uneasy, lonely, awkward figure," We’ve also learned that he has no desire or capacity to lead the world.

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 minute ago, ccneat said:

It hasn't failed...but corrections are needed. Besides when the bill is repealed and replaced by Trumpcare everyone will have much better healthcare at a fraction of the cost. 

[Dashinka 24,493]

1 hour ago, ccneat said:

It hasn't failed...but corrections are needed. Besides when the bill is repealed and replaced by Trumpcare everyone will have much better healthcare at a fraction of the cost. 

I expect the replacement to be single payer as Trump has been pretty much on board with that since even before running for President.  I suppose if this happens, all credit will go to the DNC and Obama for setting up the ACA to fail leaving no alternative but single payer.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

But I thought foreigners meddling in our politics was a bad thing. Its hard to keep up with the fluid rules of engagement 

[JimandChristy 1,689]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

I expect the replacement to be single payer as Trump has been pretty much on board with that since even before running for President.  I suppose if this happens, all credit will go to the DNC and Obama for setting up the ACA to fail leaving no alternative but single payer.

If that's the case then why didn't Trump as the leader of the Republican party ask Ryan and McConnell to start working on a single payer bill?

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

I expect the replacement to be single payer as Trump has been pretty much on board with that since even before running for President.  I suppose if this happens, all credit will go to the DNC and Obama for setting up the ACA to fail leaving no alternative but single payer.

Who knew.?..donald Trump..the vanguard of socialist reform! 

[jg121783 3,915]

3 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

The bill wasn't horrible, the AHCA is "horrible". The ACA was responsible for bring down the uninsured rate in this country to a level we've not seen in years. Is it ideal? No but like I said it is far superior than what any Republican has come up with.

It's also responsible for most people's premiums doubling or tripling and a nice little tax penalty if you can no longer afford your higher premiums. The insurance companies love it because they can charge whatever they want for their product because everyone is forced to buy it. Kind of like what happened when states started requiring everyone to have car insurance (at least in that situation you have the option of not driving). The democrats wrote (actually the insurance companies and other special interests did most of the writing) the bill and passed it. They get the blame when their bill fails. Not the republicans.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

50 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

If that's the case then why didn't Trump as the leader of the Republican party ask Ryan and McConnell to start working on a single payer bill?

The only single payer bill Republican leadership cares about is the one where people who cannot afford insurance give it up and every single dollar in savings pay the top 1 % in tax cuts

[jg121783 3,915]

I would add that I wouldn't measure the success of a health care bill by how many people are insured but rather the health of the people and the quality of care received. Do you have some graphs for those statistics?

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 minute ago, jg121783 said:

It's also responsible for most people's premiums doubling or tripling and a nice little tax penalty if you can no longer afford your higher premiums. The insurance companies love it because they can charge whatever they want for their product because everyone is forced to buy it. Kind of like what happened when states started requiring everyone to have car insurance (at least in that situation you have the option of not driving). The democrats wrote (actually the insurance companies and other special interests did most of the writing) the bill and passed it. They get the blame when their bill fails. Not the republicans.

It's also responsible for most people's premiums doubling or tripling and a nice little tax penalty if you can no longer afford your higher premiums.

Nope
The insurance companies love it because they can charge whatever they want for their product because everyone is forced to buy it.
Nope
Kind of like what happened when states started requiring everyone to have car insurance (at least in that situation you have the option of not driving).

 

The democrats wrote (actually the insurance companies and other special interests did most of the writing) the bill and passed it. They get the blame when their bill fails. Not the republicans.

Who gets the blame for broken pipes and unmowed  lawn after the house is sold?  the current owner.  Republican voices told us again and again..repeal and replace...time to put up or shut up.

 

[JimandChristy 1,689]

27 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

It's also responsible for most people's premiums doubling or tripling and a nice little tax penalty if you can no longer afford your higher premiums. The insurance companies love it because they can charge whatever they want for their product because everyone is forced to buy it. Kind of like what happened when states started requiring everyone to have car insurance (at least in that situation you have the option of not driving). The democrats wrote (actually the insurance companies and other special interests did most of the writing) the bill and passed it. They get the blame when their bill fails. Not the republicans.

It's a fallacy to say most people's premiums doubled or tripled. Yes it happened to some people but not to a majority. I think it is also safe to say it is the Republican party who for years has not been interested in trying to make health care more affordable and efficient. There were happy with the status quo before the ACA came along. The Democrats we're the only party who have shown any interest in reforming the health care system for decades.

Edited July 10, 2017 by JimandChristy

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

49 minutes ago, JimandChristy said:

It's a fallacy to say most people's premiums doubled or tripled. Yes it happened to some people but not to a majority. I think it is also safe to say it is the Republican party who for years has not been interested in trying to make health care more affordable and efficient. There were happy with the status quo before the ACA came along. The Democrats we're the only party who have shown any interest in reforming the health care system for decades.

And by fallacy you mean totally made up.

[Dashinka 24,493]

31 minutes ago, ccneat said:

And by fallacy you mean totally made up.

I'll bet those that had premiums increase might not agree with you.  Considering the average premium increase for 2016 was 22%, I think that means more than half of the people are seeing increases greater than 22% based on my knowledge of the definition of the word average.  Sure many of this people get subsidies, but I don't think the subsidies cover the entire cost, and there are about 15% of those in the ACA that do not get subsidies, so they get the entire increase if they are in a state with a large hike.

[jg121783 3,915]

6 hours ago, ccneat said:

It's also responsible for most people's premiums doubling or tripling and a nice little tax penalty if you can no longer afford your higher premiums.

Nope
The insurance companies love it because they can charge whatever they want for their product because everyone is forced to buy it.
Nope
Kind of like what happened when states started requiring everyone to have car insurance (at least in that situation you have the option of not driving).

 

The democrats wrote (actually the insurance companies and other special interests did most of the writing) the bill and passed it. They get the blame when their bill fails. Not the republicans.

Who gets the blame for broken pipes and unmowed  lawn after the house is sold?  the current owner.  Republican voices told us again and again..repeal and replace...time to put up or shut up.

 

This is not an accurate comparison. When someone buys a house they take ownership of it and responsibility for upkeep. How can you say republicans took "ownership" of Obamacare when they didn't vote for it, didn't endorse it and didn't agree to "maintain" it. The Obamacare situation is more like democrats building a rickety house then abandoning it and saying their neighbor (republicans) is responsible for its upkeep. By the way Obamacare took years to pass and it could take years to repeal and fix the damage done by it.

 

6 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

It's a fallacy to say most people's premiums doubled or tripled. Yes it happened to some people but not to a majority. I think it is also safe to say it is the Republican party who for years has not been interested in trying to make health care more affordable and efficient. There were happy with the status quo before the ACA came along. The Democrats we're the only party who have shown any interest in reforming the health care system for decades.

It is not a fallacy. The numbers show that statement to be completely true. Furthermore I have personally seen my premiums triple and the quality of the plan go down at the same time. I even had a couple years when I couldn't afford the premium and paying several thousand dollars in tax penalties was a better option for me. I have not talked to a single person who has not seen their premiums at least double along with higher deductibles and less coverage. As I have said before the amount of people who have health insurance is not an accurate measurement of the success or failure of health care legislation. Cost and quality of care are more important metrics that are ignored by both sides.

 

As an example my wife is pregnant and we paid $300 (out of our own pocket because we haven't met our deductable yet) to see a specialist for no more than 5 minutes and answer a few questions for him. That was after the discount the insurance company got us. One time I got something in my eye and they billed me $400 just to read an eye chart. Health care costs are out of control and it is that way because everyone is worried about how many people have insurance regardless of how expensive it is or how high the deductibles are and no one seems to care about doctors and hospitals price gouging everything you could imagine.

[yuna628 9,676]

8 hours ago, JimandChristy said:

It's a fallacy to say most people's premiums doubled or tripled. Yes it happened to some people but not to a majority. I think it is also safe to say it is the Republican party who for years has not been interested in trying to make health care more affordable and efficient. There were happy with the status quo before the ACA came along. The Democrats we're the only party who have shown any interest in reforming the health care system for decades.

Most people? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But a great deal of people? Absolutely. Come to some states on the east coast and we're all looking at the same hefty premium. Again BCBS is asking for a 52% premium increase as they continue to hold a virtual monopoly in several states - that is on top of a monthly bill that for most people totals in upwards of $700. A bill so expensive that it's entirely prohibitive in actually using it. I've dived deep into this subject ever since politicians and insurance companies got behind the desk to flesh it all out behind our backs - and there is one thing I've always said: the affordable in the affordable care act, is a misnomer. The affordability is only for the few, the lucky that are eligible, and certainly not the majority. However the aspects that have affected the majority are the things that everyone typically agrees on and likes - such as not being denied and extra coverage. These things are the real good things about the bill. I also can't really say that the Dems aren't the only persons interested in reforming healthcare - the bones of the ACA were a mishmash of the Clinton years, of which many republicans contributed ideas (when republicans actually did contribute ideas) to it. But gone are those days when people had spines... intentionally forgotten. I am thankful we only have a few more months to worry about insurance companies draining us dry, as we're moving on to really great workplace coverage. And it's stunning actually the comparison to the poor plan we're paying for now at a loss of so much money compared to the new excellent plan that will cost us very little.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

8 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I'll bet those that had premiums increase might not agree with you.  Considering the average premium increase for 2016 was 22%, I think that means more than half of the people are seeing increases greater than 22% based on my knowledge of the definition of the word average.  Sure many of this people get subsidies, but I don't think the subsidies cover the entire cost, and there are about 15% of those in the ACA that do not get subsidies, so they get the entire increase if they are in a state with a large hike.

So what was the average increase in all premiums since the ACA was put into place? And how does that compare to prior periods? Correlation is not causation...but we need to get the data first.