Donald Trump's has state visit to UK downgraded;"he will not be a guest of the Queen"

[Ban Hammer 13,552]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

Ah yes...the Paris climate scam...

 

That symbolic, non-binding agreement that had no specific obligations attached to it. Yes, that was definitely ruining us. Being a member was DEFINITELY ruining our reputation.

 

ergo, what's the point of belonging to it then - other than creating more pollution going to and from it?

[bcking 3,157]

5 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

ergo, what's the point of belonging to it then - other than creating more pollution going to and from it?

2 things:

 

1. Symbolic accords where every country in the world except for 2 can likely make an impact on how individual countries decide to move forward with their individual agendas. I say likely because obviously we don't have data to support/refute that. But we know that symbolism in other situations can have impact, so it is reasonable to assume here it could have an impact.

 

2. A discussion of whether to agree with it or not was completely valid before we joined. I can absolutely see the argument that it doesn't do enough, it is non-binding, therefore it is pointless. Again I'm forgetting the country but I believe the central american country (Nicaragua I think?) that didn't join did so precisely for that reason. It didn't do enough. That being said, I think once you join a symbolic, non-binding accord it seems more reasonable and more sensible to just remain in it. We weren't going to suffer from it because we weren't bound to anything specifically. It sends a far greater message (and in this case, worse, since we are going against every other country in the world save for 2) by pulling out.

 

The publicity/statements Trump used to justify it show that quite clearly. He basically had to lie about the details of the accord to make it seem like a good idea to pull out. He complains about fake news but he literally made sh** up about it, and about the money it would "take" from us, and the random goals he made up about coal etc...

 

EDIT:

 

In mostly unrelated news - My new favorite embarassment for our country was Trump's genius explanation of how we are eliminating our National Debt just because the stock market is doing well. Such a smart guy...

Edited October 13, 2017 by bcking

[Ban Hammer 13,552]

51 minutes ago, bcking said:

2 things:

 

1. Symbolic accords where every country in the world except for 2 can likely make an impact on how individual countries decide to move forward with their individual agendas. I say likely because obviously we don't have data to support/refute that. But we know that symbolism in other situations can have impact, so it is reasonable to assume here it could have an impact.

 

2. A discussion of whether to agree with it or not was completely valid before we joined. I can absolutely see the argument that it doesn't do enough, it is non-binding, therefore it is pointless. Again I'm forgetting the country but I believe the central american country (Nicaragua I think?) that didn't join did so precisely for that reason. It didn't do enough. That being said, I think once you join a symbolic, non-binding accord it seems more reasonable and more sensible to just remain in it. We weren't going to suffer from it because we weren't bound to anything specifically. It sends a far greater message (and in this case, worse, since we are going against every other country in the world save for 2) by pulling out.

 

The publicity/statements Trump used to justify it show that quite clearly. He basically had to lie about the details of the accord to make it seem like a good idea to pull out. He complains about fake news but he literally made sh** up about it, and about the money it would "take" from us, and the random goals he made up about coal etc...

 

EDIT:

 

In mostly unrelated news - My new favorite embarassment for our country was Trump's genius explanation of how we are eliminating our National Debt just because the stock market is doing well. Such a smart guy...

on your first point - every country can decide how to move forward with their individual agenda with or without being a member of this accord.   imo it is nothing

more than another event sponsored by taxpayers around the world so the ruling elite can rub shoulders with each other on the taxpayer's dime.

 

on the second point - symbolic and non binding may morph into something much more ominous down the road............

 

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Ban Hammer said:

on your first point - every country can decide how to move forward with their individual agenda with or without being a member of this accord.   imo it is nothing

more than another event sponsored by taxpayers around the world so the ruling elite can rub shoulders with each other on the taxpayer's dime.

 

on the second point - symbolic and non binding may morph into something much more ominous down the road............

 

If symbolic and non-binding does "morph" down the road...that would be an appropriate time to revisit whether we want to continue to be apart of the acord.

 

Saying we are leaving now because "something might happen down the line" is a little silly. It hardly impacts us at all right now, and having the support of every major world power I think has a profound impact on the smaller countries to see that this is something we all need to take part in. 

 

I think the Paris Accord is the perfect example to talk about our "reputation". I have no doubt in my mind pulling out has hurt our reputation. It may have won points for Trump domestically in some circles, but it certainly hasn't made people respect us outside of our own country. 

[Jacque67 7,328]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

2 things:

 

1. Symbolic accords where every country in the world except for 2 can likely make an impact on how individual countries decide to move forward with their individual agendas. I say likely because obviously we don't have data to support/refute that. But we know that symbolism in other situations can have impact, so it is reasonable to assume here it could have an impact.

 

2. A discussion of whether to agree with it or not was completely valid before we joined. I can absolutely see the argument that it doesn't do enough, it is non-binding, therefore it is pointless. Again I'm forgetting the country but I believe the central american country (Nicaragua I think?) that didn't join did so precisely for that reason. It didn't do enough. That being said, I think once you join a symbolic, non-binding accord it seems more reasonable and more sensible to just remain in it. We weren't going to suffer from it because we weren't bound to anything specifically. It sends a far greater message (and in this case, worse, since we are going against every other country in the world save for 2) by pulling out.

 

The publicity/statements Trump used to justify it show that quite clearly. He basically had to lie about the details of the accord to make it seem like a good idea to pull out. He complains about fake news but he literally made sh** up about it, and about the money it would "take" from us, and the random goals he made up about coal etc...

 

EDIT:

 

In mostly unrelated news - My new favorite embarassment for our country was Trump's genius explanation of how we are eliminating our National Debt just because the stock market is doing well. Such a smart guy...

Yeah, that was hilarious. No wonder he tanked daddy's inheritance so many times.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Jacque67 said:

Yeah, that was hilarious. No wonder he tanked daddy's inheritance so many times.

there's a bit on the daily kos right now that i can't link here, but if you search for headline 'former wharton professor donald trump was the dumbest..' there ya go 

[Jacque67 7,328]

3 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

there's a bit on the daily kos right now that i can't link here, but if you search for headline 'former wharton professor donald trump was the dumbest..' there ya go 

Shocker. He was the top of his class at Wharton!

http://www.dailywire.com/news/6025/trump-avoided-disputing-stories-saying-he-hank-berrien

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

So basically salon and the NYT got caught publishing fake news again. That's hardly a story 

[smilesammich 10,727]

3 minutes ago, Jacque67 said:

Shocker. He was the top of his class at Wharton!

http://www.dailywire.com/news/6025/trump-avoided-disputing-stories-saying-he-hank-berrien

no biggie. his killer golf game is definitely not fakery.

[Jacque67 7,328]

17 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

no biggie. his killer golf game is definitely not fakery.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/donald-trump-golf-score-golf-magazine-patently-unbelievable-a7997606.html

 

yeah, def.

[CaliCat 3,957]

2 hours ago, bcking said:

We have never been seen as bigger fools than we are now. If you can't see that, you're oblivious.

 

Like it or not, outside the US most of the publicity is around the Executive branch. The President is our representative. 

 

There are too many examples right now of the President saying one thing, his cabinet and secretaries "walking back" because clearly what the President said is inappropriate. Foreign policy is probably the most common example right now.

 

That does not give us a great reputation internationally. We are seen as foolish because our President is foolish and days foolish things.

 

Therein lies the rub. Trump is not presidential, and certainly not representative of America. World leaders seem to know his mandate is as flimsy as his mental health. 

[Jacque67 7,328]

Queen won't host Trump?

https://giphy.com/gifs/mic-d0NnEG1WnnXqg

 

boom.

[eieio 1,594]

Naturally, anti American lefties are upset that Trump is not caving in to the demands of the globalists. This is the best indicator we are now on the right track. The more they scream, whine and cry....the better off we are.  

 

What a time to be alive.!

[CaliCat 3,957]

55 minutes ago, Jacque67 said:

Queen won't host Trump?

https://giphy.com/gifs/mic-d0NnEG1WnnXqg

 

boom.

 

She's making us all a favor, by not allowing our so-called president to embarrass us even more than he already does. 

[Jacque67 7,328]

1 hour ago, CaliCat said:

 

Therein lies the rub. Trump is not presidential, and certainly not representative of America. World leaders seem to know his mandate is as flimsy as his mental health. 

It's getting worse. He's going to go full Vincent Gigante by the end of the month.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/13/politics/virgin-islands-president-donald-trump/index.html