Immigration & Racism

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21 minutes ago, IAMX said:

If we're going to be frank, I think part of what allowed 9/11 to happen was the fact that scrutiny was applied, could have been applied further, and wasn't.

 

Likewise, when you have extremists living in your community for such a long time, I think it speaks to a greater problem I will identify as follows:

 

- People nowadays are even less social than before. People tend to lock themselves away in their houses and never socialize. As such, they are far more prone to "freak out" in public, they are far more prone to social problems like panic disorders, and they're far more prone to go psycho over social occurrences that people who are around others more often would be able to handle more easily.

 

What this has to do with terrorism is that, in people keeping away from others, they're inadvertently bypassing one of the best methods of identifying extremism.. when getting to know people, it's a lot easier to identify extremist elements before they can foster, or to get those elements on the radar of the community, and thus, the local and national authorities. And the only thing one needs to do is get out and socialize with those around them.

 

But people are lazy, they want the government to be doing all the effort. That's how you got all two dozen 9/11 hijackers in the US for many years not being on community radars, some of whom learned to fly in the US -- no alarm bells?? Sometimes it can be explained with simple politeness, in other cases, or in my opinion, I'd say in many cases nowadays, it's due to increasing unsociable attitudes. In some ways we can attribute that to people sitting in front of their computer and TVs all day, but I personally dismiss this for myself mainly because of how I do things. I post on many forums, some political, some consumerist/product, some local community forums. All my posts for half of yesterday was from work. Then I picked up wife and daughter, and we spent 2 hours at the Keg to eat, where I not only posted more (via tablet and phone) but socialized with the people around us (the server we had from Ukraine, the group in the large table next to us from Italy), then we went shopping at Costco, filled up the car, went to IKEA, then Walmart. I occasionally posted more, but I also socialized with people along the way. So in this case, my increased time around computers hasn't affected my ability to socialize and mingle with others. Doing so, I also put myself out there for criticism, which helps me moderate my behavior. However, for many people, they shut themselves off from social environments, which manifests itself when they do find themselves in that environment, they freak out. Staying away from people likewise allows extremist elements to foster.

 

So while I could suggest that government do more scrutinizing, it's also up to the populace to do their part as well, not to presume everyone that "looks" like they might be Muslim as a suspect and treat them that way, but get to know people, know who you're around, and if there's anything suspicious about it, talk to other people about it, and if necessary, report to authorities.

You know I was talking about this the other day with my husband. He was wondering if the Netherlands are safe since we will be traveling over there very soon. And it occurred to me that no terrorist attacks have taken place since the Hofstad group in I believe 2003.

 

I hope there will never be an attack again. But why is it that all the other surrounding countries get attacked over and over again? I believe it has to do with the way the AIVD the Dutch Secret Service works to fight terrorism. They actually work with people from the minorities. They made sure they have ears and eyes there and they monitor all the extremists cells. I'm aware that the US is a much bigger country with different states. But I think that if the US stops to see ALL Muslims as a potential terrorist rather than an ally alot of damage can be avoided. But that's just my two cents :-)

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10 minutes ago, IAMX said:

For those of us who can't take hints (myself), can you elaborate? I know I shouldn't be, but I'm interested. 

Lol let me put it this way, some European men like Arab boys and apparently they find what they are looking for I'm Morocco.

 

Years ago I was in Marrakech and went to a cyber cafe ( no smartphones yet at that time) and I was waiting for a computer to free up. At some point a very good looking man ( European) finished, but he forgot to click away the pages he looked up. It was an eye-opener to me cause they were all about where to meet Moroccan gays.

[IAMX 3,055]

5 minutes ago, Beachlover said:

You know I was talking about this the other day with my husband. He was wondering if the Netherlands are safe since we will be traveling over there very soon. And it occurred to me that no terrorist attacks have taken place since the Hofstad group in I believe 2003.

 

I hope there will never be an attack again. But why is it that all the other surrounding countries get attacked over and over again? I believe it has to do with the way the AIVD the Dutch Secret Service works to fight terrorism. They actually work with people from the minorities. They made sure they have ears and eyes there and they monitor all the extremists cells. I'm aware that the US is a much bigger country with different states. But I think that if the US stops to see ALL Muslims as a potential terrorist rather than an ally alot of damage can be avoided. But that's just my two cents :-)

Having been to the Netherlands, people there are also extremely social.. and spend exorbitant amounts of money on social events. Social awareness is high, not only does that bode well for people who wish to integrate, as there will be no shortage of social avenues, but for being able to identify and root out terrorism, it certainly makes it easier.

Just now, Beachlover said:

Lol let me put it this way, some European men like Arab boys and apparently they find what they are looking for I'm Morocco.

 

Years ago I was in Marrakech and went to a cyber cafe ( no smartphones yet at that time) and I was waiting for a computer to free up. At some point a very good looking man ( European) finished, but he forgot to click away the pages he looked up. It was an eye-opener to me cause they were all about where to meet Moroccan gays.

So basically it sounds like Kuwait City. LOL.

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1 minute ago, IAMX said:

Having been to the Netherlands, people there are also extremely social.. and spend exorbitant amounts of money on social events. Social awareness is high, not only does that bode well for people who wish to integrate, as there will be no shortage of social avenues, but for being able to identify and root out terrorism, it certainly makes it easier.

It took some time and some horrible killings ( murder of Theo van Gogh) and sometimes the minorities still clash with certain politicians (Wilders). But overall minorities see them selves as part of the Dutch culture. The biggest fear now is the ex IS members returning but I think that they will handle that properly. 

[IAMX 3,055]

Just now, Beachlover said:

It took some time and some horrible killings ( murder of Theo van Gogh) and sometimes the minorities still clash with certain politicians (Wilders). But overall minorities see them selves as part of the Dutch culture. The biggest fear now is the ex IS members returning but I think that they will handle that properly. 

I sure hope so.

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7 minutes ago, IAMX said:

 

So basically it sounds like Kuwait City. LOL.

See I have never been to Kuwait ( will ask my husband since he has been there) but yeah it might be the same. Biggest attraction on the famous Djema Fna square are three men dressed as women and dancing and talking like woman. It has been like that since years.

[IAMX 3,055]

1 minute ago, Beachlover said:

See I have never been to Kuwait ( will ask my husband since he has been there) but yeah it might be the same. Biggest attraction on the famous Djema Fna square are three men dressed as women and dancing and talking like woman. It has been like that since years.

Forget the beaches.. that's where the real entertainment is at. 

[OriZ 3,157]

On 8/19/2017 at 3:38 PM, Beachlover said:

The main mistake people make is talking about the "Islamic World". Maybe that's why some folks think that Muslim is a race :-)

Turkey is a country with mostly Muslims ( officially religion and state are separated) but it has/had a gay pride and several transsexual celebrities. Meaning there is not such a thing as the Islamic World, SA is not comparable to Iran or to Turkey and neither to Morocco. All those countries have their own different cultures, customs and languages.

 

On 8/19/2017 at 4:27 PM, Beachlover said:

Have you ever been to one of those countries? I can guarantee you that it's not living in the 1700's. Yes certain areas they are very undeveloped ( but FYI, some Europeans think the same about America still living in the 50"s, do you think they are right?). But other areas are as modern and progressive as some Western countries.

 

Yes Turkey banned the gay parade, but my point is that at some point it was possible (Erdogan changed that) even when it wasn't possible in certain Western countries.

 

Don't worry, no one is bringing anything to America, but you can't ignore the fact that globalization will change cultures, yes even the American.

Turkey is a secular country, although Erdogan is slowly changing that. Many Muslim countries are not. Turkey is or was the exception, can't use it as the rule. Yes, some areas are very modern, especially some of the Gulf states...but there are places living in the 1700s...maybe 1800s if you're lucky.

Edited August 21, 2017 by OriZ

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15 minutes ago, OriZ said:

 

Turkey is a secular country, although Erdogan is slowly changing that. Many Muslim countries are not. Turkey is or was the exception, can't use it as the rule. Yes, some areas are very modern, especially some of the Gulf states...but there are places living in the 1700s...maybe 1800s if you're lucky.

Tunesian was a secular country too. I'm pretty sure those two aren't/weren't the only ones.

There are places in America that are living in the 1700/1800 too....