Treasury Secretary Mnuchin requested government jet for European honeymoon

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

9 hours ago, jayjayj said:

This is a serious question, have you ever traveled on a government aircraft?  I ask this because we are talking about a multi-billionaire here, going on his honeymoon.  Not just any personal trip, his actual honeymoon.  You really think that a multi-billionaire wants to take his new wife on their honeymoon on a crappy government plane, with maybe a semi-decent business class type service, instead of taking her on his private jet or one of his many private jets or even in First Class on any commercial airline he chooses?  Have you ever flown on a private jet or in First Class on an international flight?  Think about it.  This isn't Hillary Clinton prior to taking in hundreds of millions of dollars from foreign donors through the Clinton Foundation, this is a self-made multi-billionaire.

 

But if you have insider information that points to nefarious behavior or a willingness to fraudulently waste tax payer funds, I'm willing to listen.  So far I've only heard hypothetical arguments.  

This is about optics. It may not matter to you either because you don't care about this topic or you feel defensive on his behalf. 

 

If you can honestly say that if this was Loretta Lynch doing the instagraming and eclipse flying off to on the taxpayers dime, then by all means get defensive. It really does not matter who he is in government he is doing a poor job managing the perception that he works for us.

[Dashinka 24,863]

17 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

This is about optics. It may not matter to you either because you don't care about this topic or you feel defensive on his behalf. 

 

If you can honestly say that if this was Loretta Lynch doing the instagraming and eclipse flying off to on the taxpayers dime, then by all means get defensive. It really does not matter who he is in government he is doing a poor job managing the perception that he works for us.

Optics are in the eye of the beholder.  If he had actually used the military aircraft, then it would be a different story, but in this case, it's not really newsworthy.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Optics are in the eye of the beholder.  If he had actually used the military aircraft, then it would be a different story, but in this case, it's not really newsworthy.

I beg to differ, it is newsworthy because the request for a military jet to take Mnuchin and his wife on their European honeymoon triggered an inquiry

by the Treasury Department’s Office of Inspector General. If it was so innocent then it wouldn't have triggered an inquiry.

The request matters because ethics matter. Evidently the internal review was deemed necessary by the Inspector General as it should be.
We are not a third world country without checks and balances, watch dog entities and ethical policies where any government official can do whatever he likes
on the tax payers expense. They are there for a reason. That is reassuring, not something to fuss about or get defensive over.

 

 

 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Optics are in the eye of the beholder.  If he had actually used the military aircraft, then it would be a different story, but in this case, it's not really newsworthy.

But he did fly to fort Knox to check to make sure the gold was there, just in time for the total eclipse and then his clueless wife bragged about it on the social Media. 

 

It's good to be rich in America.

[Dashinka 24,863]

14 hours ago, Ebunoluwa said:

I beg to differ, it is newsworthy because the request for a military jet to take Mnuchin and his wife on their European honeymoon triggered an inquiry

by the Treasury Department’s Office of Inspector General. If it was so innocent then it wouldn't have triggered an inquiry.

The request matters because ethics matter. Evidently the internal review was deemed necessary by the Inspector General as it should be.
We are not a third world country without checks and balances, watch dog entities and ethical policies where any government official can do whatever he likes
on the tax payers expense. They are there for a reason. That is reassuring, not something to fuss about or get defensive over.

 

 

 

Apparently Treasury's IG is bored right now that a simple question drives them to investigate.  Still not seeing this as newsworthy considering nothing actually occurred.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

6 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Apparently Treasury's IG is bored right now that a simple question drives them to investigate.  Still not seeing this as newsworthy considering nothing actually occurred.

Just like the evidence Mueller used to get his Warrants, nothing to see here...

[Dashinka 24,863]

16 hours ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Just like the evidence Mueller used to get his Warrants, nothing to see here...

You have access to this evidence?  From what I am reading the whole Mueller thing is turning into a Scooter Libby like thing.  They need to find something to justify paying all the Democratic lawyers on Mueller's team.  I see a procedural prosecution coming soon.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

On 9/16/2017 at 0:51 PM, Bill & Katya said:

Apparently Treasury's IG is bored right now that a simple question drives them to investigate.  Still not seeing this as newsworthy considering nothing actually occurred.

It was established that it wasn't a simple question but a formal request. I am sorry you don't get the difference and keep talking about a simple question.

A formal request becomes a paperwork process and therefore is taken more seriously in regards to ethical violations than a simple question.
To be deemed "newsworthy" or not may be influenced by your own agenda.

[Dashinka 24,863]

5 minutes ago, Ebunoluwa said:

It was established that it wasn't a simple question but a formal request. I am sorry you don't get the difference and keep talking about a simple question.

A formal request becomes a paperwork process and therefore is taken more seriously in regards to ethical violations than a simple question.
To be deemed "newsworthy" or not may be influenced by your own agenda.

I certainly know the difference, and the reason they have a formal request process is because something like that has to be reviewed.  In this case it appears the request was reviewed and denied which begs the question why is there a further need to investigate this?  I work for a company that also has formal processes for travel requests and these are reviewed and either approved or denied based on many things (primarily travel policies, budget, and the ability to do things differently to accomplish the same tasks).  I don't recall there ever being a further investigation into a formal request that has been denied.  If Mnuchin had further pushed this after the denial and actually took the plane, then an investigation would be appropriate.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

14 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I certainly know the difference, and the reason they have a formal request process is because something like that has to be reviewed.  In this case it appears the request was reviewed and denied which begs the question why is there a further need to investigate this?  I work for a company that also has formal processes for travel requests and these are reviewed and either approved or denied based on many things (primarily travel policies, budget, and the ability to do things differently to accomplish the same tasks).  I don't recall there ever being a further investigation into a formal request that has been denied.  If Mnuchin had further pushed this after the denial and actually took the plane, then an investigation would be appropriate.

 

Ethics and optics matter and they matter in particular in Mnuchin's job being accountable to the public tax payer.

[Dashinka 24,863]

12 hours ago, Ebunoluwa said:

 

Ethics and optics matter and they matter in particular in Mnuchin's job being accountable to the public tax payer.

And the fact that the process worked and no taxpayer money was used seems to be lost on many people including the left wing biased media that seems to think this is a story.  Optics is just another way of saying politics matter, and the fact that we have many many government agencies that actually waste taxpayer money despite the optics would be more of a reason to investigate.  Ethics would only be an issue if he had by-passed the review process and wasted the taxpayer money.  The other thing the press or those criticizing hem have not answered is was there any official items on his agenda during his "honeymoon"?  It is easy to say this was purely a personal trip, but that may not have been the case.  In my company when we book travel there is always a box to check that this trip combines both business and personal items.  The policy is that personal items must be reimbursed accordingly.

 

 

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

3 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

And the fact that the process worked and no taxpayer money was used seems to be lost on many people including the left wing biased media that seems to think this is a story.  Optics is just another way of saying politics matter, and the fact that we have many many government agencies that actually waste taxpayer money despite the optics would be more of a reason to investigate.  Ethics would only be an issue if he had by-passed the review process and wasted the taxpayer money.  The other thing the press or those criticizing hem have not answered is was there any official items on his agenda during his "honeymoon"?  It is easy to say this was purely a personal trip, but that may not have been the case.  In my company when we book travel there is always a box to check that this trip combines both business and personal items.  The policy is that personal items must be reimbursed accordingly.

 

 

It seems you like to push right up to the edge of a cliff before you realize there is a drop before you approach it.
The internal review policy seems to reflect that it is wise to stop the approach when you spot the drop and not dance on the edge of it where it is
easy to fall off. Ethics !
 

[Dashinka 24,863]

20 minutes ago, Ebunoluwa said:

It seems you like to push right up to the edge of a cliff before you realize there is a drop before you approach it.
The internal review policy seems to reflect that it is wise to stop the approach when you spot the drop and not dance on the edge of it where it is
easy to fall off. Ethics !
 

In this case I think you are wrong.  No taxpayer money was wasted initially, but now it is advocated we waste taxpayer money by investigating something that is a non-issue.  You can call me wrong all day, but optics and politics really don't matter to me.  Politicians from all sides screw up their optics and politics all the time so what else is new.

 

 

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

26 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

In this case I think you are wrong.  No taxpayer money was wasted initially, but now it is advocated we waste taxpayer money by investigating something that is a non-issue.  You can call me wrong all day, but optics and politics really don't matter to me.  Politicians from all sides screw up their optics and politics all the time so what else is new.

 

 

Ethics matter to me. It is not about one being wrong and the other right. It is about exchanging opinions and letting the Inspector General follow their policies
that have been put into place long before me or you ever thought about this and letting them do their job.
 I do however have my opinion and fully comprehend why the internal review is done.
I  am not out to convince you of my view, you are very welcome to your perspective.

[Dashinka 24,863]

4 minutes ago, Ebunoluwa said:

Ethics matter to me. It is not about one being wrong and the other right. It is about exchanging opinions and letting the Inspector General follow their policies
that have been put into place long before me or you ever thought about this and letting them do their job.
 I do however have my opinion and fully comprehend why the internal review is done.
I  am not out to convince you of my view, you are very welcome to your perspective.

You keep telling me I am wrong, so I figured that mattered to you.  I said optics/politics do not matter to me, I never said ethics did not matter, and to equate this issue with a lapse in ethics is simply wrong.  I don't think you are seeing that, but making the request (formal or not) is not a breech of ethics regardless of the political optics.  If the request process is by-passed and government equipment is actually used for personal reasons (not just requested and denied) then you may have an ethical case.  Explain to me how this is the case here as so far the argument has been weak.