How much proof is too much proof?

[TBoneTX 45,288]

On June 19, 2017 at 11:10 AM, geowrian said:

There is no requirement to prove a bona fide relationship prior to the interview. It's not part of the I-129F or application process until the interview.

 

Most COs do not make up their mind prior to the interview. COs at certain high fraud countries are believed to do so, but that's an exception to the rule, not the norm. Front loading is not necessary in most cases.

Although technically correct, the above -- in practice -- can prove to be some of the most dangerous advice ever put forth on this site, in regard to non-powderpuff consulates with poorly trained COs.

Edited June 21, 2017 by TBoneTX

[TBoneTX 45,288]

On June 19, 2017 at 3:48 PM, geowrian said:

The burden is on the beneficiary to show that they are eligible for the visa (including having a bona fide relationship). The CO does not have to show any evidence that it is not real to deny the application.

This is correct, as is the idea of quality over quantity.

[geowrian 22,337]

39 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Although technically correct, the above -- in practice -- is some of the most dangerous advice ever put forth on this site, in regard to non-powderpuff consulates.

It depends on the embassy/consulate processing the application if it may be beneficial or not to front load the application. I did not (and would not) refer to Iran or any MENA country with this. I stand by the statement that with many embassies, front loading is unnecessary. With some, it may be beneficial (and with certain very high fraud embassies, you're almost guaranteed a refusal without it).

 

As I believe the consensus is quality > quantity, I'd rather spend the little time afforded to present really good evidence and keep the focus on that. But that's just my $0.02.

Edited June 21, 2017 by geowrian

[TBoneTX 45,288]

Good clarification.

[lierre 224]

On June 19, 2017 at 2:48 PM, geowrian said:

PH isn't really considered high fraud for family-based immigrant visas. It does have a lot of fraud (lots of applications), but looking at percentages, the refusal rate is fairly low and on par with other non-high fraud countries. It is generally considered high fraud for non-immigrant visas (tourist, student, etc.), though.

 

There's pros and cons to front loading. I personally would disagree that having more upfront is always better. Everything that you submit can also be used against you.

 

 

The Philippines has always been considered high fraud and is among the ranks of top countries of origin for unauthorized immigrants. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/18/chapter-2-birthplaces-of-u-s-unauthorized-immigrants/ 

 

The general consensus re: immigration has ALWAYS been that countries that are poorer and have need for visas anywhere they go, it's tougher... because risk of fraud is higher. Fraud through non-immigrant visas is how and why family-based immigrant applicants are affected, too. Even for Philippine migrants.

 

Advising to not be upfront is quite dangerous. It's better to have more information rather than be sidetracked or be delayed due to immigration needing more documents.

 

As I always say on here... Quality over quantity. Don't just send everything. Make sure every single piece of evidence you send tells a story. And addresses any issue that you think might pose as a red flag to them. Provide info, not suspicion.

 

[geowrian 22,337]

2 hours ago, ivyanddan said:

The Philippines has always been considered high fraud and is among the ranks of top countries of origin for unauthorized immigrants. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/18/chapter-2-birthplaces-of-u-s-unauthorized-immigrants/ 

 

The general consensus re: immigration has ALWAYS been that countries that are poorer and have need for visas anywhere they go, it's tougher... because risk of fraud is higher. Fraud through non-immigrant visas is how and why family-based immigrant applicants are affected, too. Even for Philippine migrants.

I'm not saying that high rates of NIV abuse has no impact on IV cases (desperate people will be desperate), but look around for how many K-1 & CR-1/IR-1 visa cases are refused (and not overcome) relative to the number of applicants from PH. USEM is not a particularly difficult embassy if you have a real relationship (age gaps don't raise flags, they very rarely request the I-134, they almost always issue a 221g for more relationship evidence if the evidence presented at the interview was inadequate, etc.). Maybe me wording was imprecise (high fraud vs difficult)...? There is a lot of fraud for for K-1s, but there's also more K-1s issued from USEM than any other embassy, so the ratio of refusals isn't particularly high.

http://www.visatutor.com/k-1-visa-statistics-2017/

 

If I'm incorrect, then I'm open to it. But I've seen a lot of USEM cases and have done some fairly extension searches (VJ and otherwise), and the number of reported cases ultimately denied due to a lack of a bona fide relationship is indistinguishable from any "normal" embassy. I know only a small portion of people actually report their experiences (denials more-so than approvals), but there's no reason to believe that's measurably different than with any other embassy.

 

Since this is going off topic, feel free to PM me to further discuss so we don't clog up this thread. My mailbox is normally full but I cleaned up some old threads so it should be fine now. Thank you.

 

Quote

Advising to not be upfront is quite dangerous. It's better to have more information rather than be sidetracked or be delayed due to immigration needing more documents.

 

As I always say on here... Quality over quantity. Don't just send everything. Make sure every single piece of evidence you send tells a story. And addresses any issue that you think might pose as a red flag to them. Provide info, not suspicion.

I'm not saying in any way not to provide everything requested. But I also don't believe in providing items that are not requested and not relevant. Always be upfront and respond to any request or question completely and honestly. Providing documents that are not needed is just one more way to get sidetracked. I'd prefer to focus on what's important and required.

 

And yes, for the interview, make sure you're over-prepared. Not excessive (again, don't get bogged down in the little things), but it's better to have more than reasonably necessary than to not have it and have to provide later. A CO is not going to consider a document they have not reviewed, and there's not a whole lot of time to show off relationship evidence. I can share my personal checklist of documents if you'd like: about 8+ folders worth of documents ...organized by type of documentation (and prioritized) to show. I suggest others be prepared as well, especially if going through a more difficult embassy than USEM. My comment was with regards to the I-129F, not the interview, though (and as stated before, with some embassies front loading is suggested or even necessary).

Edited June 22, 2017 by geowrian