Gunman contacted NBC News during massacre

[MrsBruce5 0]

I think the risk of emulation is quite low. That is, any one who is mentally disturbed enough to want to go on a mass murder rampage is so far gone anyway. And anyone who is not sociopathic and just severely depressed isn't going to be converted by attention *after* death into a murderer. No one decided to hijack airplanes because of the 9/11 coverage.

I don't know, man. This kid mentioned the 2 kids that shot people at Columbine High School. And there are killers who have confessed to wanting to "beat the record" of some of the serial killers, etc. But I think you're right, it takes a sociopath, not just some depressed person. I saw a few of Cho's videos and believe he was a sociopath, for sure.

I'm not really saying someone is going to emulate this tragedy *because* of the coverage, just that it adds to the collection of sick heroes kids like him worship...and believe me, they are out there. Notably, this sort of thing has been parodied by the film Natural Born Killers. Sick people make heroes out of killers based on how many they've killed, etc.

I don't know. It sickens me.

100% agreed, Ashley. There are many more out there, and it sickens me as well.

[Heracles 417]

I don't know, man. This kid mentioned the 2 kids that shot people at Columbine High School. And there are killers who have confessed to wanting to "beat the record" of some of the serial killers, etc. But I think you're right, it takes a sociopath, not just some depressed person. I saw a few of Cho's videos and believe he was a sociopath, for sure.

I'm not really saying someone is going to emulate this tragedy *because* of the coverage, just that it adds to the collection of sick heroes kids like him worship...and believe me, they are out there. Notably, this sort of thing has been parodied by the film Natural Born Killers. Sick people make heroes out of killers based on how many they've killed, etc.

I don't know. It sickens me.

I am sure others with a similar mindset will find that both of these incidents, columbine VT, will now give them a cause. A psychologist said on TV that this allows them to get the last word in; to finally feel important. Kids with a similar mindset may view this as martyrdom. As this guy viewed the Columbine killers..

I see this as a cry for help in the worst possible way from these kids. We, as a community, need to show them that they do not need to kill others to get heard.. That is how this will stop.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think the point is that no "normal" person would emulate that behaviour and that anyone who would probably has some predilection to violent/disturbed behaviour to begin with.

Still it is disturbing for example the way in which those sorts of people are glorified. I mean, how many movies have you seen in which serial killers of portray as some sort of "twisted genius"? I can name a half dozen offhand at least. Do you also the company that released a series of baseball cards of "famous serial killers", then there was the whole "bum fights" thing. Quite what effect those things have on a person with "normal" psychology is anyone's guess - but my view is that these sorts of things are not aimed at those people to begin with, but are targeted more or less directly at immature and disturbed people.

I'm not sure that these are behaviours that we should really be celebrating.

[Robor007 0]

As a society we cannot just blame this kid and then continue on with our lives; well until the next incident.. These problems would have surfaced years ago probably from elementary school. Why was no proactive action taken back then??

Then again many teachers I speak too from the county he lived in say that their hands are usually tied because the school's administration / principals pressure teachers to sweep these kids under the rug, rather than take a proactive approach. They then get passed on throughout the system and surprise surprise this ###### happens..

These problems did surface and they surfaced recently. Have you read the quotes from fellow students and teachers about him? This guy might as well have been walking around with a tshirt saying, 'I'm going to murder a bunch of people soon'. All of the 'signs' were there.

[Heracles 417]

I think the point is that no "normal" person would emulate that behaviour and that anyone who would probably has some predilection to violent/disturbed behaviour to begin with.

That is the key though. As always, the signs where there. We also seem to be ignoring, abandoning and pushing aside mental health issues for more important issues like people being called nappy heads and civil rights for gay whales. I understand nothing is black or white but come on now..

There are a range of obstacles to identifying and pro actively treating people like this. Obstacles such as privacy laws, civil rights organizations and the threat of lawsuits. It is almost a double edged sword against being proactive. Anyone who tries to help these kids in the early years is usually told to sweep it under the rug and forget about it. On the other hand when someone does try to help them, as VT did, they risk being sued..

[Heracles 417]

These problems did surface and they surfaced recently. Have you read the quotes from fellow students and teachers about him? This guy might as well have been walking around with a tshirt saying, 'I'm going to murder a bunch of people soon'. All of the 'signs' were there.

I agree.

A college in DC was sued for throwing out a kid like that. Nonetheless, if he had been kicked out and did not do it on campus he would have carried it out elsewhere or turned into a serial killer.

[Caladan 19]

I think the point is that no "normal" person would emulate that behaviour and that anyone who would probably has some predilection to violent/disturbed behaviour to begin with.

Still it is disturbing for example the way in which those sorts of people are glorified. I mean, how many movies have you seen in which serial killers of portray as some sort of "twisted genius"? I can name a half dozen offhand at least. Do you also the company that released a series of baseball cards of "famous serial killers", then there was the whole "bum fights" thing. Quite what effect those things have on a person with "normal" psychology is anyone's guess - but my view is that these sorts of things are not aimed at those people to begin with, but are targeted more or less directly at immature and disturbed people.

I'm not sure that these are behaviours that we should really be celebrating.

That was my point. Yes, Cho mentioned Columbine; but Columbine probably didn't make him go crazy. I didn't wake up today and think 'Hmm, gym, or mass rampage?' Hundreds of thousands of lonely geeks felt sympathy for Klebold and Harris, but they didn't go out and shoot up their schools.

The real problem with the glorification is the pain it causes the victims' families and how it feeds into glorifying violence (they should have made a phalanx!!!11!) generally. And the problem with identifying the students that are likely to be homicidal is that frankly, creative writing of a kid who isn't violent but has violent fantasies looks just like Cho. Are they going through a goth phase, a Juliet phase, or are they seriously likely to plot a murder?

[almaty 19]

The man was not well. He should have been in an institution long before any of this happened. I am sorry for the families. But I am not thinking he is truly evil. He was sick.

brother ace, i am in agreement with you on this..he was sick for a long time and was able to continue to grow his paranoia and distrust for all...in a society that values self-liberty, then this will happen again./..the kid needed help desperately.....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think the point is that no "normal" person would emulate that behaviour and that anyone who would probably has some predilection to violent/disturbed behaviour to begin with.

Still it is disturbing for example the way in which those sorts of people are glorified. I mean, how many movies have you seen in which serial killers of portray as some sort of "twisted genius"? I can name a half dozen offhand at least. Do you also the company that released a series of baseball cards of "famous serial killers", then there was the whole "bum fights" thing. Quite what effect those things have on a person with "normal" psychology is anyone's guess - but my view is that these sorts of things are not aimed at those people to begin with, but are targeted more or less directly at immature and disturbed people.

I'm not sure that these are behaviours that we should really be celebrating.

That was my point. Yes, Cho mentioned Columbine; but Columbine probably didn't make him go crazy. I didn't wake up today and think 'Hmm, gym, or mass rampage?' Hundreds of thousands of lonely geeks felt sympathy for Klebold and Harris, but they didn't go out and shoot up their schools.

The real problem with the glorification is the pain it causes the victims' families and how it feeds into glorifying violence (they should have made a phalanx!!!11!) generally. And the problem with identifying the students that are likely to be homicidal is that frankly, creative writing of a kid who isn't violent but has violent fantasies looks just like Cho. Are they going through a goth phase, a Juliet phase, or are they seriously likely to plot a murder?

Indeed - the teenage / college years are usually the most troubled. It was mentioned previously that its that young adult age group which is most prone to suicide / self-harm etc. Which BTW is one big reason why those people should not be given firearms. Putting deadly weapons in the hands of potential depressives is like handing a bottle of whiskey to an alcoholic.

That's what in my view makes the whole "with more guns this would not have happened" argument appear crude and ham-fisted. You have no way of knowing who is thinking of doing something like this -who is just going through the normal teenage angst and who is thinking about murder/suicide. Yet people look for "security" in half-baked ideas about what makes a safer society.

[Fandango 1,439]

this is completely sick and tbh, I blame the University for failing many times along the way to protect their students.

[mawilson 2,133]

These problems did surface and they surfaced recently. Have you read the quotes from fellow students and teachers about him? This guy might as well have been walking around with a tshirt saying, 'I'm going to murder a bunch of people soon'. All of the 'signs' were there.

I know a crazy mofo just like this guy. He's aggressive and anti-social. All the signs are there.

Does it mean he's going to kill a bunch of people soon? Should I kill him first just in case?

[almaty 19]

i think working in the field of mental health and corrections for many ..many years i learn something....

given a choie between criminal and "crazy" ..i take criminal, which i can take steps for safety....lock doors, don't drive in bad areas...have a loud barking dog...etc..

"crazy"..is unpredictable and against the norm

[Fandango 1,439]

These problems did surface and they surfaced recently. Have you read the quotes from fellow students and teachers about him? This guy might as well have been walking around with a tshirt saying, 'I'm going to murder a bunch of people soon'. All of the 'signs' were there.

I know a crazy mofo just like this guy. He's aggressive and anti-social. All the signs are there.

Does it mean he's going to kill a bunch of people soon? Should I kill him first just in case?

yes, you should. Right now.

*here's the disclaimer that I'm joking

[Heracles 417]

That's what in my view makes the whole "with more guns this would not have happened" argument appear crude and ham-fisted. You have no way of knowing who is thinking of doing something like this -who is just going through the normal teenage angst and who is thinking about murder/suicide. Yet people look for "security" in half-baked ideas about what makes a safer society.

• Would more guns have prevented this? No, as the wild wild west days are in the movies. It does not work that way in real life..
  
• Would less guns have prevented this? Also No. As taking away guns does not deal with the real issue. DC had a total ban on guns for years yet their murder rate is still amongst the highest in the country..
  
• Would banning all violent video games / movies have helped? Well maybe, but probably not. I think this sort of stuff probably fueled his anger but was not the cause
  
• Would kicking him out of Uni have prevented it? No as he would have carried it out elsewhere.
  
• Would alerting the students sooner or canceling classes have prevented it? No as he would have found them elsewhere or carried it out on another date / place /time etc..
  

This kid and many like him need help. They need help from the community. Laws and attitudes need to change to prevent them from slipping in between the crack of civil rights / privacy, while they boil up inside. Anyone who thinks this is another freak incident is highly mistaken. More and more troubled kids are going to take this path. The ones who don't take this path end up suiciding, which is just as bad of a loss.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Infidel

[Sinergy 3]

The school was aware of his mental unstibility. It was brought to their attention last year when he tried to kill himself. They all decided he was a danger to himself and needed extensive therapy. The school therapist told him if he needed help she was there for him.

THATS the help they provided him. I do blame the school for what happened, if they had taken control of a severly mental, suicidal anti-social student a year ago, this wouldnt have happened on Monday.