‘Haunted’ By History Of Racism, Red Sox Want Yawkey Way Name Change

[ready4ONE 5,400]

3 hours ago, IAMX said:

Should rename Fenway Park to Yawkey Park. 

Because racism is to be greatly admired?

[-Trinity- 513]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Having a street or other geographic feature named after someone is an honor, so I do think if it comes to light that someone is not deserving of that honor, removal should be an option.

The problem with that is if you dig enough even the most honorable person will have skeletons in the closets. 

 

 

[IAMX 3,055]

19 minutes ago, ready4ONE said:

Because racism is to be greatly admired?

To send a message that tantrums won't get you your way.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Beachlover said:

The problem with that is if you dig enough even the most honorable person will have skeletons in the closets. 

 

 

 

     Why is that a problem?  People are not going to change something over petty acts.

 

    In practice the opposite is often true. We find out someone like Columbus, for example, committed atrocities so horrific that people have a hard time believing it (except for that fact that Columbus himself kept an extremely detailed diary of the acts), and people still defend having streets and celebrations in his 'honor'. 

 

     

 

   

[-Trinity- 513]

5 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     Why is that a problem?  People are not going to change something over petty acts.

 

    In practice the opposite is often true. We find out someone like Columbus, for example, committed atrocities so horrific that people have a hard time believing it (except for that fact that Columbus himself kept an extremely detailed diary of the acts), and people still defend having streets and celebrations in his 'honor'. 

 

     

 

   

It's ironic you mention Columbus. At the end of the Ramblas in Spain,they have a monument to honor him.

The way I look at it is; you don't celebrate or honor that person ( he is dead so he doesn't feel any of it anyway) but it's more remembering an era, with it's ugly and horrific facts but also an era that led to America how it is today.

 

Does that mean we celebrate what those people did? And that we should magnify the good things ( if any) they did and minimize the horrible things? 

No, just tell it as it is, but people shouldn't let their future be determined by what happened in the past.

 

But that's just my opinion about this matter. For the same reason I believe people should have access to Mein Kampf which is not possible in some countries. Reading it is not honoring or glorifying Hitler. And he is dead so he won't enjoy royalties either. But when information ( and I see statues as part of that information, rather then an honor ) gets removed,  soon enough next generations won't know anything about that era. It becomes a myth.

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 minutes ago, Beachlover said:

It's ironic you mention Columbus. At the end of the Ramblas in Spain,they have a monument to honor him.

The way I look at it is; you don't celebrate or honor that person ( he is dead so he doesn't feel any of it anyway) but it's more remembering an era, with it's ugly and horrific facts but also an era that led to America how it is today.

 

Does that mean we celebrate what those people did? And that we should magnify the good things ( if any) they did and minimize the horrible things? 

No, just tell it as it is, but people shouldn't let their future be determined by what happened in the past.

 

But that's just my opinion about this matter. For the same reason I believe people should have access to Mein Kampf which is not possible in some countries. Reading it is not honoring or glorifying Hitler. And he is dead so he won't enjoy royalties either. But when information ( and I see statues as part of that information, rather then an honor ) gets removed,  soon enough next generations won't know anything about that era. It becomes a myth.

 

 

   The Columbus day parade here is a celebration. Smaller than it used to be,  but people are celebrating a heritage, partly because they don't know the history. They learned about the hero who discovered America, not the guy who committed genocide and enslaved a population. To me, that's not about history or information because the whole thing is based on misinformation.

 

  They should get rid of the celebrations, at least as an official holiday. If they want to get rid of the streets, monuments etc., that should be up to each municipality and the people living there, but they should teach the actual history in school instead of nursery rhymes.  The story of Columbus that many people know is already a myth, about as far from the truth as you could get. 

[Dashinka 24,848]

7 hours ago, IAMX said:

To send a message that tantrums won't get you your way.

I often wonder, do MDL parents let their children get their way when they throw tantrums?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I often wonder, do MDL parents let their children get their way when they throw tantrums?

  They should just ignore it. That's what the children of the MDR have to do, watching their parents throw tantrums all the time. 

[Dashinka 24,848]

8 hours ago, Beachlover said:

The problem with that is if you dig enough even the most honorable person will have skeletons in the closets. 

 

 

Heck, most of the men responsible for the US Constitution were either slave owners, or connected to the slave trade (let's not forget that even though many in the North did not own slaves, many there did profit from the slave trade).  Do we tear that up now and consider it void?  Do we get rid of all the streets and schools named for Washington, and Jefferson?  I hear there are many people in Philadelphia that want to get rid of the Frank Rizzo statue, what did he do wrong?  Those in the moderate wing of the MDL think there will be moderation from the radical MDL groups such as Antifa, or BLM, personally I think they are wrong, but they won't call those groups out for what they are radicals.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[spookyturtle 9,466]

58 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

  They should just ignore it. That's what the children of the MDR have to do, watching their parents throw tantrums all the time. 

[-Trinity- 513]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   The Columbus day parade here is a celebration. Smaller than it used to be,  but people are celebrating a heritage, partly because they don't know the history. They learned about the hero who discovered America, not the guy who committed genocide and enslaved a population. To me, that's not about history or information because the whole thing is based on misinformation.

 

  They should get rid of the celebrations, at least as an official holiday. If they want to get rid of the streets, monuments etc., that should be up to each municipality and the people living there, but they should teach the actual history in school instead of nursery rhymes.  The story of Columbus that many people know is already a myth, about as far from the truth as you could get. 

Gotcha, didn't know that there is such a thing as a Columbus parade. Have never seen or been to one here. Also the information that Columbus "found" America is outdated and publicly well known. I don't think his part in history of America need to be celebrated, but that he played a role in history is a fact that can't be erased either. 

I think main issue is that despite all the different way we can access information nowadays,  people don't want to put much effort into researching facts, or the pick and choose the facts that support their opinions.

 

 

[Jacque67 7,328]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

  They should just ignore it. That's what the children of the MDR have to do, watching their parents throw tantrums all the time. 

Post of the year!

[-Trinity- 513]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Heck, most of the men responsible for the US Constitution were either slave owners, or connected to the slave trade (let's not forget that even though many in the North did not own slaves, many there did profit from the slave trade).  Do we tear that up now and consider it void?  Do we get rid of all the streets and schools named for Washington, and Jefferson?  I hear there are many people in Philadelphia that want to get rid of the Frank Rizzo statue, what did he do wrong?  Those in the moderate wing of the MDL think there will be moderation from the radical MDL groups such as Antifa, or BLM, personally I think they are wrong, but they won't call those groups out for what they are radicals.

I think if we look back at history and we take a very good and close look that there was no one whoes hands were clean when it comes up not only to slavery but the way they thought about people of color in general.

 

Slavery was evil and disgusting. It got banned as it should be, but now it's time to move on with our lives. 

[Dashinka 24,848]

12 minutes ago, Beachlover said:

I think if we look back at history and we take a very good and close look that there was no one whoes hands were clean when it comes up not only to slavery but the way they thought about people of color in general.

 

Slavery was evil and disgusting. It got banned as it should be, but now it's time to move on with our lives. 

I thought we had moved on.  Sure I know there are white supremacist groups, but those have largely been marginalized and until recently they received little notice.  Wiping out racism through some sort of political war will be just as effective as the war on drugs as the people that are hard headed will never change their deep seated beliefs.

[CaliCat 3,957]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

  They should just ignore it. That's what the children of the MDR have to do, watching their parents throw tantrums all the time. 

 

I feel sorry for the children. Having to deal with their parents' hissy fits, and all the snow!!!!!

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by CaliCat