Issues and Problems

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

It may be the timing. It may be who interviewed her to as apposed to you or the mood that they were in. I have been reading some really unusual stuff.

I do take serious issue with the gender bias issue. I really think the cards are stacked against women. What if women opened up one of these marriage agencies with moroccan men. The whole place would be in an uproar. but because these cheese cake marriage sites with the lawyer on staff have popped up.. look for them

mail order brides. , russian ladies etcc

What would happen if women got together and did a moroccan marriage agency... Good word.. everyone would freak..But men can do as they please and marry women 40 years younger and get their papers 1 2 3.. Not fair. I am sorry .. not fair

[meauxna 15]

My honest answer - yes, I think the Morocco CO in particular tries to find any red flag they can to tell people no. We have an age difference of 13 1/2 years. So I think they jumped on it. It did not matter that out of our almost 15 months relationship, that we have been living together for half of that, as a matter of fact - they would not even allow him to show any of our proof - nothing! To me there is something wrong in that.

They send the approvals fro mthe states - the CO is only supposed to go against the approval if they have concrete evidence that the relationship is a fraud - they are not even supposed to return the cases to he states because of the backlogs they are creating UNLESS they have CONCRETE EVIDENCE.

Right, so how much of that was evidenced in your petition? Isn't this the theory behind sending sufficient evidence *with the petition*, so that the Consulate may NOT use that as a reason to return AND so that your case evidence *does* get a chance to be seen?

Have you read the essay by Marc Ellis, who posts here as EllisIsland? It might be worth searching out.

[mybackpages 0]

I do take serious issue with the gender bias issue. I really think the cards are stacked against women.

Unfortunately there are thousands of years of history to support a gender bias playing a role.

[meauxna 15]

I think you should stress in your appeals GENDER BIAS. I think from what I am reading is that you have a clear case of GENDER BIAS.

From what i am seeing, there needs to be a tally of all denied visas and how many of them were women petitioning men. I think its clearly gender bias and if thebooks were opened, it will show that they are denying women on a much higer level. What drives me the craziest is the marriage brokers funneling women in and out of south america, the dominican republic and russia and there is no way most of these women speak english or are getting the drilling that you are getting. I really feel sorry for you and all of these women struggling against the obvious gender bias that is being dished out. If you are white, female and older than the beneficiary, then you can expect for people not to believe you love or are in love and then you have truckloads of mail order brides getting in here that I am SURE do not know half the things you know about your spouse... AND YOU ARE LIVING THERE FOR GODS SAKE. ThIS IS NUTS

But if the marriage is against local custom, how can you play the gender bias card?

[meauxna 15]

I am breaking my case up one by one - gender bias is another possibility - whenever there is an older woman and younger man, people look at it strange, but if it is the other way - it is normal. My mother is 15 years older than her husband and they have been together for over 20 years! And you are very correct on the mail order bride thing - it is allowed all the time and most of these women are paid for - I do not understand any of this double standard garbage. I am sorry, but I really have to keep coming back to remind them consistantly that I am living here - Dear God, how much more proof does someone need - but then again, they would not allow any evidence to be shown.

Yes, it's normal in US society, but what about your husband's country? Is it normal there for a woman to be 15-20 years older than her spouse?

Are you sure you want to stand on the statement that women are paid for and imported to the US, a marriage only for the immigration benefit?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I think you should stress in your appeals GENDER BIAS. I think from what I am reading is that you have a clear case of GENDER BIAS.

From what i am seeing, there needs to be a tally of all denied visas and how many of them were women petitioning men. I think its clearly gender bias and if thebooks were opened, it will show that they are denying women on a much higer level. What drives me the craziest is the marriage brokers funneling women in and out of south america, the dominican republic and russia and there is no way most of these women speak english or are getting the drilling that you are getting. I really feel sorry for you and all of these women struggling against the obvious gender bias that is being dished out. If you are white, female and older than the beneficiary, then you can expect for people not to believe you love or are in love and then you have truckloads of mail order brides getting in here that I am SURE do not know half the things you know about your spouse... AND YOU ARE LIVING THERE FOR GODS SAKE. ThIS IS NUTS

But if the marriage is against local custom, how can you play the gender bias card?

who dictates what local custom is? Is it local custom in the philipines to marry someone 58 when you are 28? Its happening and the women are getting papers. Russian marriage agencies? Happening..huge age disparity and these girls know very little about the men they are meeting...

And its only a card you are playing if you are the one with your life getting destroyed by other peoples preconceived ideas about who is allowed to love and not. And by the way, I am not talking about my case. I havent even gotten an AO2. I am talking about basic fundamental gender bias that is being perpetuated against women in the immigrations system. Especially when you have a couple LIVING TOGETHER and they are telling her its not a real marriage and then these marriage brokers have russian babe parties and fly truckloads of men over there and these girls are getting their visas while you have women MARRIED to men and some of them living with them that cannot get papers..

IF THEY SET UP A MARRIAGE AGENCY FOR WOMEN TO FIND MEN LIKE THESE MEN GET>>> BOY OH BOY\\

think i am off

google russian brides, columbian women,etc

if thats fair.. that these guys can " pick a chick", work the system and get a lawyer all on one site and then get them here 1 2 3. something is very very very wrong

[aicha 0]

Okay - enough said - I tried and my point was still not understood. And yes - I was at the interview and seh is correct - the CO here does not allow the USC into the interview - they do not even allow you to wait by security.

I want to know one thing. Do you think the cards were stacked against you before he even got in there? If thats the case, why do they even send people approvals if evidence does not matter?

Approvals from USCIS have little or no bearing on consulate appovals. Two different departments. Two different set of guidelines. USCIS will approve petitions who meet their standards. For example the K-1 only requires you are a US citizen and have met your fiance within the last 2 years.

I am in the school of thought that Casablanca does prejudge cases based ont he evidence submitted with the original petition. I thnk the key characteristics Casa looks for are length of time together, explaination of meeting and timing of the engagement. A large age difference or language incompadibility only add to the suspicion.

Many of those that say the consulate did not look at the evidence brought by their SO, seem to have a great deal of red flags according to the consulate. It appears that what happens in the brief interview is enough to confirm their suspicion. So much so that submitting piles of emails and phone records is just not enough in the mind of the consulate to be enough to overcome the burden of suspicion.

Some couples are asked to show evidence. My fiance was asked to bring back more evidence. And many couples who do appear to have similar red flags (age difference, meeting ont he internet etc) appear to have no problems getting the visa. IMO part of the problem is not understanding the process. If we all went into the process knowing the burden of proof was on us to show a legitimate relationship and that the burder was a heavy one, we would all be better prepared and many of the good legitimate couples would not get snared in the fraud net.

The sad part about your last paragraph - yes, the burden of proof is on us, but you have to be allowed to show that proof during your interview - how can you prove something if it is not allowed? I have watched people go through there with nothing and have a lot of red flags and no english and hey have walked out of there with VISA's - the system is flawed - they are playing guessing games - I have watched people go in there and have no red flags and not get their VISA. The Morocco CO is just flipping a coin most of the time.

I agree there needs to be some change to the process and I am so sorry you are caught in this situation. I think though that the ways the policy is written that Casa has decided the way they will carry out that policy. The rules say if the Consulate does not think the submission of more evidence will be enoug to overcome the burden of proof, it is not necessary to ask for it. Consulates have a great deal of autonomy in the way they carry out policy. Casa for example is one of the few consulates that does not require an affidavit of support for the K-1 visa.

What happens at Casa is not much different than what happens at other high fraud consulates. The entire system has flaws not just Casa.

You are right - sorry I did not specify all - I did mean the entire system is flawed - there are problems all across the board with this system - for all people.

I am curious why you think the age difference was the key factor for you. We have the same age difference and it was no problem (in the end anyway- who knows what they thought when they saw our petition). Based on the information you have posted here before, it seems there was more to it than just that. I am not saying it isn't a factor, but I think we have to look at the whole picture and not just one characteristic.

I do not necessarily think that was the key factor - I think that was the only red flag showing before interview. The interview itself was not good from the beginning - maybe my husband was not speaking enough for them, but he was told not to by our stupid lawyer - anyways - I am only tryng to pull out red flags. My hsuband would try to say things to this woman in the interview and she would stop him continuouslly. I think there were a lot of problems here and we have to find all of the barriers in this and why my husband was treated poorly from the beginning. There are many issues and right now I am just doing the breakdown analysis for the Senator. I know things are coming here in bits and pieces, but it is hard for me to just take all of this from start to finish and lay it out for everyone - your questions are great and I am trying to answer as they come - I hope I am doing that.

I think it may appear to be a coin toss, but I think we are looking at from the outside and there are key pieces ot the puzzle we are missing. At best any guessing on what is happening is based on circumstancial evidence.

I do hope this is resolved for you soon.

Dear God in heaven - so do we!

[brnidokiegurl 0]

I do take serious issue with the gender bias issue. I really think the cards are stacked against women.

Unfortunately there are thousands of years of history to support a gender bias playing a role.

there are hundreds years of history to show race discriminatin also that doesnt make it right, in our case we know our ages, they knew from day one. If we were in the U>S> would the government step in to be sure we werent makeing a mistake? That should be the couples choice not the governments.

[peezey 0]

I didn't read this entire thread but I did read about certain details of the marriage.

Forgive me but I don't think I could marry someone that I had to use hand gestures with and have to have a friend to translate. I can see the CO's concern. Sorry.

What if your SO (god forbid) is deaf?

Then wouldn't you still have to have a common language? ASL is a language, and isn't random and if both people know it, they don't need a friend to translate.

You know what they say, love is the universal language...

You know who says this? People who can't communicate about children, bills, goals through a common language.

[mybackpages 0]

I do take serious issue with the gender bias issue. I really think the cards are stacked against women.

Unfortunately there are thousands of years of history to support a gender bias playing a role.

there are hundreds years of history to show race discriminatin also that doesnt make it right, in our case we know our ages, they knew from day one. If we were in the U>S> would the government step in to be sure we werent makeing a mistake? That should be the couples choice not the governments.

I am not saying we must accept gender bias, but if we move through any system and not expect to see it embedded in how policies are carriedout, we are only hurting ourselves. Casa is not saying that couples with an age difference can not be together for many couples with age differences are approved. Casa is saying, IMO, that that characteristic of the relationship can be one factor in raising suspicion on a case.

[peezey 0]

Okay - enough said - I tried and my point was still not understood. And yes - I was at the interview and seh is correct - the CO here does not allow the USC into the interview - they do not even allow you to wait by security.

I want to know one thing. Do you think the cards were stacked against you before he even got in there? If thats the case, why do they even send people approvals if evidence does not matter?

her husband said he found her by searching the yahoo directory looking for American women. And they commnicate with charades and a friend translating. No one outside the two of them stacked anything up against them.

[peezey 0]

They send the approvals fro mthe states - the CO is only supposed to go against the approval if they have concrete evidence that the relationship is a fraud - they are not even supposed to return the cases to he states because of the backlogs they are creating UNLESS they have CONCRETE EVIDENCE. With Morocco - you have a 50/50 shot, kind of like flipping a coin and calling heads or tails.

Not true. Approvals outweigh denials far more than 50%.

And, whether your husband meant to or not, his answers made him look very suspect.

[peezey 0]

Okay - enough said - I tried and my point was still not understood. And yes - I was at the interview and seh is correct - the CO here does not allow the USC into the interview - they do not even allow you to wait by security.

I want to know one thing. Do you think the cards were stacked against you before he even got in there? If thats the case, why do they even send people approvals if evidence does not matter?

My honest answer - yes, I think the Morocco CO in particular tries to find any red flag they can to tell people no. We have an age difference of 13 1/2 years. So I think they jumped on it. It did not matter that out of our almost 15 months relationship, that we have been living together for half of that, as a

I think you should stress in your appeals GENDER BIAS. I think from what I am reading is that you have a clear case of GENDER BIAS.

From what i am seeing, there needs to be a tally of all denied visas and how many of them were women petitioning men. I think its clearly gender bias and if thebooks were opened, it will show that they are denying women on a much higer level. What drives me the craziest is the marriage brokers funneling women in and out of south america, the dominican republic and russia and there is no way most of these women speak english or are getting the drilling that you are getting. I really feel sorry for you and all of these women struggling against the obvious gender bias that is being dished out. If you are white, female and older than the beneficiary, then you can expect for people not to believe you love or are in love and then you have truckloads of mail order brides getting in here that I am SURE do not know half the things you know about your spouse... AND YOU ARE LIVING THERE FOR GODS SAKE. ThIS IS NUTS

What none of you seem to understand is, YOU ARE NOT THE PETITIONER. You are not requesting a visa, the man is. This is because of evidence of MENA (Morocco in particular) being high fraud. You are not being oppressed here. These men are being denied visas, not you women.

[mybackpages 0]

What none of you seem to understand is, YOU ARE NOT THE PETITIONER. You are not requesting a visa, the man is. This is because of evidence of MENA (Morocco in particular) being high fraud. You are not being oppressed here. These men are being denied visas, not you women.

Can we say this just a little louder please. This is correct. The burden of proof is on the fiance/husband to prove he is qualified to receive the visa. We would see less denials if more people understand the process better.

[peezey 0]

Okay - enough said - I tried and my point was still not understood. And yes - I was at the interview and seh is correct - the CO here does not allow the USC into the interview - they do not even allow you to wait by security.

I want to know one thing. Do you think the cards were stacked against you before he even got in there? If thats the case, why do they even send people approvals if evidence does not matter?

My honest answer - yes, I think the Morocco CO in particular tries to find any red flag they can to tell people no. We have an age difference of 13 1/2 years. So I think they jumped on it. It did not matter that out of our almost 15 months relationship, that we have been living together for half of that, as a

I think you should stress in your appeals GENDER BIAS. I think from what I am reading is that you have a clear case of GENDER BIAS.

From what i am seeing, there needs to be a tally of all denied visas and how many of them were women petitioning men. I think its clearly gender bias and if thebooks were opened, it will show that they are denying women on a much higer level. What drives me the craziest is the marriage brokers funneling women in and out of south america, the dominican republic and russia and there is no way most of these women speak english or are getting the drilling that you are getting. I really feel sorry for you and all of these women struggling against the obvious gender bias that is being dished out. If you are white, female and older than the beneficiary, then you can expect for people not to believe you love or are in love and then you have truckloads of mail order brides getting in here that I am SURE do not know half the things you know about your spouse... AND YOU ARE LIVING THERE FOR GODS SAKE. ThIS IS NUTS

I am breaking my case up one by one - gender bias is another possibility - whenever there is an older woman and younger man, people look at it strange, but if it is the other way - it is normal. My mother is 15 years older than her husband and they have been together for over 20 years! And you are very correct on the mail order bride thing - it is allowed all the time and most of these women are paid for - I do not understand any of this double standard garbage. I am sorry, but I really have to keep coming back to remind them consistantly that I am living here - Dear God, how much more proof does someone need - but then again, they would not allow any evidence to be shown.

Do you know nothing about the culture from which your husband comes? Your mother's situation is irrelevant, that is in the US (and still not common). IT ISN'T COMMON FOR MENA MEN TO MARRY SIGNIFICANTLY OLDER WIVES therefore it's a red flag to the consulate that is very familiar with local customs.

Okay - enough said - I tried and my point was still not understood. And yes - I was at the interview and seh is correct - the CO here does not allow the USC into the interview - they do not even allow you to wait by security.

I want to know one thing. Do you think the cards were stacked against you before he even got in there? If thats the case, why do they even send people approvals if evidence does not matter?

Approvals from USCIS have little or no bearing on consulate appovals. Two different departments. Two different set of guidelines. USCIS will approve petitions who meet their standards. For example the K-1 only requires you are a US citizen and have met your fiance within the last 2 years.

I am in the school of thought that Casablanca does prejudge cases based ont he evidence submitted with the original petition. I thnk the key characteristics Casa looks for are length of time together, explaination of meeting and timing of the engagement. A large age difference or language incompadibility only add to the suspicion.

Many of those that say the consulate did not look at the evidence brought by their SO, seem to have a great deal of red flags according to the consulate. It appears that what happens in the brief interview is enough to confirm their suspicion. So much so that submitting piles of emails and phone records is just not enough in the mind of the consulate to be enough to overcome the burden of suspicion.

Some couples are asked to show evidence. My fiance was asked to bring back more evidence. And many couples who do appear to have similar red flags (age difference, meeting ont he internet etc) appear to have no problems getting the visa. IMO part of the problem is not understanding the process. If we all went into the process knowing the burden of proof was on us to show a legitimate relationship and that the burder was a heavy one, we would all be better prepared and many of the good legitimate couples would not get snared in the fraud net.

The sad part about your last paragraph - yes, the burden of proof is on us, but you have to be allowed to show that proof during your interview - how can you prove something if it is not allowed? I have watched people go through there with nothing and have a lot of red flags and no english and hey have walked out of there with VISA's - the system is flawed - they are playing guessing games - I have watched people go in there and have no red flags and not get their VISA. The Morocco CO is just flipping a coin most of the time.

I agree there needs to be some change to the process and I am so sorry you are caught in this situation. I think though that the ways the policy is written that Casa has decided the way they will carry out that policy. The rules say if the Consulate does not think the submission of more evidence will be enoug to overcome the burden of proof, it is not necessary to ask for it. Consulates have a great deal of autonomy in the way they carry out policy. Casa for example is one of the few consulates that does not require an affidavit of support for the K-1 visa.

What happens at Casa is not much different than what happens at other high fraud consulates. The entire system has flaws not just Casa.

I am curious why you think the age difference was the key factor for you. We have the same age difference and it was no problem (in the end anyway- who knows what they thought when they saw our petition). Based on the information you have posted here before, it seems there was more to it than just that. I am not saying it isn't a factor, but I think we have to look at the whole picture and not just one characteristic.

I think it may appear to be a coin toss, but I think we are looking at from the outside and there are key pieces ot the puzzle we are missing. At best any guessing on what is happening is based on circumstancial evidence.

I do hope this is resolved for you soon.

Based on her posts and the petition she has going, age difference was the least of the COs concerns.