At least 50 dead, 400 injured in shooting near Mandalay Bay casino, 1 suspect 'down'

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27 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

They let the girlfriend back in the country, and she might be the one who's holding the key to that mystery.

Agree. They say you can live with someone for decades without really knowing them. But I don't believe that either, there are always signs of someones character, be it minor ones.
I think we, humans, tend to be in denial especially when someone that is close to us commits a horrific crime.  I just hope she can/want/being able to shed some light into the 'why question'.

For the family members of the victims and the survivors, who at some point  would like to get some disclosure if there a such thing.

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30 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

so, simply the desire to commit mass murder ensures success?

 

every body has regrets/hindsight is 20/20 and all that. i'm sure there are people who wish they'd had a gun and didn't. but i bet there are more that wish a gun hadn't been present when one was.

No, but it's not going to help to fight symptoms instead of the source.

 

I don't know the numbers, but I do know I rather prevent then cure and that comes from a very peace full person :-D

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Beachlover said:

No, but it's not going to help to fight symptoms instead of the source.

 

I don't know the numbers, but I do know I rather prevent then cure and that comes from a very peace full person :-D

the desire to commit mass murder isn't a symptom of any palpable source. we can't regulate thought (yet). 

 

Quote

 Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15522849

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9 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

the desire to commit mass murder isn't a symptom of any palpable source. we can't regulate thought (yet). 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15522849

There are many ways to find out whether someone is fit to own a gun, (mass) murder is without a doubt the result of a troubled or twisted mind.

A twisted mind isn't something that occurs overnight, so i'm really wondering how do those people slip through.

Gun's are also useful outside of the house to prevent bad things from happening.

It's a chicken-egg discussion: would there be less violence if guns were restricted or do guns prevent even more violence?

Fact is America is a complete different country then Canada or the Netherlands and I don't know the details about Switzerland but apparently gun ownership works there.

At least I've never heard of any Swiss mass shooting

 

 

[Merrytooth 5,748]

14 minutes ago, Beachlover said:

There are many ways to find out whether someone is fit to own a gun, (mass) murder is without a doubt the result of a troubled or twisted mind.

A twisted mind isn't something that occurs overnight, so i'm really wondering how do those people slip through.

Gun's are also useful outside of the house to prevent bad things from happening.

It's a chicken-egg discussion: would there be less violence if guns were restricted or do guns prevent even more violence?

Fact is America is a complete different country then Canada or the Netherlands and I don't know the details about Switzerland but apparently gun ownership works there.

At least I've never heard of any Swiss mass shooting

 

 

Just googled Swiss mass shooting -> "Zug massacre" came out

 

There are also plenty of rampage killings in Asia (very restrictive gun ownership), so the choice of weapons are not guns.

Hence, body counts are a lots lesser compared to mass shootings in USA.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Merrytooth said:

Just googled Swiss mass shooting -> "Zug massacre" came out

 

There are also plenty of rampage killings in Asia (very restrictive gun ownership), so the choice of weapons are not guns.

Hence, body counts are a lots lesser compared to mass shootings in USA.

 

 

Yeah, just looked it up. Never heard of it.

There was also a mass shooting where i'm from in 2011 ( 6 dead) and there is a VERY restrictive gun ownership. This is besides the murders committed with guns and related to drug off rip deals, somehow those criminals don't care about the restrictive Dutch gun-laws. For me it was interesting to learn that the strict gun ownership in the Netherlands was not because of fear of mass shootings, but to prevent the citizens overthrowing government ( Dutch Firearms Act 1919). Wonder if that's the case with other gun restricted countries too.

 

America is big country and not comparable with individual countries in Europe or Asia. I believe some countries in Asia have a zero tolerance for crime in general?

Edited October 6, 2017 by Beachlover

[Boiler 46,120]

Tokyo Sarin Attack?

[smilesammich 10,727]

2 hours ago, Beachlover said:

There are many ways to find out whether someone is fit to own a gun, (mass) murder is without a doubt the result of a troubled or twisted mind.

A twisted mind isn't something that occurs overnight, so i'm really wondering how do those people slip through.

Gun's are also useful outside of the house to prevent bad things from happening.

It's a chicken-egg discussion: would there be less violence if guns were restricted or do guns prevent even more violence?

Fact is America is a complete different country then Canada or the Netherlands and I don't know the details about Switzerland but apparently gun ownership works there.

At least I've never heard of any Swiss mass shooting

 

 

it's pretty clear to me, we've got a lot of guns-we've got a lot of gun violence..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/one-mass-shooting-every-day-seven-facts-gun-violence-america/amp/

[Boiler 46,120]

8 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

it's pretty clear to me, we've got a lot of guns-we've got a lot of gun violence..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/one-mass-shooting-every-day-seven-facts-gun-violence-america/amp/

Diversity.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

10 hours ago, CaliCat said:

 

There is no magic number. Is it a red flag to own 100 semi automatic rifles? I'd say it's yes, unless you have your own militia, or own a shooting range. What if you're a retired CPA? Would 33 be a good number? I know the FBI does something similar, and quite successfully so, with financial transactions.  

I know many people who own 10-30 guns, and a handful who own more than 50ish. Several of those also have suppressors and thousands of rounds of ammo.  All are top-notch people.  Not one has hurt another human.  Flagging someone on numbers of weapons alone won’t be sufficient I'm afraid.  It will take many factors/signs to pinpoint a killer.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

6 hours ago, smilesammich said:

it's pretty clear to me, we've got a lot of guns-we've got a lot of gun violence..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/one-mass-shooting-every-day-seven-facts-gun-violence-america/amp/

Not surprising to me at all to see the convergence of the two thoughts on gun control vs. gun rights.  They have to come together somehow to reduce the issue.  I didn’t realize that only ~38% of the total number of gun deaths were actual homicides (less police, suicide), and only 2% were accidents in the 12 years discussed in the article.  I wonder how many of those homicides were criminals killing each other, vs. criminals killing innocents?  Would be interesting to see those figures.

 

As Merle & other have pointed out, guns haven’t really changed all that much in the past 30 years, other than the number.  In the 70s and 80s, gun safety and marksmanship were taught in middle schools across the US.  Kids brought vehicles to school with guns in them.  Often unlocked.  I know I carried knives to school when I was a kid.  No one ever got cut or shot back then.  I remember a time when one could go to a public gun show and buy a rifle or pistol without a background check.  

 

So why the shift in this trend?  What has happened in America in the past 30 or so years that has inspired the number of killings to rise? The number of people in the US has increased, as well as the number of guns owned by civilians.  This makes sense.  But in the past 20 years, deaths by guns has decreased - both homicides and suicides. In 1980, there were 10.8 willful killings per 100,000 people. In 1993 that number had dropped to 7.0, and in 2013, only 3.6 per 100,000.  That’s a 300% reduction in firearm homicides.  (Suicides by gun only dropped from 7.3/100K to 6.7 - relatively steady).

Source:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/?utm_term=.21bfbfa93621 

 

More people, more guns, yet the raw killing numbers has dropped.  Not enough, by anyone’s desire.  But certainly a trend in the right direction.

 

[Dashinka 24,799]

2 hours ago, IDWAF said:

Not surprising to me at all to see the convergence of the two thoughts on gun control vs. gun rights.  They have to come together somehow to reduce the issue.  I didn’t realize that only ~38% of the total number of gun deaths were actual homicides (less police, suicide), and only 2% were accidents in the 12 years discussed in the article.  I wonder how many of those homicides were criminals killing each other, vs. criminals killing innocents?  Would be interesting to see those figures.

 

As Merle & other have pointed out, guns haven’t really changed all that much in the past 30 years, other than the number.  In the 70s and 80s, gun safety and marksmanship were taught in middle schools across the US.  Kids brought vehicles to school with guns in them.  Often unlocked.  I know I carried knives to school when I was a kid.  No one ever got cut or shot back then.  I remember a time when one could go to a public gun show and buy a rifle or pistol without a background check.  

 

So why the shift in this trend?  What has happened in America in the past 30 or so years that has inspired the number of killings to rise? The number of people in the US has increased, as well as the number of guns owned by civilians.  This makes sense.  But in the past 20 years, deaths by guns has decreased - both homicides and suicides. In 1980, there were 10.8 willful killings per 100,000 people. In 1993 that number had dropped to 7.0, and in 2013, only 3.6 per 100,000.  That’s a 300% reduction in firearm homicides.  (Suicides by gun only dropped from 7.3/100K to 6.7 - relatively steady).

Source:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/?utm_term=.21bfbfa93621 

 

More people, more guns, yet the raw killing numbers has dropped.  Not enough, by anyone’s desire.  But certainly a trend in the right direction.

 

This doesn’t fit the narrative.  Repeal the 2nd, ban all guns and confiscate those that are already out there.

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

46 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

This doesn’t fit the narrative.  Repeal the 2nd, ban all guns and confiscate those that are already out there.

 

Might work... in 10-15 years.  Meanwhile, what will happen to gun deaths immediately after all law abiding citizens turn their guns in, but before all the guns on the streets are rounded up?

[Dashinka 24,799]

34 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Might work... in 10-15 years.  Meanwhile, what will happen to gun deaths immediately after all law abiding citizens turn their guns in, but before all the guns on the streets are rounded up?

A lot more innocents may be killed by illegal guns.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

A lot more innocents may be killed by illegal guns.

I agree.  Might work if we could first take the guns out of illegal hands, but I don’t see a way to do that.