Treasury Secretary Mnuchin requested government jet for European honeymoon

[Dashinka 24,505]

4 minutes ago, Ebunoluwa said:

 He did not just ask the question, he requested the air craft. Try bonking your own head until it gets through what the issue is here.
Was it wrong ? At the very least incredibly stupid, a waste of tax payers money and shows entitlement for the second time.
Not sure why that riles you up so much, there is plenty of other stuff for you to get bonky about.

And he found out there was another way to secure his communications.  Btw, is a cabinet secretary ever really on vacation?  I am sure even though on a honeymoon, he still had official duties to carry out.  It still doesn't negate the fact that he did not use a military aircraft so no harm no foul from an economic standpoint.  To my knowledge, asking questions does not cost anything unless this has changed.  Now if he is using let's say a private email server, then maybe we could be outraged.

 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

 

It does not help the situation when your super styling wife tweet storms to remind us taxpayers how "basic" we are after her Ft Knox junket at the taxpayers expense.  

Make the Swamp Great Again.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Il Mango Dulce

[Póg mo 1,749]

5 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

 

It does not help the situation when your super styling wife tweet storms to remind us taxpayers how "basic" we are after her Ft Knox junket at the taxpayers expense.  

Make the Swamp Great Again.

 

 

They only care about elitists if they are Democrats.

[jayjayj 571]

13 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

So no answer to my question?  Just like all the stories about this crazy mess that really isn't one.

 

They can't answer you, because the entire story is nonsense.  

[Dashinka 24,505]

4 hours ago, jayjayj said:

They can't answer you, because the entire story is nonsense.  

No doubt.  

 

[Dashinka 24,505]

10 hours ago, Póg mo said:

They only care about elitists if they are Democrats.

Elitist?

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

7 hours ago, jayjayj said:

They can't answer you, because the entire story is nonsense.  

Which story? The story above about the aircraft request for his honeymoon? Or the tweets from his wife that claim she and her husband  have sacraficied more that us basic folk? Or the trip to see the eclipse in government aircraft?  Which one?

I have nothing against Mnuchin, but the fact that we cannot call-out bad behavior when we see it is laughable. It's like right and wrong doesn't matter.

[Dashinka 24,505]

3 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Which story? The story above about the aircraft request for his honeymoon? Or the tweets from his wife that claim she and her husband  have sacraficied more that us basic folk? Or the trip to see the eclipse in government aircraft?  Which one?

I have nothing against Mnuchin, but the fact that we cannot call-out bad behavior when we see it is laughable. It's like right and wrong doesn't matter.

Do you know for an absolute fact that he did not have a business meeting in Kentucky?  Was there anything inappropriate done with the honeymoon other than asking a simple question?  As to the tweets, sometimes when people are personally attacked, they feel the need to hit back.  Sure there was the bit about paying more taxes, but was the person supposedly questioning the behavior just bloviating, or did they really know the facts?

 

 

[jayjayj 571]

46 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Which story? The story above about the aircraft request for his honeymoon? Or the tweets from his wife that claim she and her husband  have sacraficied more that us basic folk? Or the trip to see the eclipse in government aircraft?  Which one?

I have nothing against Mnuchin, but the fact that we cannot call-out bad behavior when we see it is laughable. It's like right and wrong doesn't matter.

All of them are complete and total nonsense actually.  You're watching too much CNN and MSNBC.  

 

You're not even correct about which media platform she sent the message on.  

[bcking 3,157]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Do you know for an absolute fact that he did not have a business meeting in Kentucky?  Was there anything inappropriate done with the honeymoon other than asking a simple question?  As to the tweets, sometimes when people are personally attacked, they feel the need to hit back.  Sure there was the bit about paying more taxes, but was the person supposedly questioning the behavior just bloviating, or did they really know the facts?

 

 

As someone has already pointed out:

 

1. There is a difference between "asking a question" and "requesting something" - He didn't ask someone "Hey do you think I could request to use a plane?" he put in the request (at least that is my understanding). 

2. There are some questions and requests that, using common sense, shouldn't need to be asked. While yes what has happened is not as bad as if he actually ended up using a plane, it is still a question/request that should not have been made. It is fairly obvious to everyone involved, and there is significant enough precedent, that he should have realized that it wasn't appropriate. 

 

The idea that just "asking a simple question" is okay regardless of the question is just silly. What if the question went further? What if he asked if he could ritually sacrifice a virgin on white house grounds? I mean he would just be asking the question. Don't blame a guy for asking.

[jayjayj 571]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

As someone has already pointed out:

 

1. There is a difference between "asking a question" and "requesting something" - He didn't ask someone "Hey do you think I could request to use a plane?" he put in the request (at least that is my understanding). 

2. There are some questions and requests that, using common sense, shouldn't need to be asked. While yes what has happened is not as bad as if he actually ended up using a plane, it is still a question/request that should not have been made. It is fairly obvious to everyone involved, and there is significant enough precedent, that he should have realized that it wasn't appropriate. 

 

The idea that just "asking a simple question" is okay regardless of the question is just silly. What if the question went further? What if he asked if he could ritually sacrifice a virgin on white house grounds? I mean he would just be asking the question. Don't blame a guy for asking.

He didn't request anything.  His staff requested it.  I guess that part is missing from main stream media coverage.

 

Do you really think a billionaire is worried about who is going to pay for his flight to Europe for his honeymoon?  Seriously?  You don't think he has access to multiple private jets?  His staff was concerned about him having secure communications with the President, since he is a member of the National Security Council and we are currently fighting multiple wars, not to mention there is murderous psychopath launching missiles over one of our close allies every week.  Is that a valid concern in your mind?

 

Are you comparing his staff putting in a request for the use of a government plane by the Secretary of the Treasury with a request for ritual sacrifice of a virgin?  Come on!  This is why the left loses every argument.  

[bcking 3,157]

1 minute ago, jayjayj said:

He didn't request anything.  His staff requested it.  I guess that part is missing from main stream media coverage.

 

Do you really think a billionaire is worried about who is going to pay for his flight to Europe for his honeymoon?  Seriously?  You don't think he has access to multiple private jets?  His staff was concerned about him having secure communications with the President, since he is a member of the National Security Council and we are currently fighting multiple wars, not to mention there is murderous psychopath launching missiles over one of our close allies every week.  Is that a valid concern in your mind?

 

Are you comparing his staff putting in a request for the use of a government plane by the Secretary of the Treasury with a request for ritual sacrifice of a virgin?  Come on!  This is why the left loses every argument.  

Of course his staff requested it. I don't the secretary of treasury fills out forms himself. His staff requesting it doesn't mean the request wasn't approved/desired by him. 

 

I'm not directly comparing the two. I used the other as an example of how "just asking a question" sometimes can still be wrong. Yes it is an extreme example, but the concept can hold true in less extreme situations.

 

If I'm in a restaurant and ask where the men's restroom is, it is wrong for me to then ask "and will I have to share the bathroom with a black person?"

 

It seems readily apparent that the precedent set by former treasury secretaries is that military aircraft are used in emergency situations and specifically for foreign business trips. Unless there have been cases where they have been used for private travel of a treasury secretary, the precedent would likely be quite clear within the department.

 

Here is a more reasonable comparison:

 

At my job we have funds that we can use to travel to scientific conferences where we are presenting research. It is well established that the funds are used for that purpose. It would defy common sense, and be inappropriate, for me to go to my section chief and ask if I use that money for a trip with my wife to Cancun. I wouldn't get fired, but it would have CLEARLY been wrong to ask the question.

[jayjayj 571]

8 minutes ago, bcking said:

Of course his staff requested it. I don't the secretary of treasury fills out forms himself. His staff requesting it doesn't mean the request wasn't approved/desired by him. 

 

I'm not directly comparing the two. I used the other as an example of how "just asking a question" sometimes can still be wrong. Yes it is an extreme example, but the concept can hold true in less extreme situations.

 

If I'm in a restaurant and ask where the men's restroom is, it is wrong for me to then ask "and will I have to share the bathroom with a black person?"

 

It seems readily apparent that the precedent set by former treasury secretaries is that military aircraft are used in emergency situations and specifically for foreign business trips. Unless there have been cases where they have been used for private travel of a treasury secretary, the precedent would likely be quite clear within the department.

 

Here is a more reasonable comparison:

 

At my job we have funds that we can use to travel to scientific conferences where we are presenting research. It is well established that the funds are used for that purpose. It would defy common sense, and be inappropriate, for me to go to my section chief and ask if I use that money for a trip with my wife to Cancun. I wouldn't get fired, but it would have CLEARLY been wrong to ask the question.

His staff requesting it doesn't mean he had any idea they did it either.  Unless you have insider information that proves your hypothetical, mine is just as valid.

 

Are on the National Security Council during a time of war?  If you were, maybe your boss wouldn't mind you using a form of travel that ensures you will have secure communications at all times.  Is that really so difficult for you to acknowledge?  I realize you aren't allowed to say anything positive about Trump or his administration, but at least if you use an open mind you could see why his staff decided to ask the question.  

 

You keep comparing this request with clearly illegal and unethical situations.  It speaks volumes to where and how your opinions are formed.

[bcking 3,157]

11 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

His staff requesting it doesn't mean he had any idea they did it either.  Unless you have insider information that proves your hypothetical, mine is just as valid.

 

If his staff requested it without his knowledge, hopefully they will be reprimanded. That is inappropriate. In my personal example, if my secretary asked my section chief if I could use the funds for personal travel without my knowledge, I would be very unhappy given the fact that it is quite clear to me using common sense that we should not ask that question.

 

11 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

Are on the National Security Council during a time of war?  If you were, maybe your boss wouldn't mind you using a form of travel that ensures you will have secure communications at all times.  Is that really so difficult for you to acknowledge?  I realize you aren't allowed to say anything positive about Trump or his administration, but at least if you use an open mind you could see why his staff decided to ask the question.  

As it has been pointed out in most of the articles writing about this topic, military planes are typically reserved for specific members of the National Security Council, except in extenuating emergency circumstances. The Treasury Secretary, for example, would appropriately use a military aircraft to return to DC for an emergency meeting. He would also use it on official foreign trips. While he is on the National Security Council, he is not of equal importance to the Secretary of Defense, for example.

 

Based on precedent, which is discussed in most of these articles, it would not be appropriate OR expected for a Treasury Secretary to need a military aircraft for personal travel. I'm sure his office knows far more about the precedent than we do. If you can find any examples in the past where a Treasury Secretary took a military aircraft to go on holiday, please do let us know. It seems like no news outlets have been able to find an example that supports him requesting it. What makes him different than every other Treasury Secretary before him? We have been involved in wars for a long time now, nothing new here.

 

What makes this situation inappropriate is, at least to our (public) knowledge, a request like this from the Treasury Secretary's office is NOT normal. Past Treasury Secretaries have not asked similar requests. If it was a standard thing "We always ask it, but know that it won't happen" kind of deal then fine. But for some reason they thought they were unique. Why exactly? We've been 'at war' in the same way we are now for a long time. 

 

11 minutes ago, jayjayj said:

You keep comparing this request with clearly illegal and unethical situations.  It speaks volumes to where and how your opinions are formed.

I ended with a personal example, which I agree is an unethical situation. It would be unethical for me to request funds that are well-established for a specific purpose, to be used for personal enjoyment. I think that is the perfect example because requesting a military aircraft, which has a precendent for how they are used among various officials, for private personal holiday time is similarly unethical.

 

He was not the first Treasury Secretary to go on holiday. He is not the first Treasury Secretary to go on holiday during a "time of war". Unless there are examples from the past in which Treasury Secretaries, for personal travel, used military aircraft I don't see why he thinks he is unique or different. No one has been able to provide an example where it has happened before, so there doesn't seem to be a reason to ask.

 

They claim they "found alternative means of communication". Of course they did. They "found" the means of communication that every other Treasury Secretary likely used when going on holiday, whatever it may be. Shouldn't have been hard to locate.

Edited September 15, 2017 by bcking

[jayjayj 571]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

If his staff requested it without his knowledge, hopefully they will be reprimanded. That is inappropriate. In my personal example, if my secretary asked my section chief if I could use the funds for personal travel without my knowledge, I would be very unhappy given the fact that it is quite clear to me using common sense that we should not ask that question.

 

As it has been pointed out in most of the articles writing about this topic, military planes are typically reserved for specific members of the National Security Council, except in extenuating emergency circumstances. The Treasury Secretary, for example, would appropriately use a military aircraft to return to DC for an emergency meeting. He would also use it on official foreign trips.

 

Based on precedent, which is discussed in most of these articles, it would not be appropriate OR expected for a Treasury Secretary to need a military aircraft for personal travel. I'm sure his office knows far more about the precedent than we do. If you can find any examples in the past where a Treasury Secretary took a military aircraft to go on holiday, please do let us know. It seems like no news outlets have been able to find an example that supports him requesting it. What makes him different than every other Treasury Secretary before him? We have been involved in wars for a long time now, nothing new here.

 

I ended with a personal example, which I agree is an unethical situation. It would be unethical for me to request funds that are well-established for a specific purpose, to be used for personal enjoyment. I think that is the perfect example because requesting a military aircraft, which has a precendent for how they are used among various officials, for private personal holiday time is similarly unethical.

 

He was not the first Treasury Secretary to go on holiday. He is not the first Treasury Secretary to go on holiday during a "time of war". Unless there are examples from the past in which Treasury Secretaries, for personal travel, used military aircraft I don't see why he thinks he is unique or different. No one has been able to provide an example where it has happened before, so there doesn't seem to be a reason to ask.

 

They claim they "found alternative means of communication". Of course they did. They "found" the means of communication that every other Treasury Secretary likely used when going on holiday, whatever it may be. Shouldn't have been hard to locate.

This is a serious question, have you ever traveled on a government aircraft?  I ask this because we are talking about a multi-billionaire here, going on his honeymoon.  Not just any personal trip, his actual honeymoon.  You really think that a multi-billionaire wants to take his new wife on their honeymoon on a crappy government plane, with maybe a semi-decent business class type service, instead of taking her on his private jet or one of his many private jets or even in First Class on any commercial airline he chooses?  Have you ever flown on a private jet or in First Class on an international flight?  Think about it.  This isn't Hillary Clinton prior to taking in hundreds of millions of dollars from foreign donors through the Clinton Foundation, this is a self-made multi-billionaire.

 

But if you have insider information that points to nefarious behavior or a willingness to fraudulently waste tax payer funds, I'm willing to listen.  So far I've only heard hypothetical arguments.