, (children obviously excluded from the word "everyone").

Furthermore, you are not the only person to receive NHS care. I'm glad you got good service. I didn't. In fact I got lousy service and the NHS have, (more or less), told my mother that she has nothing to do but wait to die because they cannot offer her the treatment she needs to alleviate her conditions and extend her life. With a quality health plan that treatment would happen.

Mags, yes, as you stated you were lucky, but I'm not guessing when I state that the British public is dissatisfied with the NHS. Anyone who says that the general trend is favourable is either lying or biased.

All I know is if I had been on a decent health plan such as I will be on when I get to the US, I would not have outrageous dental bills, deformed fingers and a shortened quality of life for my mother. The NHS sucks, big time. Hell, if I want an appointment with my doctor for something, I need a week at least before they will see me. I could heal in pain from some of things that I needed to see them for in that time. Generally speaking, that's exactly what I do because it makes me angry to be given an appointment beyond what I call reasonable delay.

Worship the free health care if you want. I'm not going to jump on that political band wagon. I suffered, my mother still suffers, and it killed my father. I cannot say that the NHS is anything but a liability in it's present form to the nation as a whole.

[Fandango 1,439]

I said working people pay for it...meaning people on the dole don't. Never mentioned owt about children. Every working person in America pays Medicare, but is not entitled to rec it. I pay for something I don't get. You could God forbid lose your job tomorrow and still get what you wouldn't be paying for. Therefore, it's FREE service. Maybe you'll understand more when you come here and get a job and pay the same amt for summat you're not entitled to.

Incidentally, my mom just had a root canal last week at a specialist and her copay was $900. I dunno where you got that dentists are inexpensive over here. Or the fact that you can call in at the doc's the same day.

I'm not playing the drama card here, but unless you were sat in front of a doc being told you'd prolly die or wake up a cabbage from surgery, and the first question out of your mouth was 'how much does this cost?' cos you're responsible for 10%, I really don't think you'd understand where I'm coming from. It's a terrible thing to have to worry about money when you're sick and need medical attn. I was so worried about $$$ that after surgery, the doc wanted me on vitamin C. He told my mom to go buy a bottle. The nurses would bring round a tablet, and I'd refuse it cos I had my own bottle. Lo and behold, when auditing the $900,000 bill, I noticed I was charged about $400 for 'ascorbic acid' (vit c)!!! I challenged the poxy 500 bucks, they agreed that it was an erroneous charge, but in the process of the audit found that they had undercharged me for my oxygen by 3 days at $200/hour. Hah! Who said air is free

So seriously, paying NI is nothing when you have that safety net God forbid you need it. I'm talking life threatening, emergent care. Dave's been waiting for a hernia operation for a while now...and yes it sucks that he has to wait. But when his leg puffed up again last week and we were worried about a reoccurance of a DVT, he got right in A&E and they did all their fancy tests and gave him a good once over and made sure he was ok. Had that happened here uninsured, I'd have been brickin it.

I'm not trying to bicker with you, really I'm not...this is no pizzing contest. I'm just trying to explain my perspective cos it seems like we're having a communication issue. Have a great night!

[ChasUK 0]

Every working person in America pays Medicare, but is not entitled to rec it. I pay for something I don't get. You could God forbid lose your job tomorrow and still get what you wouldn't be paying for. Therefore, it's FREE service. Maybe you'll understand more when you come here and get a job and pay the same amt for summat you're not entitled to.

You can get as smarmy and as clever as you like. The NHS is NOT FREE. I don't care how many times you post it. Further more, don't you ever presume me to be as stupid as anyone who would bow to your bullying tactics on a message board. I already understand what it's like and I will NEVER presume that you know more or less than me. All I know is what my experiences are and the general trend and feeling about the NHS in the UK by UK subjects and citizens. The people who benefit the most from it are the people who pay sweet FA into it.

I'm not getting into a "pizzing" contest as you put it. What I do know is what I would say to your face if you were sat in front of me arguing the way you do with your "I know it all better than everyone else" attitude. I know what I feel. I know what I see and I know what is going on here in the UK now. I'm not going to be swayed by some sweet talk on a message board as to what my feelings about the NHS are supposed to be. So you had a good experience with the NHS. Bully for you. You were one of the lucky few. The NHS is in a bad way and GENERALLY speaking, (not personally), the country sees it the same way. This is a fact.

[Fandango 1,439]

Every working person in America pays Medicare, but is not entitled to rec it. I pay for something I don't get. You could God forbid lose your job tomorrow and still get what you wouldn't be paying for. Therefore, it's FREE service. Maybe you'll understand more when you come here and get a job and pay the same amt for summat you're not entitled to.

You can get as smarmy and as clever as you like. The NHS is NOT FREE. I don't care how many times you post it. Further more, don't you ever presume me to be as stupid as anyone who would bow to your bullying tactics on a message board. I already understand what it's like and I will NEVER presume that you know more or less than me. All I know is what my experiences are and the general trend and feeling about the NHS in the UK by UK subjects and citizens. The people who benefit the most from it are the people who pay sweet FA into it.

I'm not getting into a "pizzing" contest as you put it. What I do know is what I would say to your face if you were sat in front of me arguing the way you do with your "I know it all better than everyone else" attitude. I know what I feel. I know what I see and I know what is going on here in the UK now. I'm not going to be swayed by some sweet talk on a message board as to what my feelings about the NHS are supposed to be. So you had a good experience with the NHS. Bully for you. You were one of the lucky few. The NHS is in a bad way and GENERALLY speaking, (not personally), the country sees it the same way. This is a fact.

no one's asking you to bow. It was an exchange of ideas, don't get yourself so wound up!

[tmma 467]

Every working person in America pays Medicare, but is not entitled to rec it. I pay for something I don't get. You could God forbid lose your job tomorrow and still get what you wouldn't be paying for. Therefore, it's FREE service. Maybe you'll understand more when you come here and get a job and pay the same amt for summat you're not entitled to.

You can get as smarmy and as clever as you like. The NHS is NOT FREE. I don't care how many times you post it. Further more, don't you ever presume me to be as stupid as anyone who would bow to your bullying tactics on a message board. I already understand what it's like and I will NEVER presume that you know more or less than me. All I know is what my experiences are and the general trend and feeling about the NHS in the UK by UK subjects and citizens. The people who benefit the most from it are the people who pay sweet FA into it.

I'm not getting into a "pizzing" contest as you put it. What I do know is what I would say to your face if you were sat in front of me arguing the way you do with your "I know it all better than everyone else" attitude. I know what I feel. I know what I see and I know what is going on here in the UK now. I'm not going to be swayed by some sweet talk on a message board as to what my feelings about the NHS are supposed to be. So you had a good experience with the NHS. Bully for you. You were one of the lucky few. The NHS is in a bad way and GENERALLY speaking, (not personally), the country sees it the same way. This is a fact.

Honestly-after a " heartbreaking 128 day wait " for your NOA2, and your fiancee there NOW-why on earth are you arguing about the NHS on a message board? I would have thought you had better things to do-I know I would.

PS-as for dental being cheap in the States, I spent more on my dental cosmetics than I did on my car-and I have a nice car.......

[ChasUK 0]

no one's asking you to bow. It was an exchange of ideas, don't get yourself so wound up!

I get wound up when people try to belittle and convince me I'm wrong about something I know, still experience and live with. You may add a laughing smiley if you wish. I'm not going to discuss something lightly when the subject is responsible for my dad's death.

[ChasUK 0]

Honestly-after a " heartbreaking 128 day wait " for your NOA2, and your fiancee there NOW-why on earth are you arguing about the NHS on a message board? I would have thought you had better things to do-I know I would.

PS-as for dental being cheap in the States, I spent more on my dental cosmetics than I did on my car-and I have a nice car.......

So I had a long wait. Does that exclude me from all other subject matter from this point forward?

It's not just expensive to have dental care in the UK. It's extortionate. So extortionate that a lot of people, myself included, forego a lot of treatment because even under NHS pricing, it is still unaffordable, and I'm not talking about cosmetics, I'm talking about root fillings, extractions and the likes.

[Fandango 1,439]

no one's asking you to bow. It was an exchange of ideas, don't get yourself so wound up!

I get wound up when people try to belittle and convince me I'm wrong about something I know, still experience and live with. You may add a laughing smiley if you wish. I'm not going to discuss something lightly when the subject is responsible for my dad's death.

I'm terribly sorry for your tragedy, but just as you have an opinion, so do i. I'm not sat here trying to change your mind. Just having a conversation...no need to take offense when I went out of my way to make it clear I was just relaying my perspective.

You and I have differences of opinion on many things...but you're the one constantly name calling. I really don't understand why you feel the need to insult me as you do...if you personally have an issue with me, then feel free to ignore me...but if you're going to address me in future, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't resort to name calling and insults just because I have a difference of opinion.

Anyways, I'll let you go, cos wow it's late for you!

[tmma 467]

Honestly-after a " heartbreaking 128 day wait " for your NOA2, and your fiancee there NOW-why on earth are you arguing about the NHS on a message board? I would have thought you had better things to do-I know I would.

PS-as for dental being cheap in the States, I spent more on my dental cosmetics than I did on my car-and I have a nice car.......

So I had a long wait. Does that exclude me from all other subject matter from this point forward?

It's not just expensive to have dental care in the UK. It's extortionate. So extortionate that a lot of people, myself included, forego a lot of treatment because even under NHS pricing, it is still unaffordable, and I'm not talking about cosmetics, I'm talking about root fillings, extractions and the likes.

In regards to " the wait"-I just thought that you would be more interested in spending the time with your fiancee, sorry if I was wrong.

As far as the cost of dental-I lived/went to school/worked in the UK for 23 years-my family are all British--trust me--if you think English dental prices are extortionate (even non-cosmetic)--just wait until you need a filling, x-ray or even a clean here.

Have a nice evening!

[ChasUK 0]

I'm terribly sorry for your tragedy, but just as you have an opinion, so do i. I'm not sat here trying to change your mind. Just having a conversation...no need to take offense when I went out of my way to make it clear I was just relaying my perspective.

You and I have differences of opinion on many things...but you're the one constantly name calling. I really don't understand why you feel the need to insult me as you do...if you personally have an issue with me, then feel free to ignore me...but if you're going to address me in future, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't resort to name calling and insults just because I have a difference of opinion.

Anyways, I'll let you go, cos wow it's late for you!

Well I don't consider voicing my opinion about your consistent holier than thou attitude or accusing you of being smarmy, "constant name calling". I have not once called you any name. List the names I have called you and please explain how it could be considered "constant".

Your opinion was to tell me that the NHS is free. It is not. Someone, (the taxpayer), pays for it. This is not a perspective, and my offence was to your way of trying to make it sound like I didn't know what I was talking about. My advise to you is the same as yours. Ignore me if you don't like what I have to say but don't tell me what the NHS is like or make me out to be rude just because I don't agree with you.

Anyways, don't patronise me. I work nights.

[ChasUK 0]

In regards to " the wait"-I just thought that you would be more interested in spending the time with your fiancee, sorry if I was wrong.

As far as the cost of dental-I lived/went to school/worked in the UK for 23 years-my family are all British--trust me--if you think English dental prices are extortionate (even non-cosmetic)--just wait until you need a filling, x-ray or even a clean here.

Have a nice evening!

I'm getting plenty of quality time with Tracy. Thank you for your concern.

I already have my dental solution plotted out. We have investigated it fully already. It will cost me a fraction of the cost here to have the work done that I need once I get to the US.

[Fandango 1,439]

You're taking a strong & very vocal opinion which I have and turning it into a personal offense...when my response has nothing to do with you...you're all full of pizz and vinegar at me as if my opinion was formed solely or even partly to personally offend you.

...I wish I was machine-like, like you....

_________

...Like I said it would be easy if we were automatons and had the higher level of discipline that you possess...

...You can get as smarmy and as clever as you like...

__________________

...What I do know is what I would say to your face if you were sat in front of me arguing the way you do with your "I know it all better than everyone else" attitude....

your consistent holier than thou attitude

I am neither machine-like, nor an automaton, am not attempting to sway your opinion, nor am I attempting to patronize/belittle/condescend/bully/etc...I've actually been quite sincere in my posts & have gone out of the way to put the disclaimers of 'this is just my opinion' as I explain the reasoning behind the opinion that I have. I've made no personally disparaging comments against you and instead of you affording me the same respect, you have to find a way to make things personal. Obviously we do not get along but I'm not going to sit here and call you names.

In regards to the NHS, you said 'I know what I feel. I know what I see and I know what is going on here...' yet you refuse to give me the same consideration. Pity.

I had no idea you worked nights. I was actually being sincere. Go figure!

If you can't stick to topic, then please put me on ignore. There's really no need to give me...someone you apparantly cannot stand...so much attention!