The wussifying of America

[Caladan 19]

No one was lined up at VATech, it seems. He just shot methodically and quickly, and said nothing.

[mawilson 2,133]

Doesn't anyone find it strange though that after the initial shooting, the guy just up and went

to the post-office to mail his video, without any interference from anyone? He left the building,

and everyone was so happy that no-one considered following him to the post-office? Huh?

[mybackpages 0]

Considering that one Vjer knows one of the people killed the other day, relating this "wussification" idea to the events in VA is not only tactless, but downright disgusting. IMHO...

There is also more than a hint of blame the victim mentality in this thread. As if somehow the victim must take some of the responsibility for his victimization. Theoretical debate over what people should do in situations like this belittles the tragedy and suggest nothing productive to adressing the larger problem.- even accidentally or indirectly.

[Peikko 1,575]

Not really, like everything about this incident, it was probably mischance. It was early in the morning, if no one saw him leave the crime scene, why would they suspect him of anything? After all he was a student at the college, he wasn't anywhere he shouldn't have been and carrying a back pack is hardly a suspicious activity on campus.

It's a sad and tragic event and this endless speculation of i'f this' and 'if that' certainly can't change what has happened and are unlikely to prevent a future incident precisely because they are acts that are so unlikely and implausable, carried out by such irrational people, that there is no reliable way to prevent them.

Doesn't anyone find it strange though that after the initial shooting, the guy just up and went

to the post-office to mail his video, without any interference from anyone? He left the building,

and everyone was so happy that no-one considered following him to the post-office? Huh?

Edited April 20, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[wong_watkins 1]

Slim...like many other posters here, I really don't understand your point. Sometimes people have to play smart...

As for the posters who believe more people should carry guns with them in case anything happens they can defend themselves...here's an insight --- I'm from Hong Kong, China, a city where no citizens is allowed to own guns. And you can find that in research, Hong Kong is one of the cities in the world that has the lowest crime rate. So...is that saying anything?

[Niels Bohr 72]

Hmm...Prevention....

It's not a matter of how to do it, it's a matter of knowing when to do it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Or just using common-sense.

I think the police (and indeed martial arts instructors that I've had have said this also) that if accosted by someone you really be focussed on trying to get away - not getting mixed up in a brawl. Still if weapons are involved - you're better off giving the person what they want. Its very difficult to defend against someone with a knife, and with a gun you can forget it. The "have a go hero" has a tendency of getting themselves and other people killed.

[Heracles 417]

Doesn't anyone find it strange though that after the initial shooting, the guy just up and went

to the post-office to mail his video, without any interference from anyone? He left the building,

and everyone was so happy that no-one considered following him to the post-office? Huh?

Um. I do not think anybody saw him carry out the first murders. I though the 2 dead students where discovered later on by a nearby roommate..

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Ever been involved in a firedrill at a corporate office? They are generally complete fiascos.

No, only at Nuclear Weapons facilities and Nuclear Power plants. I was trained in firefighting in the Navy too. No 911 in the middle of the Pacific.

look... be honest. you don't like guns.. fine. So ANYTHING you say is tainted by your prejudice.

What's wrong with training your family for an emergency? A FAMILY not a corporate office. Nothing is wrong with it but you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I do that too but at least I admit it. No plan is perfect but to not plan is imperfect.

They tell women to yell and put up a fight if they are about to be raped. Does it work 100%? ###### no. But it's better than nothing. There is some efficacy.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Slim...like many other posters here, I really don't understand your point. Sometimes people have to play smart...

As for the posters who believe more people should carry guns with them in case anything happens they can defend themselves...here's an insight --- I'm from Hong Kong, China, a city where no citizens is allowed to own guns. And you can find that in research, Hong Kong is one of the cities in the world that has the lowest crime rate. So...is that saying anything?

Apples and Oranges. You are comparing a city to a country. I've been to HK and it doesn't compare demographically to the US in any respect. Poverty= high crime in the USA but not Hong Kong. Guns are banned in Washington DC but it has the highest crime rate in the USA.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ever been involved in a firedrill at a corporate office? They are generally complete fiascos.

No, only at Nuclear Weapons facilities and Nuclear Power plants. I was trained in firefighting in the Navy too. No 911 in the middle of the Pacific.

look... be honest. you don't like guns.. fine. So ANYTHING you say is tainted by your prejudice.

What's wrong with training your family for an emergency? A FAMILY not a corporate office. Nothing is wrong with it but you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I do that too but at least I admit it. No plan is perfect but to not plan is imperfect.

They tell women to yell and put up a fight if they are about to be raped. Does it work 100%? ###### no. But it's better than nothing. There is some efficacy.

I don't think I've ever said or implied that people should do nothing - just that its very easy to speculate about what people "should do" in traumatic, highly stressful situations when you've not faced them yourself. In the case of VA Tech shootings, the best plan in the world won't help you when you're literally two seconds away from taking a bullet in the face. You cannot plan for every eventuality, nor should is it particularly useful for people to go around paranoid that they are going to be victims of crazed lunatics.

Edited April 20, 2007 by erekose

[Ban Hammer 13,625]

I don't think I've ever said or implied that people should do nothing - just that its very easy to speculate about what people "should do" in traumatic, highly stressful situations when you've not faced them yourself.

one of murphy's rules of combat - doing anything in a combat zone can get you shot, including nothing.

[ivona 0]

I just listened to a press conference with a mother and a brother of two students in the French class where 12 were killed...

By the time they realised what they heard was shots, and said to call 911 and baricade the door he was shooting at that door with splinters flying. He entered and metodically started cleaning out the room, the sister of the guy at the conference was behind the cabinet, as much as you can be "behind a cabinet" in a classroom. She was shot twice, hips area and shoulder. The son of the mother was under the desk. There was no thinking, no talking- gunman entered the room and went from peron to person shooting them down in a matter of seconds. The boy was also shot two times.

As they tell it, the gunman then left the room only to return a few mintues later to "finish off ones still alive". These two victims explain the deadly quiet that enveloped with only the shots heard. The girl was shot in the head this time and only luck saved her because the gunman was led to believe that the head wounds was serious due to the amount of blood around her that turned out to be from another victim. The boy was also shot in the head in that second run.

The gunman shot himself after being "satisfied" with the job, I guess

They both said that they couldn't bring themselves to look into his eyes in that first rampage. The girl had her eyes closed the whole time of the incident, even when the cops stormed in- both of them were hearing the cops tagging bodies for triage...they still did not move. The girl raised her hand to indicate she was alive before making a few steps and colapsing.

My point is, when you go into class in the morning you do not expect a fellow student to come in and start methodically executing people. Even if you come from a family who had "drills" every single day, you still would not be prepared. No amount of planning and preparation can prepare you for such a schoking removal from your everyday life.

[homesick_american 1]

Apples and Oranges. You are comparing a city to a country. I've been to HK and it doesn't compare demographically to the US in any respect. Poverty= high crime in the USA but not Hong Kong. Guns are banned in Washington DC but it has the highest crime rate in the USA.

Guns are banned in DC? Really?

[mybackpages 0]

Apples and Oranges. You are comparing a city to a country. I've been to HK and it doesn't compare demographically to the US in any respect. Poverty= high crime in the USA but not Hong Kong. Guns are banned in Washington DC but it has the highest crime rate in the USA.

Guns are banned in DC? Really?

Last month the federal appeals court overturned the law banning gun ownership in DC since 1976.

ETA Rich, some argue this ban helped reduce the high crime rate in DC. It is still high, but it has been higher.

Edited April 20, 2007 by mybackpages