The wussifying of America

[mawilson 2,133]

How about the Hungerford massacre or the Port Arthur Massacre?

Only in America? Hardly.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well, Europeans tend not to kill each other at nearly the rate that Americans do. How weak. Damn those wussies.

It could happen anywhere. Did you forget Dunblane?

Dunblane was in 1995 - and nothing of that nature has taken place in the UK since then. The only other comparable "shooting rampage" incident the UK had before that was the Hungerford Massacre in the 80's. Still isolated incidents aside it doesn't (at all) compare with the alarming frequency with which these events take place in the US. Even assuming that Columbine was the precedent (which it wasn't) the US has had shooting incidents of this type (involving schools or "disgruntled employees" shooting up their co-workers) every single year since 1999.

This phenomenon while not confined to the US, has nothing approaching the levels of incidence that have taken place in the US.

Edited April 18, 2007 by erekose

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How about the Hungerford massacre or the Port Arthur Massacre?

Only in America? Hardly.

The best you can find are isolated cases 20 and 10+ years ago, respectively? One of the two wasn't even European but Australian. Australia has, by the way, introduced tighter gun controls in 1996, I believe, following periodic rampages that occured there prior. They haven't had much trouble since with events like this. Fcuking wussies. Time they pick up the guns again and start killing each other more so they don't end up on their knees...

Edited April 18, 2007 by ET-US2004

[Caladan 19]

i doubt that....

Who's going to defend Europe if Russia decided to invade? France?

The UK, most likely.

The U.S. is perhaps more cocky than other country's about its ability to be non-wusses given that the last time it was seriously threatened by ground forces, it was doing it itself during the Civil War. The rest of the world really has to be gone to hell in a handbasket in order for two oceans' of protection to be useless.

Don't get me wrong; big fan of living in a superpower, but one reason Americans are all "I'd go Jack Bauer and pwn the ### off terrorist and then level up to get my superarmor' is that as civilians, we haven't seen the damage of a war. Europe may be less belligerent simply because it knows that the battle's going to be in its backyard not ours.

Our brave post 9/11 sacrifice? Go shopping, says Bush.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

i doubt that....

Who's going to defend Europe if Russia decided to invade? France?

The UK, most likely.

The U.S. is perhaps more cocky than other country's about its ability to be non-wusses given that the last time it was seriously threatened by ground forces, it was doing it itself during the Civil War. The rest of the world really has to be gone to hell in a handbasket in order for two oceans' of protection to be useless.

Don't get me wrong; big fan of living in a superpower, but one reason Americans are all "I'd go Jack Bauer and pwn the ### off terrorist and then level up to get my superarmor' is that as civilians, we haven't seen the damage of a war. Europe may be less belligerent simply because it knows that the battle's going to be in its backyard not ours.

Our brave post 9/11 sacrifice? Go shopping, says Bush.

Good point - its easy to be arrogantly gung-ho when you have nothing invested in the outcome. Hence all the spurious commentary about "what is best for Iraqis".

[mawilson 2,133]

The best you can find are isolated cases 20 and 10+ years ago, respectively? One of the two wasn't even European but Australian. Australia has, by the way, introduced tighter gun controls in 1996, I believe, following periodic rampages that occured there prior. They haven't had much trouble since with events like this. Fcuking wussies. Time they pick up the guns again and start killing each other more so they don't end up on their knees...

Gun control or no gun control, people who want guns will find a way to get them.

The UK has some of the tightest gun control laws in the world (since Dunblane),

but I still know where to get a gun if I need one.

If anything, we need more guns, not less. If other students had guns to defend

themselves with, this would never have happened.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If anything, we need more guns, not less. If other students had guns to defend

themselves with, this would never have happened.

That argument is really tired IMO. After all the paranoia and fear after 9/11 most people (the world over) carry on their daily lives as normal. Why because its a fact of life that things come out of left-field. Why allow terrorists and random disturbed people to change the way you live? Seems to me you're endorsing the idea that people should live in fear.

Moreover, just because guns are legal doesn't mean that someone is necessarily going to want to get one. I can speak for myself on that one...

[mawilson 2,133]

Seems to me you're endorsing the idea that people should live in fear.

Not necessarily. I don't lock my front door out of fear, it's just common sense.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That analogy doesn't really extend to firearms - unless people start wearing crash helmets, non-slip soles and bullet proof-vests trying to anticipate everything that could possibly happen to them....

[Mel_and_Daniel 1]

If anything, we need more guns, not less. If other students had guns to defend

themselves with, this would never have happened.

Who knows... Maybe it would have happened sooner!

[almaty 19]

i doubt that....

Who's going to defend Europe if Russia decided to invade? France?

The UK, most likely.

The U.S. is perhaps more cocky than other country's about its ability to be non-wusses given that the last time it was seriously threatened by ground forces, it was doing it itself during the Civil War. The rest of the world really has to be gone to hell in a handbasket in order for two oceans' of protection to be useless.

Don't get me wrong; big fan of living in a superpower, but one reason Americans are all "I'd go Jack Bauer and pwn the ### off terrorist and then level up to get my superarmor' is that as civilians, we haven't seen the damage of a war. Europe may be less belligerent simply because it knows that the battle's going to be in its backyard not ours.

Our brave post 9/11 sacrifice? Go shopping, says Bush.

Good point - its easy to be arrogantly gung-ho when you have nothing invested in the outcome. Hence all the spurious commentary about "what is best for Iraqis".

first of all, russia cannot even beat chechenya..i have little confidence in them taking on the czech repbulic, much less europe

[mawilson 2,133]

If anything, we need more guns, not less. If other students had guns to defend

themselves with, this would never have happened.

Who knows... Maybe it would have happened sooner!

Maybe so, but 30 people is way too many for a single person to kill. If other students

had guns, he would have been neutralised much sooner.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The best you can find are isolated cases 20 and 10+ years ago, respectively? One of the two wasn't even European but Australian. Australia has, by the way, introduced tighter gun controls in 1996, I believe, following periodic rampages that occured there prior. They haven't had much trouble since with events like this. Fcuking wussies. Time they pick up the guns again and start killing each other more so they don't end up on their knees...

Gun control or no gun control, people who want guns will find a way to get them.

The UK has some of the tightest gun control laws in the world (since Dunblane), but I still know where to get a gun if I need one.

If anything, we need more guns, not less. If other students had guns to defend themselves with, this would never have happened.

Fewer per incident casualties, perhaps but very likely more incidents. More guns = more death. Check the stats and you'll see. No comparable country has the number of victims of gun violence as the US where access to guns is easiest and gun ownership levels are highest. More guns do not make a place safer. Else, Iraq, for example, should be one of the most peaceful places on earth right now with all the firepower and explosives that seem to be spread across the place.

[mawilson 2,133]

first of all, russia cannot even beat chechenya..i have little confidence in them taking on the czech repbulic, much less europe

Almaty, you're seriously underestimating Russia's military might.

Russia has already beaten Chechnya to a bloody pulp; Dudayev was the last straw.

[mybackpages 0]

This is disrespectful to the dead. America hasn't lost its will to fight back.

And neither did the victims at VA Tech. (or the ones on 9/11.) Nice to believe, in your Jack Bauer fantasy, that someone with the will stands up to the bad guy and kicks him with his massive Spartan thighs, and the violence will end, and the hot babe will sex0r you up right then and there.... so it's comforting to you, maybe, to believe that the dead didn't fight back, that had you been there, you would have been able to save yourself.

You know what? There were heroes at VA Tech. Here's some more details. I'll recap briefly. The RA who died seems to have done so confronting the gunman. The professor who threw himself in front of the gunman as he entered, so his students could jump out the fourth floor window. The kid who had the presence of mind when he heard gunshots in the hallway to command his classmates to barricade the doors. The kids who -- some of whom, while already shot -- slammed their classroom door shut to keep the gunman from reentering. The kid who, while holding the door, was shot in the leg, where the bullet pierced the artery, and survived because he fashioned a tourniquet out of a cord. The girl in the first classroom who was smart enough to play dead when it was clear she couldn't do anything else.

Now, none of them tackled the gunman. Maybe that makes them wusses in your book. Seems to me that several survivors of the attack have others to thank for their lives, not to mention we don't know if some tried to rush the gunmen and failed.

Blame the killer and the hijackers, not the victims for not adhering to the B-movie script in your head.

Brava Caladan