Issues and Problems

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

go be happy aicha and fight hard for your love.I wish you the best....

[aicha 0]

What none of you seem to understand is, YOU ARE NOT THE PETITIONER. You are not requesting a visa, the man is. This is because of evidence of MENA (Morocco in particular) being high fraud. You are not being oppressed here. These men are being denied visas, not you women.

Can we say this just a little louder please. This is correct. The burden of proof is on the fiance/husband to prove he is qualified to receive the visa. We would see less denials if more people understand the process better.

The sad part about this is when you hire an attorney who has been in the immigration business part of law for over 17 years and he does not do his job to prepare you - I paid out 1800 dollars plus all my filing fees to make sure no mistakes were made and my lawyer did not do his job - right now I am paying for the fact that we listened to him in this matter - currently he is not my attorney and we are trying to fix this with other avenues at this point. the worst thing we did was to trust a lawyer to know the process, I figured over 17 years was a good place to start, but I was wrong. Why do we have lawyers who specialize in fields when they do not do the job correctly. You trust these people to prep you and to not miss anything - never again.

[aicha 0]

peezy post

Do you know nothing about the culture from which your husband comes? Your mother's situation is irrelevant, that is in the US (and still not common). IT ISN'T COMMON FOR MENA MEN TO MARRY SIGNIFICANTLY OLDER WIVES therefore it's a red flag to the consulate that is very familiar with local customs.

Based on her posts and the petition she has going, age difference was the least of the COs concerns.

Actually, I do know about my husband's country and his cultures - and to clarify - there are many women here that are the older one in the marriage, is it an age old custom - No, but it is happening more and more these days. It is done here, just like in the USA. I only mentioned my mom because they have a great marriage - not that it has anything to do with my case in particular. Based on my posts you really need to make sure you clarify who is saying what - I said what the CO said is not what was actually said in the interview.

[Fandango 1,439]

“Why do you speak to your wife in English and you are not talking to me in English?”

Reply, “Because my wife – she understands me and what I say to her. It is easy to write English, but it is harder to speak English.”

Next, the CO said,“You and your wife have talked for one year, why have you not learned English?”

Reply, “Sometimes we have the same conversations and again, it is harder to speak English than to write.”

we have learned to communicate in many forms, whether it is by word or by writing or by using a combination of three different languages. Gestures and behavior also play a role in our life together.

These two things you wrote in your letter imply that there's a spoken word communication issue. Sure we all communicate visually, but I wouldn't even begin to confuse the issue by saying as such if the verbal communication was sufficient. And if your husband learned English, then I don't understand why he didnt' answer differently to the question in red. The simple fact that the CO asked this question shows that your husband did not display a knowledge in the English language. And the bit in purple is strange...you understand his english, but no one else does?

Not trying to rag on you, just giving you outside perspective.

Edited April 23, 2007 by LisaD

[aicha 0]

“Why do you speak to your wife in English and you are not talking to me in English?”

Reply, “Because my wife – she understands me and what I say to her. It is easy to write English, but it is harder to speak English.”

Next, the CO said,“You and your wife have talked for one year, why have you not learned English?”

Reply, “Sometimes we have the same conversations and again, it is harder to speak English than to write.”

we have learned to communicate in many forms, whether it is by word or by writing or by using a combination of three different languages. Gestures and behavior also play a role in our life together.

These two things you wrote in your letter imply that there's a spoken word communication issue. Sure we all communicate visually, but I wouldn't even begin to confuse the issue by saying as such if the verbal communication was sufficient. And if your husband learned English, then I don't understand why he didnt' answer differently to the question in red. The simple fact that the CO asked this question shows that your husband did not display a knowledge in the English language. And the bit in purple is strange...you understand his english, but no one else does?

Not trying to rag on you, just giving you outside perspective.

That is fine - I do not think you are ragging on me - I am merely trying to make a few points that is all. She asked him the questions in red because he wanted to speak in Atabic to not make any mistakes. - Understandable for a very important time in your life to not want to screw it up - he was also told to give only basic answers by our lawyer, which I am regretting listening to this "so-called lawyer" - he hurt us more than he ever could have helped us!

I do not think it is strange - all people in marraiges and relationships understand there counterpart better then anyone else does. My husband and I speak together perfectly, but I also know not to use extremely hard words in some instances - I use common words - my husband is still learning and will continue to learn until he is fluent like an american speaking english, but until then I will continue to teach him the harder words, but communicate just fine with him in simpler forms of english. I really do not think that is strange at all - it is like taking a child and teaching them over the years how to speak and communicate in various forms. My husband is in that same learning process - does it mean we can not communicate - No - it means I understand my husband because we are the ones that talk on a daily basis and in forms of english that are not difficult. I talk to my husband the way that is needed and he wanted to speak arabic in his interview to do it right - I do not feel there is anything wrong with that. She could have asked him why I understand him - but she did not - she could have asked him a lot of things - but she did not - she gave my husband five minutes and the second he chose to speak in arabic she made choices. I will still stand by the point that assumptions were made on her part and she took things said and turned them around - never will I back down from that. She also asked about our papers and were disgusted at how the lawyer helped us - she could have maybe thought that he caused a few issues at our expense too, but she did not. She made statements that came from something else and not what was said - she could have done many thngs different - she could have looked at my husband and said - "you know, I think your lawyer did not do you justice and therefore explained what she needed from my husband - really think about it - many things could have been done to make sure she was not making a mistake, many things could have been said taht were not - she could have said - "okay - I will speak in easy words, but I want you to talkl to me in english, like you would your wife."

My main basic point is that the way things are done is not right for anyone - yes they need to make sure that things are true, but if they never give the chance to let a person show that, then what good are they and what they do - they create very long extened waits for people, when all they would have to do is change the things they do a little according to each applicant - to me - that is what makes a good interviewer. These CO's should have to undergo very specific training and I think a lot of that training should be in psychology so they can learn to understand people's minds better and forms of speech.

I think going back there are some things I would not have put in that letter, but at that time I will still trusting a lawyer I thought knew what he was doing - again I was wrong in that trust of this person for our life.

Never will I think it is strange that I understand my husband better than anyone else. My children also understand him - our friends that speak english understand him - this is not a strange statement.

[aicha 0]

go be happy aicha and fight hard for your love.I wish you the best....

Thank you for all of your support - I do understand everything you were saying in your arguments. There are a lot of things I would not have known or undrstood or seen about Morocco if I would not have been living here. I see the things in the news and other types of reports, but to really see and understand things in a country, you need to be there.

As far as the gender bias issues - these are the same as race issues - they have been going on for a very long time and it is up to society to change these things, as long as one of us keeps speaking our mind on these issues, then we open the door to more speaking up as well.

My case has a lot of things going on and now that I have gotten rid of my lawyer - maybe I can do things right.

[peezey 0]

I will not argue your points. In conventional wisdom, yes. I just think that what is happening to these women is very unfair. That is my opnion and I stand behind it. Secondly, my experience is not limited, I have been to Algeria multiple times and lived among them here and abroad. Each person is very different and I have seen true love between people of differing ages. Each person is different. And rai was never illegal in ORAN.. They may have had problems in the past but ORAN is a very open minded place..

You are correct in many of your statements and assumptions. I just do not think its fair to lump Algerians, Moroccans ,Berbers and middle easterners all in one pile.I say live and let live and age is no guarantee of a real relationship.....all you have to do is track relationships past the citizenship stage and then you will see perhaps what I am talking about.. age isnt the only issue in the dismantling of these relationships. Religion can play a huge factor, family disapproval etc

If you don't know that Rai & Rai singers were illegal in Algeria not that long ago,, you don't know squat.

I know very well amazigh, maghrebi, arabs can be different, but it's not the norm, and for you to think a consulate should make decisions based off non-traditional relationships without question, you are naive.

I said in ORAN not ALGERIA. RAI is the music played in all weddings and was born out wedding music judeo arabic wedding music. For a few years in the 1990s, rai was not performed live but it still was played. Being that I am personal friends with about 5 very famous rai singers and I write about rai for the media, I guess I don't know anything. I am absolutely sure you are not married to an Algerian.. and the reason I know this is there were 100,000 killed in algeria during the 1990's but Oran was largely spared this. Cheb Hasni and Cheb Aziz were killed but many more kept a low profile during the hardest years but were still very beloved. this has nothing to do with the topic and I am just going to tell you I am naive, stupid, dont know anything about North Africa and that you are correct.I have actually been in ORAN.. I doubt you have as many westerners including Moroccans have not been there. It is the birthplace of RAI and even in the darkest hours of the turmoil of Algeria, ORAN remained a joyous place.

Don't teach me about ALGERIA or RAI or the North African Area. And dont tell me what is happening to these women is warranted or fair by culture or any other standard. People have a right to love who they want to love. And if you are not walking in their shoes, which you are not being that you are in the naturalization process, its not your right to judge or play jury. Just let them be and let them talk about their feelings. I guess I don't know squat. you know what the media tells you. Islamists murdered and slaughtered rai singers but they did not squelch it. It may have been illegal to play on the radio for a while, but it always danced in the hearts of Oranis and was played in the cars and in private parties.

I dont know anything about culture second hand. I have made my own conclusions based on what I have seen and known and time time I spent in North Africa and with Algerians world wide over the last 6 years.

You turned my defense of this woman into an attack on me. Where you get off telling me I dont know about Algerian music or history is beyond me.

by the way its CHEBS not chebbis

Algeria sounds so romantic. Should we have a transliteration lesson?

You insist this is gender bias. It is not. You don't know anything about my process, but I can tell you I certainly didn't think I was owed any kind of visa for my husband the way you seem to.

ITS ROMANTIC AS HECK AND HAS THE BEST MUSIC... ORAN IS THE PLACE WHERE ALL RAI WAS BORN

Moroccans adore RAI RAI RAI RAI

and its from ALGERIA ALGERIA ALGERIA ( except for OUJDA RAI which is pretty awesome

twahask tek bezef al aljazair

TRANSLITERATION

hhahhahahhahahahha

hahhahhahahahaha

or mdrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr which is dying of laughing in darja....gees

"ek" isn't it's own word and you doubled the definite article. Lady, your DARIJA is garbage. Maybe tamazight is easier for you?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I will not argue your points. In conventional wisdom, yes. I just think that what is happening to these women is very unfair. That is my opnion and I stand behind it. Secondly, my experience is not limited, I have been to Algeria multiple times and lived among them here and abroad. Each person is very different and I have seen true love between people of differing ages. Each person is different. And rai was never illegal in ORAN.. They may have had problems in the past but ORAN is a very open minded place..

You are correct in many of your statements and assumptions. I just do not think its fair to lump Algerians, Moroccans ,Berbers and middle easterners all in one pile.I say live and let live and age is no guarantee of a real relationship.....all you have to do is track relationships past the citizenship stage and then you will see perhaps what I am talking about.. age isnt the only issue in the dismantling of these relationships. Religion can play a huge factor, family disapproval etc

If you don't know that Rai & Rai singers were illegal in Algeria not that long ago,, you don't know squat.

I know very well amazigh, maghrebi, arabs can be different, but it's not the norm, and for you to think a consulate should make decisions based off non-traditional relationships without question, you are naive.

I said in ORAN not ALGERIA. RAI is the music played in all weddings and was born out wedding music judeo arabic wedding music. For a few years in the 1990s, rai was not performed live but it still was played. Being that I am personal friends with about 5 very famous rai singers and I write about rai for the media, I guess I don't know anything. I am absolutely sure you are not married to an Algerian.. and the reason I know this is there were 100,000 killed in algeria during the 1990's but Oran was largely spared this. Cheb Hasni and Cheb Aziz were killed but many more kept a low profile during the hardest years but were still very beloved. this has nothing to do with the topic and I am just going to tell you I am naive, stupid, dont know anything about North Africa and that you are correct.I have actually been in ORAN.. I doubt you have as many westerners including Moroccans have not been there. It is the birthplace of RAI and even in the darkest hours of the turmoil of Algeria, ORAN remained a joyous place.

Don't teach me about ALGERIA or RAI or the North African Area. And dont tell me what is happening to these women is warranted or fair by culture or any other standard. People have a right to love who they want to love. And if you are not walking in their shoes, which you are not being that you are in the naturalization process, its not your right to judge or play jury. Just let them be and let them talk about their feelings. I guess I don't know squat. you know what the media tells you. Islamists murdered and slaughtered rai singers but they did not squelch it. It may have been illegal to play on the radio for a while, but it always danced in the hearts of Oranis and was played in the cars and in private parties.

I dont know anything about culture second hand. I have made my own conclusions based on what I have seen and known and time time I spent in North Africa and with Algerians world wide over the last 6 years.

You turned my defense of this woman into an attack on me. Where you get off telling me I dont know about Algerian music or history is beyond me.

by the way its CHEBS not chebbis

Algeria sounds so romantic. Should we have a transliteration lesson?

You insist this is gender bias. It is not. You don't know anything about my process, but I can tell you I certainly didn't think I was owed any kind of visa for my husband the way you seem to.

ITS ROMANTIC AS HECK AND HAS THE BEST MUSIC... ORAN IS THE PLACE WHERE ALL RAI WAS BORN

Moroccans adore RAI RAI RAI RAI

and its from ALGERIA ALGERIA ALGERIA ( except for OUJDA RAI which is pretty awesome

twahask tek bezef al aljazair

TRANSLITERATION

hhahhahahhahahahha

hahhahhahahahaha

or mdrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr which is dying of laughing in darja....gees

"ek" isn't it's own word and you doubled the definite article. Lady, your DARIJA is garbage. Maybe tamazight is easier for you?

ek is in ALGERIAN DARJA and its of turkish decent

For example

WASH BIK

WASH RAK

Do you even know ALGERIAN darja? Do you know the difference between ORANI darja and ALGEROISE?

They are not the same and even the words are not similar...

Moroccans cannot even understand many Algerians when they speak because of city specific words that they use..

In ORAN

RAYA SAHBI,,, KIRAK

In ALGIERS

WASH BIK, WASH RAK ya khou which means brother or khouya.

I know you don't know what the hell you are talking about and frankly I do not care. I do not claim to know anything about Moroccan dialect but I do know RAI and I do know ALGERIA and I love it to death and all your bashing and snottiness in the world does not erase that fact. Take a pill and stick to stuff about Morocco . You are clueless about ALGERIA. You may hound and attack people all over the boards with your know it all ways but it doesnt fly with me. Get a life.

[peezey 0]

ek is in ALGERIAN DARJA and its of turkish decent

For example

WASH BIK

WASH RAK

Do you even know ALGERIAN darja? Do you know the difference between ORANI darja and ALGEROISE?

They are not the same and even the words are not similar...

Moroccans cannot even understand many Algerians when they speak because of city specific words that they use..

In ORAN

RAYA SAHBI,,, KIRAK

In ALGIERS

WASH BIK, WASH RAK ya khou which means brother or khouya.

I know you don't know what the hell you are talking about and frankly I do not care. I do not claim to know anything about Moroccan dialect but I do know RAI and I do know ALGERIA and I love it to death and all your bashing and snottiness in the world does not erase that fact. Take a pill and stick to stuff about Morocco . You are clueless about ALGERIA. You may hound and attack people all over the boards with your know it all ways but it doesnt fly with me. Get a life.

You don't know what you are talking about, ek is to you/you and it has nothing to do with oran or algeria, it's not different in morocco and algeria.

Use all caps all you want, you still can't speak arabic, algerian or otherwise. Someone who has to perpetually repeat they've been to a city twice in order to gain credibility is really sad.

[meauxna 15]

It looks like it is time to take it to private messages, to me.

PS: and both of you can benefit from cutting the non-relevant parts of the quoted text from your replies.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have no idea what you are trying to prove but here is my take on things

We are here to get support and help with immigration problems and give support to others ( at least I am here for that)

I don't think you have any problems with immigration but perhaps you just like to be involved with things perhaps you have been through the process yourself. What I find a little perplexing is that you do not seem to be a positive person and seem to be attacking people on different boards. Thats fine. What ever your problem is with people or how you deal with them, I have a different manner. I think unless you have something positive and supportive to say, being quiet is a virtue. I don't think your comments are caring or uplifting and even though it seems fun for you to bash and hurt people, it doesn't affect me. I love NORTH AFRICA.. Algeria and Morocco and find the people amazing. I am also supportive of people loving and living as they choose and negativity comes from unhappiness. You must be a very very unhappy person... and I do not know for what reason.. but you are.

As far as understanding DARJA or knowing darja or dialects, I spend almost every day talking to my Algerian friends and adore and love them and they have been a huge part of my life for the last 6 years. I have friends from all over ALGERIA...from the west to the east and I think you should listen to some different singers from Algeria to truly understand the huge linguistic difference between the areas. You fancy yourself as an expert on North Africa and you yourself do not even know that the tek ending actually orignated with the turkish occupation in Algiers.. and the linguistic difference is evidenced in the children of KOURGOULIS. ALGEROISE even has certain expressions that people in ORAN do not even know or recognise and expressions that Moroccans do not know

Algerian darja is very very very different from Moroccan because of the turkish influence and the other influences in Algeria.. Algeria was a colony of France not a protectorate and has had many outside influences including entire cities of Ireland deposited smack dab in the middle of Algiers.

To you I say

TAB TAB

Ask a moroccan what that means. They will not know.. But an ALGEROISE will.

tab tab peezy

tab tab

tab tab

As far as credibility, I am not here to hold myself as an expert on anything. I am here to get support and care for my own situation and to give it to others. I need support.. not some know it all who isn't even going through the same set of problems that I am experiencing. I am anxious and stressed and going through this along with other filers.I find you very condescending.

tab tab tab tab.....

tab tab

tab tab.peezy

[Fandango 1,439]

Was that 'tab tab' you say?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Was that 'tab tab' you say?

tab tab...but not to you

heheheh

and its not dirty..

[tmma 467]

....................................

To you I say

TAB TAB

Ask a moroccan what that means. They will not know.. But an ALGEROISE will.

tab tab peezy

tab tab

tab tab

....................

tab tab tab tab.....

tab tab

tab tab.peezy

You sound like a defective keyboard

[mybackpages 0]

We are here to get support and help with immigration problems and give support to others ( at least I am here for that)

There are many faces of visa journey. Perhaps after you have been here a while you will get to know the people who post and what's the real deal here.