attorney- previous marriage void or not?

[asdx 0]

 

Hello...

 

I need an attorney I am just not sure what type.

 

My wife and I were married, and I thought all was OK with that.  Lately my reading is telling me otherwise.

My wife from the Philippines has a previous marriage.  However she was 17 when she entered into the marriage which means it was void or voidable 

She did have children, and she lived with her husband when she was over 18 in the Philippines.  In the US this COULD move the marriage into being valid.  In the Philippines it needs to be age 21.

 

Anyways my reading has me here.

So, if a marriage is void from the very beginning (void ab initio), there’s no need to file anything in court?

For purposes of remarriage, there must be a court order declaring the marriage as null and void. Entering into a subsequent marriage without such court declaration means that: (a) the subsequent marriage is void; and (b) the parties open themselves to a possible charge of bigamy.

 

This was not done, and the quote above is for Philippines law not US.

 

This could lead to problems for us both when we returned to the Philippines as bigamy is serious there Should this person want to cause trouble.

 

It could also lead to problems here although the worst I can imagine is her not getting processed, and/or deported as there was no intent.  She thought her marriage was void there, and nothing more needed to be done.  She had a clean cenomar obviously or she would not be here.  I have not submitted any paperwork to adjust status.  We are close to 2 years of marriage.

 

My first thought about this is that our marriage possibly is not valid. 

Basically I need an attorney to help me here to determine where we stand, and then I can move forward.  But again I am not sure what kind of attorney I need to look for.  I am thinking this would fly over the head of a local family/divorce attorney.  International law maybe?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Penguin_ie

[doggieandsam 765]

did your wife and former husband actually have a wedding ceremony (ie in church or before a judge) in the philippines? or did they just "live together" but did not legalize anything?

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

***** Moving from Effects of Major Changes to Philippines Regional forum as question is about the laws of that country ******

[Hank_ 9,174]

6 hours ago, asdx said:

 

Hello...

 

I need an attorney I am just not sure what type.

 

My wife and I were married, and I thought all was OK with that.  Lately my reading is telling me otherwise.

My wife from the Philippines has a previous marriage.  However she was 17 when she entered into the marriage which means it was void or voidable 

She did have children, and she lived with her husband when she was over 18 in the Philippines.  In the US this COULD move the marriage into being valid.  In the Philippines it needs to be age 21.

 

Anyways my reading has me here.

So, if a marriage is void from the very beginning (void ab initio), there’s no need to file anything in court?

For purposes of remarriage, there must be a court order declaring the marriage as null and void. Entering into a subsequent marriage without such court declaration means that: (a) the subsequent marriage is void; and (b) the parties open themselves to a possible charge of bigamy.

 

This was not done, and the quote above is for Philippines law not US.

 

This could lead to problems for us both when we returned to the Philippines as bigamy is serious there Should this person want to cause trouble.

 

It could also lead to problems here although the worst I can imagine is her not getting processed, and/or deported as there was no intent.  She thought her marriage was void there, and nothing more needed to be done.  She had a clean cenomar obviously or she would not be here.  I have not submitted any paperwork to adjust status.  We are close to 2 years of marriage.

 

My first thought about this is that our marriage possibly is not valid. 

Basically I need an attorney to help me here to determine where we stand, and then I can move forward.  But again I am not sure what kind of attorney I need to look for.  I am thinking this would fly over the head of a local family/divorce attorney.  International law maybe?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

What makes you think your wife was married before?  I ask because part of the requirement for being issued a K-1 visa is BEING FREE TO MARRY, and for evidence of that the embassy requires a CENOMAR from PSA.. which you wife must of produced or she would not be in the USA and married to you.

 

I guess I am confused some..

 

 

[Unlockable 7,314]

What makes you think that the marriage was void? Does she have court documents indicating it?

 

As @Hank_ mentioned she will need a CENOMAR which certifies that she is free to marry. The is PHL law and she will not be given a visa if she does not have one. You will need to find out her status as soon as possible as you may not be able to move forward with your case until this is resolved.

[asdx 0]

Hello....

 

Yes she was married before, but she was a minor 17 years old.  There was  no cenomar because there was no final processing of the marriage aka what is called third mark.  There was a ceremony, and witnesses.  

 

My reading on philippine law tells me the marriage was void unless they were living together as a married couple when she turned 21 if they were living together at that time the marriage becomes valid.  They separated I just don't know exactly when.

 

What are the grounds for annulment?

1. Lack of parental consent in certain cases. If a party is 18 years or over, but below 21, and the marriage was solemnized without the consent of the parents/guardian. However, the marriage is validated if, upon reaching 21, the spouses freely cohabited with the other and both lived together as husband and wife.

 

 

So, if a marriage is void from the very beginning (void ab initio), there’s no need to file anything in court?

For purposes of remarriage, there must be a court order declaring the marriage as null and void. Entering into a subsequent marriage without such court declaration means that: (a) the subsequent marriage is void; and (b) the parties open themselves to a possible charge of bigamy.

 

Also this.

 

Justice Sempio-Dy, in the “Handbook of on the Family Code of the Philippines” (p. 26, 1997 reprint), says: “The marriage certificate is not an essential or formal requisite of marriage without which the marriage will be void. An oral marriage is, therefore, valid, and failure of a party to sign the marriage certificate or the omission of the solemnizing officer to send a copy of the marriage certificate to the proper local civil registrar, does not invalidate the marriage. Also the mere fact that no record of marriage can be found, does not invalidate the marriage provided all the requisites for its validity are present.”

 

 

 

[drjlreedjr 0]

19 hours ago, asdx said:

 

Hello...

 

I need an attorney I am just not sure what type.

 

My wife and I were married, and I thought all was OK with that.  Lately my reading is telling me otherwise.

My wife from the Philippines has a previous marriage.  However she was 17 when she entered into the marriage which means it was void or voidable 

She did have children, and she lived with her husband when she was over 18 in the Philippines.  In the US this COULD move the marriage into being valid.  In the Philippines it needs to be age 21.

 

Anyways my reading has me here.

So, if a marriage is void from the very beginning (void ab initio), there’s no need to file anything in court?

For purposes of remarriage, there must be a court order declaring the marriage as null and void. Entering into a subsequent marriage without such court declaration means that: (a) the subsequent marriage is void; and (b) the parties open themselves to a possible charge of bigamy.

 

This was not done, and the quote above is for Philippines law not US.

 

This could lead to problems for us both when we returned to the Philippines as bigamy is serious there Should this person want to cause trouble.

 

It could also lead to problems here although the worst I can imagine is her not getting processed, and/or deported as there was no intent.  She thought her marriage was void there, and nothing more needed to be done.  She had a clean cenomar obviously or she would not be here.  I have not submitted any paperwork to adjust status.  We are close to 2 years of marriage.

 

My first thought about this is that our marriage possibly is not valid. 

Basically I need an attorney to help me here to determine where we stand, and then I can move forward.  But again I am not sure what kind of attorney I need to look for.  I am thinking this would fly over the head of a local family/divorce attorney.  International law maybe?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Who other than you and your wife have knowledge of the marriage, that is in this country, the U.S.?

I am meaning a governmental entity.

[Hank_ 9,174]

9 hours ago, asdx said:

Hello....

 

Yes she was married before, but she was a minor 17 years old.  There was  no cenomar because there was no final processing of the marriage aka what is called third mark.  There was a ceremony, and witnesses.  

 

My reading on philippine law tells me the marriage was void unless they were living together as a married couple when she turned 21 if they were living together at that time the marriage becomes valid.  They separated I just don't know exactly when.

 

What are the grounds for annulment?

1. Lack of parental consent in certain cases. If a party is 18 years or over, but below 21, and the marriage was solemnized without the consent of the parents/guardian. However, the marriage is validated if, upon reaching 21, the spouses freely cohabited with the other and both lived together as husband and wife.

 

 

So, if a marriage is void from the very beginning (void ab initio), there’s no need to file anything in court?

For purposes of remarriage, there must be a court order declaring the marriage as null and void. Entering into a subsequent marriage without such court declaration means that: (a) the subsequent marriage is void; and (b) the parties open themselves to a possible charge of bigamy.

 

Also this.

 

Justice Sempio-Dy, in the “Handbook of on the Family Code of the Philippines” (p. 26, 1997 reprint), says: “The marriage certificate is not an essential or formal requisite of marriage without which the marriage will be void. An oral marriage is, therefore, valid, and failure of a party to sign the marriage certificate or the omission of the solemnizing officer to send a copy of the marriage certificate to the proper local civil registrar, does not invalidate the marriage. Also the mere fact that no record of marriage can be found, does not invalidate the marriage provided all the requisites for its validity are present.”

 

 

 

 

Not sure what you are looking here on this forum.   An attorney in the Philippines?   There seems to be one on every street...

 

 

.

[asdx 0]

No government knows about the previous marriage.

 

I was hoping someone could give me a contact or two.  I tried for a while today, and got one email sent through.  I have been searching makati as it is the only city I know of where there is a good chance at the attorney having technology.  I remember there are many attorneys there too.  I spent a year over there.  Most of the ones I seen did not have websites I mean functional ones with working links and emails.

 

I found two of them today.  I called one and they have an office in California and manila, but 300$ for an initial consult.  I found one in manila who has a working email and sent them information.  I just need to find out if an annulment can be done and if they can help me with it long distance.

 

I did speak to two today immigration attorneys in the US.  Both told me what I was wondering.  I need to speak to a philippine attorney about an annulment, only then could they help me.  One told me off the record not legal advice no attorney client etc....  I could file for her green card she may not get an interview.  If she did get one they may not ask about a previous marriage.  If they did ask then I would want proof of the annulment in hand.

 

 

[Hank_ 9,174]

3 hours ago, asdx said:

No government knows about the previous marriage.

 

I was hoping someone could give me a contact or two.  I tried for a while today, and got one email sent through.  I have been searching makati as it is the only city I know of where there is a good chance at the attorney having technology.  I remember there are many attorneys there too.  I spent a year over there.  Most of the ones I seen did not have websites I mean functional ones with working links and emails.

 

I found two of them today.  I called one and they have an office in California and manila, but 300$ for an initial consult.  I found one in manila who has a working email and sent them information.  I just need to find out if an annulment can be done and if they can help me with it long distance.

 

I did speak to two today immigration attorneys in the US.  Both told me what I was wondering.  I need to speak to a philippine attorney about an annulment, only then could they help me.  One told me off the record not legal advice no attorney client etc....  I could file for her green card she may not get an interview.  If she did get one they may not ask about a previous marriage.  If they did ask then I would want proof of the annulment in hand.

 

 

This is just my opinion.. but what I see here doesn't make sense.

 

It is like you have this crystal clear pool of water and you want to take a big stick jam it down to the bottom and stir up as much mud as you can.

 

Your wife is in the USA, she could not have gotten her visa if she was married to another man, unless there was decent in the mix.

 

She has a CENOMAR = Certificate of No Marriage from the PSA in the Philippines.  It is a valid document, the embassy is very wise on fraudulent documents.

 

Yet you have this obsession.     Do you possess a marriage certificate between your wife and this other man?  You don't really mention.

 

Can she get an annulment?   The first question that comes to mind is .. How?  She isn't shown to be married in the Philippines... ????

 

AOS.. to get the conditional green card; the process is about two things for the most part; having a valid marriage and you being financially able meet the support requirements... DONE.   Will you be interviewed?  Possible.  My wife and I were ... they asked my wife questions about our home and our car, they asked me about her family  ...     Done.        2 years later you will need to provide documents showing you have been living as husband and wife... DONE.

 

You are trying to make mud for some unknown reason ...  just my opinion.   What is your down card that you are not showing?

[Greenbaum 12,259]

  Waiting for the punch line on this one. Hank has it again something doesn't smell right here.

 

Here is a good family and immigration lawyer that others spoke of; Atty. Dimpna (Dimples) D. Bermejo-Dulay and she is located in Davao City. I know NOTHING about her but that she is good.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

5 hours ago, Hank_ said:

This is just my opinion.. but what I see here doesn't make sense.

It is like you have this crystal clear pool of water and you want to take a big stick jam it down to the bottom and stir up as much mud as you can.

Your wife is in the USA, she could not have gotten her visa if she was married to another man, unless there was decent in the mix.

She has a CENOMAR = Certificate of No Marriage from the PSA in the Philippines.  It is a valid document, the embassy is very wise on fraudulent documents.

Yet you have this obsession.     Do you possess a marriage certificate between your wife and this other man?  You don't really mention.

Can she get an annulment?   The first question that comes to mind is .. How?  She isn't shown to be married in the Philippines... ????

AOS.. to get the conditional green card; the process is about two things for the most part; having a valid marriage and you being financially able meet the support requirements... DONE.   Will you be interviewed?  Possible.  My wife and I were ... they asked my wife questions about our home and our car, they asked me about her family  ...     Done.        2 years later you will need to provide documents showing you have been living as husband and wife... DONE.

You are trying to make mud for some unknown reason ...  just my opinion.   What is your down card that you are not showing?

I couldn't agree more with this at all. If she got a visa to come here under the K1 visa and married you then her marriage in the Philippines WAS NOT LEGAL AT ALL AND THUS NOT RECOGNIZED by the Philippine government. 

It is very common in the Philippines to do this type of "marriage" because it is easier than actually getting married and having to deal with an annulment in the future. So some people either just live together or have a simple ceremony that does not constitute an actual legal marriage. 

 

What are you trying to get at here and what is your endgame OP? It seems to me like you have just become obsessed with her previous "marriage" and want it annulled even though it wasn't even legal to start with. 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by cyberfx1024

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

8 hours ago, asdx said:

No government knows about the previous marriage.

 

I was hoping someone could give me a contact or two.  I tried for a while today, and got one email sent through.  I have been searching makati as it is the only city I know of where there is a good chance at the attorney having technology.  I remember there are many attorneys there too.  I spent a year over there.  Most of the ones I seen did not have websites I mean functional ones with working links and emails.

I found two of them today.  I called one and they have an office in California and manila, but 300$ for an initial consult.  I found one in manila who has a working email and sent them information.  I just need to find out if an annulment can be done and if they can help me with it long distance.

I did speak to two today immigration attorneys in the US.  Both told me what I was wondering.  I need to speak to a philippine attorney about an annulment, only then could they help me.  One told me off the record not legal advice no attorney client etc....  I could file for her green card she may not get an interview.  If she did get one they may not ask about a previous marriage.  If they did ask then I would want proof of the annulment in hand.

 

 

Why are you stirring the pot? Your wife's marriage was not legal, and it was not recognized by the Philippine government at all. So there is NO ANNULMENT that you can file a case on. 

 

But if you don't want to listen to us then feel free about sending money to a Philippine attorney. If you want to complain about a $300 consultation fee then you won't like a Philippine attorney prices because an annulment is around $5k on average, and that's actually a low number.

 

Stop making mountains out of mole hills. 

[RO_AH 1,659]

I do understand the OP original concern. He doesn't want there to be any chance that in the future if she goes to visit the Philippines that she could be charged with bigamy. If you want to try to clear it by all means go ahead. But prepare for a long effort and substantial costs. My feeling is that you have a valid marriage in the US and a cenomar which was obtained in order to have that marriage. If the PSA issued her a cenomar they have no record of her being married EVER. If she or both of you travel there I don't see how there would be any reason for anyone to check on any status of any marriage in her past. Of the millions of Filipinos that travel home every year do you think that their government has time to do that kind of research on each person? Especially if everything seems legit?

 

Like I said this battle is up to you. If it were me I would let it go.

[Hank_ 9,174]

7 hours ago, RO_AH said:

I do understand the OP original concern. He doesn't want there to be any chance that in the future if she goes to visit the Philippines that she could be charged with bigamy. If you want to try to clear it by all means go ahead. But prepare for a long effort and substantial costs. My feeling is that you have a valid marriage in the US and a cenomar which was obtained in order to have that marriage. If the PSA issued her a cenomar they have no record of her being married EVER. If she or both of you travel there I don't see how there would be any reason for anyone to check on any status of any marriage in her past. Of the millions of Filipinos that travel home every year do you think that their government has time to do that kind of research on each person? Especially if everything seems legit?

 

Like I said this battle is up to you. If it were me I would let it go.

There is a L-O-N-G list of Filipinas where that is possible... they got a divorce in a foreign country, it is not accepted in the Philippines, but the divorce decree was fine for the visa process.   Thus according to PSA they are married to a different person, but to the rest of the world ... not.

 

OP... Naaaaa... making mud pies is still my thinking.