At least 50 dead, 400 injured in shooting near Mandalay Bay casino, 1 suspect 'down'

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

Actually the mass shooting in France a bit back, lead to no discussion on gun control,  except that France has total gun control and it did not work.  

no, that lead to a discussion on muslim control. not an option on this one or we'd be discussing both.

[Dashinka 24,800]

Just now, Nature Boy Flair said:

Actually the mass shooting in France a bit back, lead to no discussion on gun control,  except that France has total gun control and it did not work.  

I don't recall there being a lot of discussion regarding gun control when the Bernie supporter went nuts in Virginia either.

[GandD 5,966]

Well, to be fair, some folks would still only talk about one

[Mr&Mrs G. 903]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I don't recall there being a lot of discussion regarding gun control when the Bernie supporter went nuts in Virginia either.

That's a terrible thing to say, are you implying that people here don't care if members of the GOP get shot? 

 

I'm outraged 

[CaliCat 3,957]

12 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

no, that lead to a discussion on muslim control. not an option on this one or we'd be discussing both.

 

Funny, isn't it? people will talk about everything, and blame everyone else, so they can bury their hands in the sand and avoid talking about the gun issue. 

[bcking 3,157]

39 minutes ago, Mr&Mrs G. said:

They use events like this to push their political view, and as I said in my initial post the left had been very quiet lately on the forum. 

 

I don't live in the US yet so I have no real opinion if they should be banned or not, been to a range once on a visit. I can't imagine that I would be against greater gun control but in a country that can't agree on a simple voter id I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

 

As I said, at least for me personally, gun control has nothing to do with politics. I don't care about the GOP, Democrats, current or past Presidents. I care about what our country/government should do to help protect its citizens. Putting the amendments aside for a moment, the whole point of a government is to secure and protect its citizens. The right to life comes before the right to bear arms. 

 

We as a country aren't doing enough to protect our citizens from ourselves. We far outdo every other similar country in terms of gun violence and it's costing the lives of our people. We are failing to do our duty.

 

Yes "human nature is to be violent", but that doesn't mean we can't do things to help curb that violence, or limit access to tools that make that violence far more deadly. This crazy lunatic may have very well planned out a different style of attack if he had no weapons. I'd like to see him kill 50+ and injure 400 with knives. Even driving a bus through a crowd would have a hard time doing that much damage. Explosives maybe, but then the "barrier of entry" for explosives is much higher. Maybe this particular terrorist would have still gone through with it, but there are plenty of nut jobs out there that wouldnt' be able to go that far.

 

Yes England has more "knife violence" than we do after they banned weapons, but I'd take knife violence over gun violence any day of the week. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting in decades. Gun control isn't perfect. People may still find ways, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help. 

 

I'm not looking for a 100% solution because we will never find one. I'm looking for anything that will help. Gun control is on that list, as is better mental health resources. Neither is a silver bullet, and they are likely additive. Unfortunately right now we are going the opposite direction on BOTH fronts.

Edited October 4, 2017 by bcking

[Boiler 46,122]

What about acid attacks?

 

Or Lorries?

[smilesammich 10,727]

4 minutes ago, bcking said:

As I said, at least for me personally, gun control has nothing to do with politics. I don't care about the GOP, Democrats, current or past Presidents. I care about what our country/government should do to help protect its citizens. Putting the amendments aside for a moment, the whole point of a government is to secure and protect its citizens. The right to life comes before the right to bear arms. 

 

We as a country aren't doing enough to protect our citizens from ourselves. We far outdo every other similar country in terms of gun violence and it's costing the lives of our people. We are failing to do our duty.

 

Yes "human nature is to be violent", but that doesn't mean we can't do things to help curb that violence, or limit access to tools that make that violence far more deadly. This crazy lunatic may have very well planned out a different style of attack if he had no weapons. I'd like to see him kill 50+ and injure 400 with knives. Even driving a bus through a crowd would have a hard time doing that much damage. Explosives maybe, but then the "barrier of entry" for explosives is much higher. Maybe this particular terrorist would have still gone through with it, but there are plenty of nut jobs out there that wouldnt' be able to go that far.

 

Yes England has more "knife violence" than we do after they banned weapons, but I'd take knife violence over gun violence any day of the week. Australia hasn't had a mass shooting in decades. Gun control isn't perfect. People may still find ways, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help. 

 

I'm not looking for a 100% solution because we will never find one. I'm looking for anything that will help. Gun control is on that list, as is better mental health resources. Neither is a silver bullet, and they are likely additive. Unfortunately right now we are going the opposite direction on BOTH fronts.

i'm sorry but did i read this correctly, did you just say "putting the amendments aside"? you meant putting all the amendments except the second aside, correct?

are you venezuelan too?

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

What about acid attacks?

 

Or Lorries?

Good luck killing 50+ and injurying over 400 with either one of those.

 

Bringing up "alternative means" is a pointless argument. There is one tool that is designed and incredibly efficient at taking life, and we can do something about it. It doesn't matter what alternative methods there are, we have a responsibility to our fellow citizens to do something about those that we can change.

 

Lorries and acid have uses other than murdering/killing, so you have to balance restrictions with reasonable access (England is working to restrict access to corrosive substances). But it is a balance. Perhaps the solution isn't an outright gun ban, but no one could argue that right now we have achieved the right level of balance. The fact that we are a massive outlier in gun violence suggests that we still miss the mark by a wide margin. 

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i'm sorry but did i read this correctly, did you just say "putting the amendments aside"? you meant putting all the amendments except the second aside, correct?

are you venezuelan too?

Someone's right to life and the pursuit of happiness (both of which were taken from the 50+ dead, and many of those who are injured) trumps (no pun intended) someone else's right to bear arms.

 

Not to mention we have a situation here where a crazy lunatic has a "right" to violent weapons, and the people he kills/injures don't have a "right" to the healthcare required to treat their injuries. That's a mind fudge if I've ever seen one.

[Boiler 46,122]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

Good luck killing 50+ and injurying over 400 with either one of those.

 

Bringing up "alternative means" is a pointless argument. There is one tool that is designed and incredibly efficient at taking life, and we can do something about it. It doesn't matter what alternative methods there are, we have a responsibility to our fellow citizens to do something about those that we can change.

 

Lorries and acid have uses other than murdering/killing, so you have to balance restrictions with reasonable access (England is working to restrict access to corrosive substances). But it is a balance. Perhaps the solution isn't an outright gun ban, but no one could argue that right now we have achieved the right level of balance. The fact that we are a massive outlier in gun violence suggests that we still miss the mark by a wide margin. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

 

On the evening of 14 July 2016, a 19 tonne cargo truck was deliberately driven into crowds of people celebrating Bastille Day on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, France, resulting in the deaths of 86 people^[2] and the injury of 458 others.^[4] The driver was Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel, a Tunisian resident of France.^[5][6] The attack ended following an exchange of gunfire, during which Lahouaiej-Bouhlel was shot and killed by police.

[bcking 3,157]

2 minutes ago, Boiler said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

 

On the evening of 14 July 2016, a 19 tonne cargo truck was deliberately driven into crowds of people celebrating Bastille Day on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, France, resulting in the deaths of 86 people^[2] and the injury of 458 others.^[4] The driver was Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel, a Tunisian resident of France.^[5][6] The attack ended following an exchange of gunfire, during which Lahouaiej-Bouhlel was shot and killed by police.

How many of those have happened?

 

How many gun massacres have happened in the USA? How long will it be until this massacre is trumped by the next "deadliest in US history"? We've gone a little over a year now since the last "deadliest ever".

 

Each "tool" of destruction needs its own balance of restriction/use. As I said, we need cargo trucks. We can't just destroy them all. Bringing up an alternative means of destruction is just trying to ignore the one sitting in front of our face. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by bcking

[GandD 5,966]

We can't really do without "lorries"

 

We could probably live without the sheer quantities of readily available weapons. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, GandD said:

We could probably live without the sheer quantities of readily available weapons. 

says you. what country are you from anyway?

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, smilesammich said:

says you. what country are you from anyway?

Cananda...

 

Don't you guys just need like...moose and donuts?