I-130 denied at interview - options?

[pushbrk 12,898]

Right.  What's critical is that you determine what the real problem is.  One or both of you more than likely has a clue what it is.

[sema 26]

Rahill, I have read almost all the responses people have wrote to you. I see someone mentioned ineligible, which you did not state that was the case for you.

I know of an Ethiopian who lived in Boston who got denied a I-30. She then engaged the congressman in her state and got her husband here. The congressman or Senator can get you the answers you need to know from the Addis embassy. It is a long process but will definitely be shorter than reapplying and paying more money. You need to get them to write a letter to the embassy and ask why you're husband was denied.

I applied for a Fiancee visa and also got denied, same Bull, " No evidence of bonafide relationshipI" I did not wait for the letter but eventually got it same reason. The only thing with that was you cant appeal (fiancee). A CR-1 you can appeal. Am at work right now, but I have on file as plan B the congress info I got from this site.

Will remember to send you that.

Edited October 12, 2017 by sema

[rahill 28]

7 hours ago, sema said:

Rahill, I have read almost all the responses people have wrote to you. I see someone mentioned ineligible, which you did not state that was the case for you.

I know of an Ethiopian who lived in Boston who got denied a I-30. She then engaged the congressman in her state and got her husband here. The congressman or Senator can get you the answers you need to know from the Addis embassy. It is a long process but will definitely be shorter than reapplying and paying more money. You need to get them to write a letter to the embassy and ask why you're husband was denied.

I applied for a Fiancee visa and also got denied, same Bull, " No evidence of bonafide relationshipI" I did not wait for the letter but eventually got it same reason. The only thing with that was you cant appeal (fiancee). A CR-1 you can appeal. Am at work right now, but I have on file as plan B the congress info I got from this site.

Will remember to send you that.

Hi Sema, thanks. I have been talking to attorneys and it seems that it is possible to challenge this decision and try to get the case reaffirmed. I also was told it's possible to, even before we get the letter from USCIS about the exact reason, we can challenge the officer's decision by asking a supervisor to review it. I am interested in this idea of engaging a congress person too though. Any info about this is appreciated.

[jan22 3,056]

2 hours ago, rahill said:

Hi Sema, thanks. I have been talking to attorneys and it seems that it is possible to challenge this decision and try to get the case reaffirmed. I also was told it's possible to, even before we get the letter from USCIS about the exact reason, we can challenge the officer's decision by asking a supervisor to review it. I am interested in this idea of engaging a congress person too though. Any info about this is appreciated.

FYI, a consular supervisor automatically reviews all refusals, so that has already occurred.

[rahill 28]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:04 AM, pushbrk said:

Right.  What's critical is that you determine what the real problem is.  One or both of you more than likely has a clue what it is.

We're (my husband, myself and the lawyer we retained) pretty certain that it is simply the BS reason "not a bonafide relationship" that they give when they've decided they want to deny. We've submitted plenty of evidence, including a joint lease at an apartment we rented for 6 months together, to show that we have a relationship that goes back 2 years. So, again total BS. I truly believe that if he was from a European country, university educated, fluent in English and came from a higher socio-economic class  they wouldn't be doing this. I'm a PhD candidate at Stanford University and the lawyer said they probably "don't think that we 'match.'" As if that is their judgement to make. In any case, we have retained a lawyer and will respond to the NOIR when/if it comes but also we are starting an entirely new I-130 petition. I'm furious and beyond disappointed. This is not supposed to happen. We did everything right. The classism and racism built into this process is abhorrent. 

[pushbrk 12,898]

Did you actually live in that apartment together for six months and show evidence you did so?  "Not a bona fide relationship" is a common general category of denial reasons but the NOIR will be more specific about how they reached that decision.

 

If you file a new petition, you'll need to withdraw the old one.  They won't approve two (active) petitions from you for the same spouse, because they can't approve a petition for somebody who has the same category of case already approved.  Go one way or the other, because both is just throwing away money.  If your lawyer doesn't know this, find a different one that does.

[rahill 28]

5 hours ago, pushbrk said:

Did you actually live in that apartment together for six months and show evidence you did so?  "Not a bona fide relationship" is a common general category of denial reasons but the NOIR will be more specific about how they reached that decision.

 

If you file a new petition, you'll need to withdraw the old one.  They won't approve two (active) petitions from you for the same spouse, because they can't approve a petition for somebody who has the same category of case already approved.  Go one way or the other, because both is just throwing away money.  If your lawyer doesn't know this, find a different one that does.

Yes. As I said we had a joint lease with both of our names on it that went from June-December of 2016 and we supplied them with a copy. And there is no need to withdraw the petition....we won't have two active petitions. It takes so long for the petition to actually get approved we will be waiting for quite some time before it even goes across any one's desk. We are just beginning it now, so to be clear, it hasn't even been filed yet. This is a safeguard measure because sometimes, though they say they will, the NOIR letter never even gets sent. I've heard from two people who had this happen to them and the lawyer I hired has experience of this happening to clients. If they do send the NOIR and we have a chance to respond we will. 

[rahill 28]

5 hours ago, pushbrk said:

Did you actually live in that apartment together for six months and show evidence you did so?  "Not a bona fide relationship" is a common general category of denial reasons but the NOIR will be more specific about how they reached that decision.

 

If you file a new petition, you'll need to withdraw the old one.  They won't approve two (active) petitions from you for the same spouse, because they can't approve a petition for somebody who has the same category of case already approved.  Go one way or the other, because both is just throwing away money.  If your lawyer doesn't know this, find a different one that does.

Also, I don't think you are correct that they will be more specific. I know someone who was given this as a reason for a denial of a spouse I-130 petition and no elaboration. This is also the response we got when we were denied the K-1 visa "not a bonafide relationship" and no specifics. Perhaps it depends on the consulate whether or not they chose to be specific but I'd be shocked if they feel the need to provide you with exactly the reason they think it is "not bonafide."  

[pushbrk 12,898]

4 hours ago, rahill said:

Also, I don't think you are correct that they will be more specific. I know someone who was given this as a reason for a denial of a spouse I-130 petition and no elaboration. This is also the response we got when we were denied the K-1 visa "not a bonafide relationship" and no specifics. Perhaps it depends on the consulate whether or not they chose to be specific but I'd be shocked if they feel the need to provide you with exactly the reason they think it is "not bonafide."  

I said they will be more specific in the NOIR.  I'm certain I've seen more NOIR's than you have and  probably more than your lawyer as well.  USCIS will not approve an I-130 for a spouse that already has an approved I-130.  They will know there are two active petitions because you will tell the truth when asked both whether anybody has previously filed a petition for this beneficiary and whether you have filed a petition for ANY beneficiary.  Both questions, when answered yes, follow-up with a question about what happened.  To both, you will properly and truthfully answer either, "Visa denied.  Awaiting NOIR." or "Visa denied. Awaiting action on NOIR response."  When the adjudicator sees those answers he/she will immediately deny the second petition because there is already an approved petition for the same beneficiary.  

 

Yes, some Consular IV units give more meaningful and specific reasons for USCIS to show on the NOIR than others, but even then, it varies based on the case.

 

You have two viable choices.  Withdraw the first petition at the same time as or before filing the second, or just wait for the NOIR. 

 

A further caution is that if your spouse answers questions like you do, which is to avoid the specific question and answer indignantly, that in itself would often be considered reason enough to deny a visa, although they would not say that, quite the way I did.

 

Your gamble in filing a new petition without withdrawing the first is that you get all the way to an actual revocation, before an adjudicator deals with the new petition.  Since it is virtually impossible to predict WHEN you will receive the NOIR or when your response to it will be complete, it's quite an expensive gamble.  But, certainly your choice.

 

A joint lease does not in and of itself indicate the joint lessees both live there.  Anybody can leave at any time.  That's why I asked the question I did, in the way I asked it.  Lots of visas get denied with little or no reason given, UNTIL the NOIR is received.

 

If the attitude you present here, is presented by either of you to USCIS or a Consular Officer, I rate your chances of ultimate success at less than 10%.

Edited October 28, 2017 by pushbrk

[jakelake 222]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:04 PM, rahill said:

The classism and racism built into this process is abhorrent. 

What was the race of the officer who interviewed your husband?

[Latonia 29]

@rahill It is best to get advice from someone who has dealt with the same embassy as you and who has dealt with the same issue as you recently not ages ago because we here on VJ are to help each other and not force our opinions on any one because some people will seem like they are experts on everything concerning this visa journey but do what is best for you and ignore the negative comments 

[rahill 28]

On 10/27/2017 at 9:03 PM, pushbrk said:

I said they will be more specific in the NOIR.  I'm certain I've seen more NOIR's than you have and  probably more than your lawyer as well.  USCIS will not approve an I-130 for a spouse that already has an approved I-130.  They will know there are two active petitions because you will tell the truth when asked both whether anybody has previously filed a petition for this beneficiary and whether you have filed a petition for ANY beneficiary.  Both questions, when answered yes, follow-up with a question about what happened.  To both, you will properly and truthfully answer either, "Visa denied.  Awaiting NOIR." or "Visa denied. Awaiting action on NOIR response."  When the adjudicator sees those answers he/she will immediately deny the second petition because there is already an approved petition for the same beneficiary.  

 

Yes, some Consular IV units give more meaningful and specific reasons for USCIS to show on the NOIR than others, but even then, it varies based on the case.

 

You have two viable choices.  Withdraw the first petition at the same time as or before filing the second, or just wait for the NOIR. 

 

A further caution is that if your spouse answers questions like you do, which is to avoid the specific question and answer indignantly, that in itself would often be considered reason enough to deny a visa, although they would not say that, quite the way I did.

 

Your gamble in filing a new petition without withdrawing the first is that you get all the way to an actual revocation, before an adjudicator deals with the new petition.  Since it is virtually impossible to predict WHEN you will receive the NOIR or when your response to it will be complete, it's quite an expensive gamble.  But, certainly your choice.

 

A joint lease does not in and of itself indicate the joint lessees both live there.  Anybody can leave at any time.  That's why I asked the question I did, in the way I asked it.  Lots of visas get denied with little or no reason given, UNTIL the NOIR is received.

 

If the attitude you present here, is presented by either of you to USCIS or a Consular Officer, I rate your chances of ultimate success at less than 10%.

I'm not sure what you read as indignation. You're pretty out of line being that you don't know me or my husband. In any case, you aren't actually reading my response because as I've said we are preparing a new petition right now, not filing it yet. So...again, we do not have two active petitions.  Secondly, what on earth besides a joint lease agreement that was signed by the owner of the apartment, myself, and my husband and that stated that no one was allowed to live at the premises besides us and was authenticated by the neighborhood association (as is custom in a lease agreement in Ethiopia) would be additional proof of co-habitation? We also had receipts of our time spent traveling together, hotel stays and flight itineraries of in-country travel taken together and plenty of photographs. In short, we had far more evidence of our life together going back two years than many other users on visa journey that I've spoken to over the last year. Like another user on here mentioned, the consulate in Ethiopia, which is something I have far more experience (both fist hand and others accounts) than you do, is particularly difficult lately. It is increasingly difficult to pass the consulate processing if you don't fit the mold of what they consider acceptable which is increasingly Ethiopian origin US citizens marrying Ethiopian nationals of the same ethnic and cultural background or two people of different ethnic, cultural backgrounds but of the same socio-economic background (ie. both college educated etc etc) Furthermore, regarding the NOIR, it must be consulate specific because I've talked to plenty of folks who have gone through the same thing as my husband and I at this specific consulate where they provided absolutely NO additional information other than "not a bonafide relationship." I don't particularly care how many NOIRs one has seen where that is not the case if you've never had experience with this particular consulate. Lastly, I'd caution you against, under the pretense of being helpful and dispensing advice to make character judgements about someone. It's both rude and presumptuous and not at all in the spirit of this forum's purpose. 

[rahill 28]

On 10/27/2017 at 9:24 PM, jakelake said:

What was the race of the officer who interviewed your husband?

Why does that matter? systemic racism and classism is what I was referring to. 

[rahill 28]

11 hours ago, Latonia said:

@rahill It is best to get advice from someone who has dealt with the same embassy as you and who has dealt with the same issue as you recently not ages ago because we here on VJ are to help each other and not force our opinions on any one because some people will seem like they are experts on everything concerning this visa journey but do what is best for you and ignore the negative comments 

Agreed. It is indeed the consulate processing that's the difficulty here and this is what we with the help of a lawyer who has experience with this consulate are focussing on. 

[jakelake 222]

1 minute ago, rahill said:

Why does that matter? systemic racism and classism is what I was referring to. 

I assume that you mean that it is possible for someone of the same race to implement racist policies against his own.

What proof do you have that this is going on? If you are going to argue against a decision then you must have proof.