Moving Guide

[CountryBoy 0]

Yodrak,

That was the purpose of my question to Captain Ewok in this thread .. If a post is completely out of place, and it has to be moved .. then move it, but in doing so include on the thread list "moved to __________ general discussion forum" or whatever, don't just assume that the poster (or members browsing the forum) know where it is going. If you just move it, they will not learn anything. Educate them so that they know which forum has posts that are similar to the one that HAS to be moved because it is so off topic .. Also, when it is their turn to make a similar post, they know just where to go because you as a mover have told them right on the thread list.

However, if a post is relevant in 2 different forums, then first and foremost it should remain in the original forum as the post (not as a referenced link) because it was posted correctly in the first place .. thus the reason for my method of leaving it there. Because Captain Ewok said that it cannot be done another way at this time, I am just experimenting in ways to get the job accomplished.

I'm not asking you to understand why a poster posted something where they did, refer to the above .. if it is off topic move and tag the post "moved to ....." if it is on topic for more than one forum .. use the method that I have suggested so that the post remains in the original forum and the reference link is in the second forum.

Thanks again for participating in this.

CB

jenn,

I think that's a bit of an understatement. It calls upon Organizers to understand why the poster posted where they did in the first place. My sense is that in most cases the reason is some variation of because they don't know any better, and they can learn something - about the site and about immigration - by seeing the move.

Yodrak

......

IMO, I think it's a bit complicated.

[CountryBoy 0]

Please don't make this personal and tell me to get lost. (if that is your intention) This discussion is for all to read, and I really am trying to help .. honest.

It is all about on topic and off topic .. not about choices, not about me, not about you .. about the community as whole.

Like I said in my previous post .. if it is COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC, by all means move it ..

Thanks

CB

CB,

Seems to me that what you need is a personal mailing list, not a public forum.

Are you sure that all "the people there" want to read your posts when they're off topic for that forum? Maybe the odd rare person might not care for your choices.

Yodrak

Yodrak,

.....

I make a post in my forum of choice, I post it there because I want the people there to read it and share ideas, joys etc. .. and I want it to be able to continue to bump to the top of that forum as people reply to it. .....

CB

Edited April 19, 2007 by CountryBoy

[MichelleandCraig 1]

CB,

I understand the concept of what you're getting at...and I don't see why it would be too much of a problem if it was *really* important to the poster that it stay there. On the other hand, if everyone all of a sudden just starts typing, 'please do not move' then what's the point of even trying to change things in the first place? We're right back to where we started--which I realize is what some people want...but it's not what we, and Cap. Ewok, ultimately...decided to try.

Also, I FAIL to understand this and have said it time and time again. I am not saying this in a patronizing tone at all(as it is very hard to tell over the Internet, I know) but I *AM* extremely frustrated with it. WHY OH WHY would a mover have to type *anything* at all in the thread to say where it was moved to??? If you simply *click the link and follow the thread to its new location* you will SEE what forum it's in. If that's too much to ask someone to do (to simply look at which forum they're in) then I don't think anyone has the right to be asking any mover to "move it here and don't leave a link, then move it there and do leave one, then move it back and...." Do you know what I mean? Again, don't mean that rudely at all...but it shouldn't be too much to ask someone just to pay attention to the forum they're in when they get back to the thread by clicking the link and therefore learn where those type of threads should be posted in that way. This has been gone over time and time again...I just don't see why it's hard to follow a thread.

Things like touches and whathaveyou are not really that important to share with your friends are they? However, if you do think they are...and that's certainly alright of course! then just post it in the proper forum...for bigger news....like NOA2....if you post it in the subforum where it should go....also put it in your siggy for a while or something if you want everyone to see it...it will be in every post you make, and believe me, your friends will notice!

I think you had a good idea, and no...please feel confident in the fact that it's *not* the additional "work" I'm worried about at all...I just don't think it's really necesary. We're trying to change the way people post...if we ultimately bring the post back to where it was in the first place we're all "learning" nothing. M.

[CountryBoy 0]

MichelleAndCraig,

I don't like the idea of a poster putting "Please do not move" on a thread either, it is questioning your responsibility as an organizer/scout

Why would a mover have type anything?

hmmm, if I had been here since October 2004 I would be very comfortable navigating thru the forum .. but I just signed up in December, what would it hurt for a mover to assist me by telling me .. ok poster, there is a correct forum for you to make this post .. and it is here, and by the way anyone reading this if you want to read more posts of this nature, or if by some chance you ever want to make a post like this please do so in the ________ forum.

I didn't even know that you could navigate to the forum where the post was being moved to by clicking the link at the top of the page until I really looked for it. It is like expecting someone to learn Quantum Physics by handing them a book and saying, figure it out for yourself (it wasn't really that bad) but why make them search, educate them ..

I think, if you impliment this part of my suggestion and follow the moving guides as Captain Ewok has outlined them then posters will pick up on it and you won't see as many misplaced posts .. thus less moving and less having to type where the post was moved.

At least Captain Ewok thought it was a good idea .. hopefully this part happens.

I am not asking you to return off topic posts .. I am just trying to place a reference link to the post in another forum where it is also on topic.

it isn't all about yippeee forum, k-1 in general ..

CB

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Hi again CB...

I don't quite understand the last bit...about the reference link and not asking anyone to 'return topics'. I thought that's what your request was all about(basically...aside from writing where the thread was moved to within the thread itself).... ?

If we move a thread perm., there is *always* a link left behind to follow.

If we move a thread temporarily, leave a reference in the "new" forum, and then move it back to the original forum as you first suggested (which, no offense intended at all, is pointless to me... (as it would only cause people to continue to make those type of posts in that forum where they didn't actually belong).....then there would be no reason to leave a reference because the original post would be there. I know you meant "off topic" posts...but the reason the posts are moved to begin with is because the mover feels it is "off topic" or MUCH better served in a different forum...that will be the only reason from now on....Cap. has advised us not to move any threads that can easily fit in two forums or are in a "gray" area...so we won't be doing that.

However, that doesn't mean that people should still post "Hey, I got my NOA2!" in the K1 forum...because there has been a *specific* forum created just FOR those type of threads...and your friends (if you know what I'm getting at...that you want to see your celebrations,etc...) are meant to get to know that they should visit that forum looking for those type of threads. If you were looking for advice/experiences on interviews in London, for example, you wouldn't visit the off topic forum...know what I mean? It just has to be gradually learned that the new subforum is the place to go for celebrations...that's all...a learning curve is all we really need here and things will improve.

As far as placing...this thread has been moved to...blah blah blah....I can only see one problem with that. I have skipped over threads that I've later seen moved. I have also moved a few that maybe others wouldn't have...who knows? I've tried to be careful, but as has already been stated...the movers aren't going to agree *every* time on what should be moved where. Why should we have to leave our name behind on every single thread so people can analyze us continually (as is already happening now even without that!) like 'Oh, I made this thread and Michelle moved it to here and etc etc etc..." You know? I don't move unless I'm pretty certain it should be...so it's not me wanting to be accountable...but there WILL be people that will complain about it...trust me....we all gripe about stuff to a certain extent..and I just don't think it has to be "out there" for all to see.

Aside from that, I AGAIN see no reason to have to type that....I really don't think people have to be spood fed THAT much, do you?? If you can simply scroll to the top OR bottom of the screen and see what forum you've been taken to (using an impersonal "you" here), that should certainly be enough. I'm certain people are fully capable of reading and saying to themselves "Oh. I probably should have posted that here. Well, now I know." Do you see what I'm saying? I don't really think it's necessary at all. If you still think it is we'll have to agree to disagree. The ideas are good and I can tell you are trying to be helpful, we just don't happen to see eye to eye on this one...I'm not sure how others feel about it, so I can only speak for myself as always. M.

PS...I'm also not quite sure what you meant by "clicking the link at the top of the page and it being like physics.." hehe....the link is right in the normal threads...it has the same title and everything (as I'm sure you know...) it just says moved next to it and has -- in the views and reply boxes...you simply click on THAT thread and it brings you to the new forum automatically. You can simply go back one page when you're done to get to where you were before by using the back button on your browser. Hope this helps, or maybe you knew that all already... dunno. M.

Edited April 19, 2007 by MichelleandCraig

[MichelleandCraig 1]

In addition, to address the question of why so many moved in K1 and not elsewhere...another answer.

I just looked in the K3 forum and if you go in there today...there are *plenty* of threads that would be moved if they were titled in the same way and in the K1 forum. As it stands right now though, there is no forum in which to move those threads. I was also one of the ones under the impression, initually, that the new subforum would include ALL yippee/celebration posts, continuing journey (such as "what's taking so long and transfers, etc.) but since it's not and K3 doesn't (at least yet) have a subforum, they stay there.

Just another reason why as many aren't being moved from there for those who were wondering. (Karin & Otto, you come to mind first...) M.

Edited April 19, 2007 by MichelleandCraig

[CountryBoy 0]

M,

You and I will have to agree to disagree ..

I hope you know that I am trying to resolve the issues of so many complaining about the moved threads. Do you honestly think that by taking your approach and doing nothing (or continuing to move threads SO MUCH without educating the member) that the issue will be resolved? Why should every member coming into the community have to learn because the "movers" are unwilling to change their moving technique and the posters are told basically, "figure it out for yourself and don't complain because I have the authority to say so and don't care what you think." Something really does have to change. Maybe the entire layout of the site to make it more user friendly .. who knows.

I am not trying to spoon feel the members at vj, just educate them .. and yes I do think they need THAT MUCH, otherwise I wouldn't keep repeating it over and over ..

as far as moving back goes .. I'll abandon that one. It was simply a way to try and put a referencing link on the second forums thread list. I guess if any post in a forum is on topic whatsoever, then it don't move it as Captain Ewok has outlined in the guides. The people that look in the other forum can just miss out on that information.

CB

[Yodrak 7]

CB,

VJers are welcome to look in more than one forum - they should be encouraged to look in more than one forum. Immigration should not be as complicated as chess, but even checkers players think ahead more than just one move.

Yodrak

.....The people that look in the other forum can just miss out on that information.

CB

[rebeccajo 14]

Country Boy, I'm curious.....

You say 'so many' are complaining about thread moving. Are there really a LOT of people unhappy about it? I'm seriously asking because I don't know.

[CountryBoy 0]

rebeccajo,

you replied to a thread within the last few days that just seemed to never end about the issue of moving posts .. I think that is pretty concrete evidence; of course in the big picture, maybe only the ones that are truly vocal about the issue replied. As far as an actual percentage of users goes, I couldn't tell unless I put a poll in the forum (which I'm sure would get moved) about the issue and could convince people to reply to it.

CB

Country Boy, I'm curious.....

You say 'so many' are complaining about thread moving. Are there really a LOT of people unhappy about it? I'm seriously asking because I don't know.

[CountryBoy 0]

Yodrak,

I stated at the beginning of that paragraph that I would abandon that suggestion since I had no support on the issue.

I agree that everyone should think ahead more than just one move, but I hope you will agree that it is hard to do when you don't understand the game.

I still believe, and Captain Ewok agreed, that it is a good idea to let the members know in the tread list where a moved post is currently located (in order to educate members on properly posting messages to the correct forum and let them know where like posts would be located as well) Hopefully this can be done by way of configuration of the forum software so that it has the least impact on organizers and scouts.

CB

CB,

VJers are welcome to look in more than one forum - they should be encouraged to look in more than one forum. Immigration should not be as complicated as chess, but even checkers players think ahead more than just one move.

Yodrak

.....The people that look in the other forum can just miss out on that information.

CB

[Yodrak 7]

CB,

Yes, it is hard to do when one does not understand the game. That's why one should take advantage of the VJ Guides and Visa FAQ, and the USCIS How Do I web pages, and read more posts than they write for a while - in more than 1 forum.

I agree with you and Captain Ewok that showing where the move was to in the original thread would be a good idea, and would add a nice touch if it can be implemented. Until then, one can find the thread and where the thread has gone by clicking on the link left behind.

Yodrak

Yodrak,

.....

I agree that everyone should think ahead more than just one move, but I hope you will agree that it is hard to do when you don't understand the game.

I still believe, and Captain Ewok agreed, that it is a good idea to let the members know in the tread list where a moved post is currently located (in order to educate members on properly posting messages to the correct forum and let them know where like posts would be located as well) Hopefully this can be done by way of configuration of the forum software so that it has the least impact on organizers and scouts.

CB

CB,

VJers are welcome to look in more than one forum - they should be encouraged to look in more than one forum. Immigration should not be as complicated as chess, but even checkers players think ahead more than just one move.

Yodrak

.....The people that look in the other forum can just miss out on that information.

CB

[MichelleandCraig 1]

...but does anyone have an answer to the problem of the mover having to leave his/her name in each thread they move? As I've stated...I have no problem with anyone knowing any thread I've moved...*except* for the fact that a lot of people get uptight if any of their threads are moved...and they will know just who to complain about/to in those cases. It could end up being a real pain for the movers...not the writing of the words...the aftereffects.

Some people couldn't care less if the thread is moved...they understand why. Others? Well...I can just see it being a problem is all. M.

[Jenn! 918]

...but does anyone have an answer to the problem of the mover having to leave his/her name in each thread they move? As I've stated...I have no problem with anyone knowing any thread I've moved...*except* for the fact that a lot of people get uptight if any of their threads are moved...and they will know just who to complain about/to in those cases. It could end up being a real pain for the movers...not the writing of the words...the aftereffects.

Some people couldn't care less if the thread is moved...they understand why. Others? Well...I can just see it being a problem is all. M.

I agree that this is a drawback. Maybe Ewok knows of a way to automaticaly generate a post when a thread is moved.

[meauxna 15]

...but does anyone have an answer to the problem of the mover having to leave his/her name in each thread they move?

I agree that this is a drawback. Maybe Ewok knows of a way to automaticaly generate a post when a thread is moved.

OMG-- please say you are kidding.. isn't the idea less posts?

No way movers should have to put their names on the move, either. This isn't a democracy. If Ewok and his Army say 'this is how it is' .. oh I'm not getting into all this again.

I think we have a situation here where CB actually *does* do what he does on purpose. Unfortunately, the other 99% don't do it on purpose. They just do it.

CB: you are actually more 'one of us' than you know.. you want the same thing, and you think about how to get it.

The cross posting topic does belong in this discussion, actually. The problem isn't 'wherer to post' now, it's "I want my special club to know about my posts" which is really getting back to the whole MENA breakdown and having 'special' audiences.

Again: too much slicing and dicing.. lump more together, put the yipppees in their own forum and do things that encourage people to read/post in more than one forum.

Edit to add: none of this is actually getting to the core of the problem, which is letting users know what the guidelines are and that they, as users of the site, are expected to be good citizens and post the way board management wants. This is not new and it's not cruel--it's the way of almost every message board community I use/visit.

Edited April 19, 2007 by meauxna