Sessions rescinds DACA

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

53 minutes ago, Mrs. Wild said:

I think everyone on this forum can agree that the immigration process is hard, stressfully long, invasive, expensive, and sometimes you do everything the right way and you are denied because of silly little thing. I am all for making this process more attainable and better for the people who want to come here and contribute to our society in a positive way. If you want to come here and pay taxes for my kid to go to school, and you're not going to hurt us... I want that process to be easier for you to do "the right way".

I know I agree.  Most would, it's pretty logical.  Unfortunately, those hoops require some jumping thru, and take time and money.  Though I have often complained how I had to "buy" my spouse via immigration fees, the reality is that the background checks, financial and credit status checks, exams, etc. all take time and money.  Overinflated due to bureaucracy?  Most likely so.  But it sure would be convenient if someone with a clean background, good moral character, and a solid financial background could skip all the time spent waiting and just walk right in... except that would be wrong.  And even if right, there would be an element that would figure a way thru the cracks and get here undeserved (happens every day, I am sure).

 

It can be an unfair process at best, currently, and very discriminatory at worst.  But bear in mind, we are not only dealing with the US government here, but every country with whom we have visa agreements.  Some countries impose limits and sanctions on their people that are stricter than ours.  Some countries, it is very difficult to get a visitor visa to come here.  (Usually for good reason, but still, it's not just the US immigration that requires reform.)

 

We seem to be arguing over a few words of legality here.  There might be a handful, but it doesn't seem that many want to just deport the DACAs.  Our human nature tells us it's the wrong thing to do.  But look at it from the perspective of a potential illegal alien who is desiring to come here and bring their kids... if these DACA folk get amnesty, it will do the very thing you said that restrictive policies do - encourage more illegal immigration, because it will send the message that it is ok, we are a kind and loving country who will forgive the bebbies.  There are probably millions of parents worldwide who would risk their lives to give their kids and future generations a chance to be raised here.  

 

*sigh*. There seems to be no good answer, though everyone here, outside of a few snarky comments and emotional outbursts, has raised good points all around.  It's no wonder the idiots we elected to do this job can't figure it out, if we can't do it amongst our more highly-qualified selves.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

58 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

never said obama deported "more" people or anything of the sort. actually already had that snopes link posted and replied. read ahead, catch up with the current conversation. 

It's ally'alls fault, dadgummit.  I started out 12 pages behind, now i am only 4 pages behind.  SLOW DOWN, I am not an Elite!!

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

57 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

yes, my own source ice, for the year 2016.

you don't agree with me? i'm shocked.

Not sure if we agree or not.  There were several numbers given.  The one I posted (if I understood it correctly) were the actual deportations, not the over-inflated border stoppages.  (Think it was north of 200K reported in the link, but that was HOURS ago I read it)

 

ETA: I always agree with you.  When you are right.

Edited September 7, 2017 by IDWAF

[Mrs. Wild 87]

41 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

I know I agree.  Most would, it's pretty logical.  Unfortunately, those hoops require some jumping thru, and take time and money.  Though I have often complained how I had to "buy" my spouse via immigration fees, the reality is that the background checks, financial and credit status checks, exams, etc. all take time and money.  Overinflated due to bureaucracy?  Most likely so.  But it sure would be convenient if someone with a clean background, good moral character, and a solid financial background could skip all the time spent waiting and just walk right in... except that would be wrong.  And even if right, there would be an element that would figure a way thru the cracks and get here undeserved (happens every day, I am sure).

 

It can be an unfair process at best, currently, and very discriminatory at worst.  But bear in mind, we are not only dealing with the US government here, but every country with whom we have visa agreements.  Some countries impose limits and sanctions on their people that are stricter than ours.  Some countries, it is very difficult to get a visitor visa to come here.  (Usually for good reason, but still, it's not just the US immigration that requires reform.)

 

We seem to be arguing over a few words of legality here.  There might be a handful, but it doesn't seem that many want to just deport the DACAs.  Our human nature tells us it's the wrong thing to do.  But look at it from the perspective of a potential illegal alien who is desiring to come here and bring their kids... if these DACA folk get amnesty, it will do the very thing you said that restrictive policies do - encourage more illegal immigration, because it will send the message that it is ok, we are a kind and loving country who will forgive the bebbies.  There are probably millions of parents worldwide who would risk their lives to give their kids and future generations a chance to be raised here.  

 

*sigh*. There seems to be no good answer, though everyone here, outside of a few snarky comments and emotional outbursts, has raised good points all around.  It's no wonder the idiots we elected to do this job can't figure it out, if we can't do it amongst our more highly-qualified selves.

Ok but like, your response was amazing. Without pandering or being defensive. Thank you for that! I agree, it's a very complicated issue. When we start pulling at one string, it leads to a whole host of root causes. I agree that it requires global cooperation, and unfortunately we're just not at a good place for that. Which is why a lot of people have complex opinions where they feel for the DACA recipients, but do not wish to see completely open borders. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Your normal batting average is dropping Teddy.  Multiple deflections to serious questions, open mocking of other members.  I know you are better than this, I know you are.

 

 

2 hours ago, Teddy B said:

Yes, I would put them to work in the basement making the new Teddy B fashion line. Gotta have the cheap labor to compete with Ivanka.

 

2 hours ago, Teddy B said:

Why are you answering a question with another question that has nothing to do with the original question asked?

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Teddy B said:

Why are you answering a question with another question that has nothing to do with the original question asked?

I didn't, and you know it.  You asked if DACA called for the deportation of the illegal parents of the DACA awardees.  I was pointing out that current immigration laws call for it.  No need for DACA to do it as well.  Please don't play the daft internet dude.  You are much better than that...

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Teddy B said:

You answered the question in your own post. His reasoning is flawed because he doesn't believe it is inhumane to deport the kids. It absolutely IS inhumane to deport these kids/adults that qualify for DACA.

Ok, let's assume for a minute your answer is the right way to do it.  You take those DACA kids, aged 10 to 17, send their parents to their home countries, and you do.... WHAT with the kids left behind?  Is there not a level of inhumanity leaving them behind in a country they are not from, and can't function well in?  I mean, even if you ignored their ages, and the fact that they would now be wards of the "system" that was never designed to support them....

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Tahoma said:

Trump: "I'm going to bring back all those jobs from China.  I can promise you that!!!  I'm going to make America GREAT again before I'm impeached!!!"

I'm going to close Gitmo!

No more boots on the ground!

You can keep your insurance if you like it!

I'm going to create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners!

I'm going to end income tax for seniors who earn less than $50,000!

I'm going to forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses!

Come on man, just stop it.  You've got a year or so worth of ammo.  The other side has 8+ years.  Please try to stay on topic, I'm sure you've got some good input for this DACA mess.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Wild said:

Ok but like, your response was amazing. Without pandering or being defensive. Thank you for that! I agree, it's a very complicated issue. When we start pulling at one string, it leads to a whole host of root causes. I agree that it requires global cooperation, and unfortunately we're just not at a good place for that. Which is why a lot of people have complex opinions where they feel for the DACA recipients, but do not wish to see completely open borders. 

Thanks.  It may not be apparent, but my heart is not always feeling the same way as my words come out of the keyboard.  I'm not a wordsmith, by any means, and often come across harsh or not the way I am feeling.  I try to be a creature of logic, and at times that can be good, but sometimes, logic isn't the right(est) response.  I am imperfect, but on some issues, I really do care.  

 

And I can understand and get behind about 95% of the opinions here in this thread.  Most are great, and noble, some are just correct based on facts.  If my heart had its way, I'd do what I suggested somewhere and sponsor one of these kids who did no wrong.  But alas, it isn't that simple.  I am sure many of the good folk here would do something if they could, and the fact that they cant, causes them to lash out with the mockery and some of the snarky comments.  

 

The root of the whole thing is that these DACA folks have done no wrong, yet they are technically illegal.  They broke a US law, though not of their own volition (some may have done it knowingly, but allow me some room here if you will).  They are guilty of... nothing except doing what they were told by their families.

 

The only way I can see them ever getting to be LPRs (under current law) is to go home and apply via whatever means they can.  (Would be great if we didn't ban anyone under the age of say 18 when they got here, so they actually COULD apply).  But that isn't really a solution either, because some will have no family here who can legally sponsor them.  Some would be too young to even do it via a work visa.  Like I said to Teddy above, allowing them to stay (the younger ones, at least) while deporting their families isn't a viable solution, either.

 

On the flip side, granting them amnesty, while it sounds like the proper, moral, HUMAN thing to do, is yet another Pandora's box that will most likely open at a very inopportune time, perhaps even after all of us are gone from this earth.

 

If it were possible for congress (is that really the opposite of progress?) to amend the laws in this one instance, so that the younger DACA kids could be fostered by willing US families, I think that would be great.  I could get behind that, as a means to get them "on their feet".  My heart loves this.  But my head thinks about the facts that other have mentioned of the kids BEHIND the current DACA kids.  DACA 2.0.  And 2.01.  What about them?  When would it end?

 

I can't drink tonight, but I sure do feel like I need one.  I know that is selfish, but it sure does sound good.

[Tahoma 2,291]

30 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

Come on man, just stop it.  You've got a year or so worth of ammo.  The other side has 8+ years.  Please try to stay on topic, I'm sure you've got some good input for this DACA mess.

Trump: "A year or so worth of ammo?  Sheesh, you must have gone to Trump University!!!  Hey, I've been in the spotlight for DECADES!!!  I've screwed minorities looking to rent, I've screwed investors, I've screwed lenders, I've screwed contractors and workers, I've declared bankruptcy more times than you can count, I'm the king of frivolous lawsuits, and now I'm screwing the dreamers!!!"

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

6 minutes ago, Tahoma said:

Trump: "A year or so worth of ammo?  Sheesh, you must have gone to Trump University!!!  Hey, I've been in the spotlight for DECADES!!!  I've screwed minorities looking to rent, I've screwed investors, I've screwed lenders, I've screwed contractors and workers, I've declared bankruptcy more times than you can count, I'm the king of frivolous lawsuits, and now I'm screwing the dreamers!!!"

Ok, so you have nothing to add to the topic.  Nice to see you back in here again.

[narakthisud 174]

16 hours ago, jayjayj said:

I guess I can't wrap my simple conservative mind around this, but can you explain to me what line they stood in to enter this country? 

They stood in no line at all as they entered the country illegally. That's my point. DACA recipients are not even "in line" in comparison to my wife or coworker who both have pending AOS cases.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I don't think anyone here has said that they are.  But you gotta admit, they are certainly in a large jar of stinky pickle juice that they didn't choose to be in.  Send them away, they are hosed.  Keep them here but deport their illegal parents?  Similarly screwed.  That's my summation of the whole mess.  Of course it's not really that simple, but that's pretty much all the energy I have left for it tonight.

 

2 hours ago, narakthisud said:

They stood in no line at all as they entered the country illegally. That's my point. DACA recipients are not even "in line" in comparison to my wife or coworker who both have pending AOS cases.

 

[Tahoma 2,291]

2 hours ago, IDWAF said:

I don't think anyone here has said that they are.  But you gotta admit, they are certainly in a large jar of stinky pickle juice that they didn't choose to be in.  Send them away, they are hosed.  Keep them here but deport their illegal parents?  Similarly screwed.  That's my summation of the whole mess.  Of course it's not really that simple, but that's pretty much all the energy I have left for it tonight.

 

 

Trump: "DACA is EASY!!!  Nevermind that I fully supported the dreamers before I used them as red meat for my shrinking base.  I wish the FAKE media would stop showing that old video clip of me singing praises of the dreamers!!!"

[jayjayj 571]

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/fmr-uscis-investigator-theres-huge-amount-fraud-daca-program/

 

So many innocent people, no fault of their own.