The wussifying of America

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

How does that happen when Hong Kong doesn't have the death penalty?

China!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

umm, you are aware that Hong Kong has a seperate government?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

umm, you are aware that Hong Kong has a seperate government?

You are aware that Hong Kong is still considered China? I've been there many times before and after 1997.

"On July 1, 1997 Hong Kong was handed over to the People's Republic of China by the United Kingdom. The old Legislative Council, elected under Chris Patten's reforms, was replaced by the Provisional Legislative Council elected by a selection committee whose members are appointed by the PRC government."

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

They are still a sovereign government that does not have the death penalty

Tell me, why do PRC citizens need to produce a passport to enter Hong Kong?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

They are still a sovereign government that does not have the death penalty

Tell me, why do PRC citizens need to produce a passport to enter Hong Kong?

They are not sovereign. The PRC controls peoples movement even inside China.

HK is part of China. China allows them more freedoms than the mainland. Allows, because it financially beneficial to them.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

and one of those things they allow is to establish their own laws, including hte abolition of the death penalty

there are many problems with the way HK is governed - giving up prisoners to execute for body organs is not one of them

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

and one of those things they allow is to establish their own laws, including hte abolition of the death penalty

there are many problems with the way HK is governed - giving up prisoners to execute for body organs is not one of them

It's still part of China. Paint it however you like to make yourself feel better.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

So it has the same laws as China then? No it does not. Continuing to say it's "part of china" doesn't change that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So it has the same laws as China then? No it does not. Continuing to say it's "part of china" doesn't change that.

Perhaps Japan should be pointed out again - which has a low crime rate despite the heavy restrictions on firearms, on indeed hardly anyone owns a gun.

[mawilson 2,133]

So it has the same laws as China then? No it does not. Continuing to say it's "part of china" doesn't change that.

Perhaps Japan should be pointed out again - which has a low crime rate despite the heavy restrictions on firearms, on indeed hardly anyone owns a gun.

Let's not point out any police states, please. Japan may be a "polite police state"

but it's still a police state.

"Japanese cops move up in their career when they make "good" arrests and go down permanently

when they make "wrong" arrests. Japan has a 99.9% conviction rate, so you can guess how many

wrong arrests are turned into "good" arrests by forcing confessions and such."

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I wonder how that analogy compares to the US, with its ambitious public prosecutors?

Japanese Police

Public order and internal security in Japan

Edited April 20, 2007 by erekose

[mawilson 2,133]

I wonder how that analogy compares to the US, with its ambitious public prosecutors?

Japanese Police

Public order and internal security in Japan

The American justice system usually gets it right. There are some aberrations,

such as the OJ case, but most of the time the system works very well.

The Japanese system looks very good on paper, but in reality it's seriously flawed.

If you're a foreigner in Japan, you can forget about justice.

[Robor007 0]

Slim...like many other posters here, I really don't understand your point. Sometimes people have to play smart...

As for the posters who believe more people should carry guns with them in case anything happens they can defend themselves...here's an insight --- I'm from Hong Kong, China, a city where no citizens is allowed to own guns. And you can find that in research, Hong Kong is one of the cities in the world that has the lowest crime rate. So...is that saying anything?

Apples and Oranges. You are comparing a city to a country. I've been to HK and it doesn't compare demographically to the US in any respect. Poverty= high crime in the USA but not Hong Kong. Guns are banned in Washington DC but it has the highest crime rate in the USA.

And Washington DC is a city surrounded by a country filled with 300+ million guns.

And Hong Kong is in a country where they execute prisoners to sell their organs to South Korea. I'll take the USA thanks.

Nowhere did I say HK > USA. My point is more guns = more gun violence.

[peejay 327]

Here is an interesting little article on gun laws / ownership and the relation to the murder rate in various countries:

The Numbers Speak For Themselves

Despite anti-gun propaganda, the U.S. murder rate is nowhere near that of many other countries.

By John Hay Rabb

Here's a pop quiz for you: Which country in the world has the highest murder rate? If you said the United States, you would be wrong, but your error would certainly be excusable. The incessant drumbeat from the mainstream media and anti-gun groups serves to perpetuate the canard that the U.S. is the bloodiest free-fire zone on earth. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In his article "America: The Most Violent Nation?" researcher David C. Stolinsky shows conclusively that there are a number of countries with higher murder rates than the U.S. This information comes from the United Nations report "The 1996 Demographic Yearbook." The report lists the murder rates in some 86 countries. There are more than 200 countries in the world, and more than 100 did not provide murder-rate data to the U.N. Even so, the Yearbook opens a fascinating window on the failure of gun-control laws around the world.

The connection between murder rates and gun control is quite clear. The vast majority of murders are committed with firearms. Therefore, it is possible to determine if there is any sort of correlation between gun laws and murder rates in selected countries.

Gun laws, like all laws, should be evaluated to determine if they meet accepted measures of success. Gun-control advocates contend that gun laws reduce murders as well as other gun crimes. An examination of this proposition shows conclusively that gun laws fail to reduce murder rates in many countries. Therefore, they fail to meet the fundamental measure of success and should be amended or repealed.

A 1997 Justice Department report on murders in the U.S. shows that our country has a murder rate of seven victims per 100,000 population per year. There are a number of well-known examples of countries with more liberal gun laws and lower murder rates than the U.S. One is Finland, with a murder rate of 2.9. Israel is another example; although its population is heavily armed, Israel's murder rate is only 1.4. In Switzerland, gun ownership is a way of life. Its murder rate is 2.7.

By contrast, consider Brazil. All firearms in Brazil must be registered with the government. This registration process can take anywhere from 30 days to three months. All civilian handguns are limited in caliber to no more than 9mm. All rifles must fire handgun ammunition only. Brazilians may only buy one gun per year. At any one time, they may only have in their possession a maximum of six guns: two handguns, two rifles and two shotguns. To transport their guns, citizens must obtain a special police permit. CCW permits are available but are rarely issued.

Therefore, it should not be a revelation to anyone that Brazil has a thriving black market in guns. Virtually any type of gun is available, for a price. Incidentally, Brazil's murder rate is 19 victims per 100,000 population per year.

In Cuba, Fidel Castro controls every aspect of life with an iron hand, including gun ownership. Castro remembers well how he and his rag-tag armed Communist rebels overthrew the government of Fulgencio Batista and set up a Communist dictatorship. An armed populace is threatening to a repressive government. Still, somebody in Cuba is obtaining guns and using them to murder fellow citizens. Cuba's murder rate is 7.8.

The former Soviet state of Lithuania is now an independent democratic country. But it still retains some vestiges of Stalinism. Lithuania's citizens must obtain a police permit to buy a gun. All guns are registered with the government. Somehow these restrictions are not deterring the criminal element; Lithuania has an unenviable murder rate of 11.7.

Gun control in Mexico is a fascinating case study. Mexican gun laws are simply draconian. No civilian may own a gun larger than .22 caliber, and a permit is required to buy one. All guns in Mexico are registered with the Ministry Of Defense. Guns may not be carried in public, either openly or concealed.

Mexican authorities seem to take a particular delight in arresting and imprisoning unwitting Americans who are not familiar with Mexican gun laws. Americans may not bring legal guns or ammunition into Mexico. Possession of even one bullet can get you thrown in a medieval Mexican prison. The State Department says that at any one time there are about 80 Americans imprisoned in Mexico for minor gun crimes. The State Department even went so far as to issue a special notice to U.S. gun owners, warning about harsh Mexican gun laws. Americans are allowed to hunt in Mexico, but they must first obtain a permit from the Mexican Embassy or a Mexican Consulate before taking their hunting rifles south of the border.

Mexico's murder rate is an eye-popping 17.5. Mexican authorities are fond of blaming the high murder rate on firearms smuggled across the border from the United States. Nonsense. The U.S. has many more personal guns than Mexico, yet our murder rate is far lower than Mexico's. It is Mexico's absurd gun laws that prevent law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves against illegally armed criminals.

Guns are effectively outlawed in Russia. Private handgun ownership is totally prohibited. A permit is required to purchase a long gun. All guns are registered with authorities. When transporting a long gun, it must be disassembled. Long guns may only be used for self-defense when the gun owner is on his own property. By the way, Russia's murder rate is a staggering 30.6.

It is surprising to learn that there is gun trouble in the tropical paradises of Trinidad and Tobago. Here a permit is required to purchase a gun. All guns are registered with the police. In spite of (or perhaps because of) these restrictions, Trinidad and Tobago together have a murder rate of 11.7.

In all fairness, it must be noted that many of the countries with high murder rates have governments and cultures very different from our own. Even so, the fundamental measure of gun-control success still applies. The countries I have discussed, along with many others, have gun laws that are more restrictive than U.S. laws, yet their murder rates exceed the U.S. murder rate. These laws clearly do not meet the fundamental measure of success, which is ultimately to save lives.

What anti-gunners all over the world fail to understand is that people everywhere are basically the same in one important respect. They are determined to protect themselves and their families. If their governments will not allow them to have firearms for self-defense, then they may obtain guns illegally, even at the risk of harsh punishment. It is a natural human response to danger.

Try as they might, Sarah Brady and her bunch will never be able to defeat man's primal instinct to protect himself and his family through whatever means necessary. This fundamental human truth may offer some small measure of comfort to law-abiding gun owners around the world.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/rk0405/

Edited April 20, 2007 by peejay

[Robor007 0]

'In all fairness, it must be noted that many of the countries with high murder rates have governments and cultures very different from our own. '

IMO that is the most important sentence in that article.