Debt or No Debt for DCF

[Paulonto 29]

Hello everyone!

I hope this is the right forum to ask this question..... (1st post)

My wife and I are planning to soon fill a DCF form.

So we are looking ahead and have started planning, but

more question are surfacing.

In America we have nothing at all, family though my wife has.

So we though that maybe, if we buy a small property, it might be easier to show our intent to stay.

So here's the question:

 

Is it better to be in debt but have a house in America

Or is it better to have neither?

 

It might seem a no-brainer for some but not for me....

 

My wife: USC, in UK since 10 years.

Myself:  FRC , in UK since 30 years.

We both have been in the UK permanently and were married in 2009 in NV

 

Thank you so much!

[Jorge V 195]

While having property in the States is a great sign of an intent to establish a US domicile, it's far, far from required. Your wife can show intent in many other ways including getting a job, signing a rental agreement for an apartment, opening a bank account, getting her US driver's license. There are many more. If you want to buy a property because you love it and want to live there, go right ahead, but do not go into debt soley to prove intent to domicile in the US.

 

As an example, I'd been living in Mexico for nearly ten years with my wife. I kept by bank accounts open and renewed my driver's license once so I used those as evidence of my intent to reestablish US domicile.

[Paulonto 29]

Thank you Jorge, I appreciate your reply~

 

The reality is that we're no longer getting any younger, and so we thought that starting from nothing would be harder that starting with a home. That'd be the main reason we'd want to buy a house, and whilst at it, catch 2 birds with the same stone!

 

That being said, my main concern would be the borrowing incurred, and the impact that that it may have with our application. It's all so new to us.

 

My wife (the USC), can't work because her condition doesn't permits, and to pass her US DL or other things such as getting a bank account while living in London doesn't seem so easy.... and will be expensive (plane fares aren't cheap).

 

My main concern remain..... will a loan be detrimental to my application? Do they consider debt as a contre-asset.... for I have no asset other than her family's words as co-sponsors.

 

Thank you again Jorge

[geowrian 22,337]

1 hour ago, Sylv said:

That being said, my main concern would be the borrowing incurred, and the impact that that it may have with our application. It's all so new to us.

 

My wife (the USC), can't work because her condition doesn't permits, and to pass her US DL or other things such as getting a bank account while living in London doesn't seem so easy.... and will be expensive (plane fares aren't cheap).

 

My main concern remain..... will a loan be detrimental to my application? Do they consider debt as a contre-asset.... for I have no asset other than her family's words as co-sponsors.

If you need a joint sponsor, then your assets (and liabilities) won't matter. You didn't state if you meet the I-864 requirements on your own and - if so - what you're using to qualify (income/assets/combination).

 

On the I-864, owning a home + having a fresh mortgage would basically cancel themselves out in the net value of the asset (even with a down payment since that would have been available as a liquid asset already if you didn't buy the house).

[Paulonto 29]

46 minutes ago, geowrian said:

If you need a joint sponsor, then your assets (and liabilities) won't matter. You didn't state if you meet the I-864 requirements on your own and - if so - what you're using to qualify (income/assets/combination).

 

On the I-864, owning a home + having a fresh mortgage would basically cancel themselves out in the net value of the asset (even with a down payment since that would have been available as a liquid asset already if you didn't buy the house).

Thank you Geowrian.

 

Am I correct to say that the I-864 and I-864a are for my sponsors, respectively my wife and a joint sponsor?

Because of my own, I have no asset whatsoever, and neither does my wife. Nill. Currently I earn £40k\yr but that's gone as soon as I leave, and there's no job waiting for me in the US.

 

How would I meet the I-864 requirements on my own and qualify if this form concerns another than me?..... unless I've miss the meaning of it all entirely......... which is well possible...

 

Sorry for my lack of understanding Geowrian, and thank you again.

[Jorge V 195]

Unfortunately it seems like you won't be able to meet the I-864 requirements on your own. As you mentioned your income can't be used as it'll cease once you move. Since you have no assets you can't go that route either. 

 

Your only option is to find a cosponsor. Fortunately a cosponsor can be any US citizen or legal permanent resident domiciled in the US. It does not have to be a family member. They must earn 125% of the federal poverty line for their household size + 1. So if you find a cosponsor with a household size of 1 and add yourself (2) they need to have an income right around 30k USD per year. They can also use assets to qualify.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Jorge Valdivia

[geowrian 22,337]

43 minutes ago, Sylv said:

Am I correct to say that the I-864 and I-864a are for my sponsors, respectively my wife and a joint sponsor?

Because of my own, I have no asset whatsoever, and neither does my wife. Nill. Currently I earn £40k\yr but that's gone as soon as I leave, and there's no job waiting for me in the US.

 

How would I meet the I-864 requirements on my own and qualify if this form concerns another than me?..... unless I've miss the meaning of it all entirely......... which is well possible...

Exactly as noted above...you'll need a joint sponsor. I'm assuming your wife has no income from a source that will continue once you come to the US (and your job won't qualify either, as you are already aware). And without sufficient assets, the only option is a joint sponsor.

 

Your wife needs to complete and submit an I-864 still. The joint sponsor also needs to submit an I-864. An I-864A is only for a sponsor's family member living in the same household as an I-864 sponsor (i.e. if the joint sponsor wants to use their spouse's income as well). Each I-864 needs supporting evidence fo income/assets being claimed.

[Paulonto 29]

6 hours ago, geowrian said:

Your wife needs to complete and submit an I-864 still. The joint sponsor also needs to submit an I-864. An I-864A is only for a sponsor's family member living in the same household as an I-864 sponsor (i.e. if the joint sponsor wants to use their spouse's income as well). Each I-864 needs supporting evidence fo income/assets being claimed.

Thank you so much Geowrian... this is such vital information I can't afford not to know!!! I appreciate very much~ 

 

6 hours ago, Jorge Valdivia said:

They must earn 125% of the federal poverty line for their household size + 1. So if you find a cosponsor with a household size of 1 and add yourself (2) they need to have an income right around 30k USD per year. They can also use assets to qualify.

Thank you very much Jorge!

I found the FPL 2017 online.

It says for 1 person it's $12060, so 125% would be $15075.

Or do I also count as a $12060?

 

I'm not sure how to calculate...

Say a household of 4:

FPL is $24600.

Add 25%: thats $30075.

Do I add myself as the 5th person, that is, $28780 + ($30075 - $24600)

Or

Is it $30075 (4+me) + 25% ?

Thank you so much for your patience~

 

O!!!!! Also: does a retirement pension counts as income please???

Edited September 10, 2017 by Sylv
NB addition

[Jorge V 195]

7 hours ago, Sylv said:

Thank you so much Geowrian... this is such vital information I can't afford not to know!!! I appreciate very much~ 

 

Thank you very much Jorge!

I found the FPL 2017 online.

It says for 1 person it's $12060, so 125% would be $15075.

Or do I also count as a $12060?

 

I'm not sure how to calculate...

Say a household of 4:

FPL is $24600.

Add 25%: thats $30075.

Do I add myself as the 5th person, that is, $28780 + ($30075 - $24600)

Or

Is it $30075 (4+me) + 25% ?

Thank you so much for your patience~

 

O!!!!! Also: does a retirement pension counts as income please???

The correct answer for a household size of 4 is $35,975.

 

So if your sponsor has a current household size of 4, you add yourself and make it 5. The federal poverty line for a five person household is $28,780 and 125% of that is $35,975. Here's a PDF from USCIS that explains this: https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p

 

As far as your retirement income, you can only use it if you're currently drawing income from it and will continue to do so. Future income doesn't count. You may be able to use it as an asset, but USCIS guidelines say that it can only be used if it can be cashed out within 1 year and doing so does not incur a financial burden. I think it's generally accepted on VJ that using a 401k (a type of US retirement account) would not be allowed as cashing out before age 59 incurs a penalty of 10%. You also have to calculate the cash value of the pension. A 401k is taxed as income so it'd lose another 15-40% of it's value depending on the owner's tax bracket. I'm not sure how pensions work in the UK but I imagine that they're pretty similar.

[Paulonto 29]

Thank you so much @Jorge Valdivia !

So it's [(household+me)+25%]

Thank you... I understand yes~

Does it include children below any age?

 

The retirement pension was regarding a retired joint sponsor receiving a pension that could joint sponsor me. though I appreciate your reply and it will be handy.

 

I must add.... I love your wiki guide and I so thank you for linking to the London version.... I would have never known it was there and the info is unbelievably  invaluable - thank you!

[Paulonto 29]

1 hour ago, Sylv said:

Does it include children below any age?

 

The retirement pension was regarding a retired joint sponsor receiving a pension that could joint sponsor me. though I appreciate your reply and it will be handy.

Ok, with your link I've worked out that dependent children are counted as 1 as long as they are dependent.

 

The final question was basically asking if my joint sponsor could be a retired relative who receives a pension above the poverty line as their only income.

[Jorge V 195]

According to the official I-864 instructions (https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-864instr.pdf), retirement income is grouped with standard income, "Enter your current, individual, earned or retirement, annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total in the space provided." So I would say yes.

[Jorge V 195]

10 hours ago, Sylv said:

Thank you so much @Jorge Valdivia !

So it's [(household+me)+25%]

Thank you... I understand yes~

Does it include children below any age?

 

The retirement pension was regarding a retired joint sponsor receiving a pension that could joint sponsor me. though I appreciate your reply and it will be handy.

 

I must add.... I love your wiki guide and I so thank you for linking to the London version.... I would have never known it was there and the info is unbelievably  invaluable - thank you!

No problem for the wiki! One thing to keep in mind about the London guide is that it was written a long time ago and some sections are out of date. You should use it as a general guideline but always refer to the official USCIS instructions!

[Paulonto 29]

Many thanks again for everything @Jorge Valdivia.

I truly appreciate your kind help. 

I pray I soon will too have the joy to start the long process!