Cantonese vs Mandarin name translation

[Scott B 1]

I received my first RFE last week.  It is a ooppss.  My fiancee was married in 2004 and divorced in 2007.  Her ex-husband is from Hong Kong and his name in Cantonese is translated into English letters "Kowk Kay Ng".  Unfortunately, her divorce papers are from mainland China and his name was translated using Mandarin pinyin as "GuoJi Wu".  

 

Our I-129F and G-325A both use the correct Cantonese English translation Kowk Kay Ng.  

 

The RFE I received is asking for a divorce certificate for Kowk Kay Ng.  

 

I read over all of our papers many times and just did not catch the obvious because I can read his name in Cantonese and it just did not hit me that it would be problem with the Mandarin vs Cantonese English translation of his name.

 

Does anyone know what the chances would be if I replied with a letter explaining what happened?  I could send evidence that there is only one person i.e. a copy of his Hong Kong ID card and point out the Chinese characters in the divorce paper and ID card are the same.  I would rather not go through the expense and time needed to get another full set of divorce papers and have them translated again.

 

 

Grrrrr----Wish I had a better first post.

-Scott

 

 

[RandyW 149]

1 hour ago, Scott B said:

I received my first RFE last week.  It is a ooppss.  My fiancee was married in 2004 and divorced in 2007.  Her ex-husband is from Hong Kong and his name in Cantonese is translated into English letters "Kowk Kay Ng".  Unfortunately, her divorce papers are from mainland China and his name was translated using Mandarin pinyin as "GuoJi Wu".  

 

Our I-129F and G-325A both use the correct Cantonese English translation Kowk Kay Ng.  

 

The RFE I received is asking for a divorce certificate for Kowk Kay Ng.  

 

I read over all of our papers many times and just did not catch the obvious because I can read his name in Cantonese and it just did not hit me that it would be problem with the Mandarin vs Cantonese English translation of his name.

 

Does anyone know what the chances would be if I replied with a letter explaining what happened?  I could send evidence that there is only one person i.e. a copy of his Hong Kong ID card and point out the Chinese characters in the divorce paper and ID card are the same.  I would rather not go through the expense and time needed to get another full set of divorce papers and have them translated again.

 

 

Grrrrr----Wish I had a better first post.

-Scott

 

 

 

 

That sounds like your best bet, short of re-filing the I-129F and G-325A using the Mandarin spelling. Perhaps treat it as an "also known as" or alias, e.g., " I have enclosed a copy of the divorce decree for Kowk Kay Ng, also known as (Mandarin spelling) Guo Ji Wu".

 

Be sure to include a (second) copy of the divorce decree with the letter.

Edited June 19, 2017 by RandyW

[Coco8 1,042]

I don't know anything about the language, but could you also enclose a letter from a translator saying that the translation of this person's name from Cantonese <--> English, and from Mandarin <-->English, and from Cantonese <--> Mandarin, and that this is the same name. This person could also explain that document A is in Cantonese and document B is in Mandarin. 

[RandyW 149]

12 hours ago, Coco8 said:

I don't know anything about the language, but could you also enclose a letter from a translator saying that the translation of this person's name from Cantonese <--> English, and from Mandarin <-->English, and from Cantonese <--> Mandarin, and that this is the same name. This person could also explain that document A is in Cantonese and document B is in Mandarin. 

 

 

The WRITTEN language in China is Chinese, for both Mandarin AND Cantonese, which are spoken dialects of the Chinese language.

 

So the original decree is in Chinese, with no ambiguity. The ambiguity comes when it is translated to English - the ambiguity is only in his fiance's name. A phonetic spelling is used, based on either the Mandarin or the Cantonese pronunciation.

 

The Hong Kong ID should resolve the ambiguity, since it will show the Chinese characters, which should be identical to what is on the decree.

 

That is, the documents are CHINESE and ENGLISH. The only discrepancy is in the ENGLISH version of the name.

[Scott B 1]

She was able to meet with a lawyer and her ex-husband in Hong Kong and get a legal "oath" type paper from the lawyer's office explaining what happened.  I hope this letter is enough.  

 

The RFE is also asking for more information about how we met and provide more proof of an on-going relationship.  Should be easy because we have almost daily e-mails since 2015.  I thought I provided enough evidence in my package.  

 

I hope this will be enough.   We do not call each other during the week due to work schedules and kid school schedules.  Does screen captures of phone calls work?  We use the app QQinternational for video calls.

 

-Scott

[PandaMaker 24]

On 6/19/2017 at 8:50 AM, RandyW said:

 

 

The WRITTEN language in China is Chinese, for both Mandarin AND Cantonese, which are spoken dialects of the Chinese language.

 

So the original decree is in Chinese, with no ambiguity. The ambiguity comes when it is translated to English - the ambiguity is only in his fiance's name. A phonetic spelling is used, based on either the Mandarin or the Cantonese pronunciation.

 

The Hong Kong ID should resolve the ambiguity, since it will show the Chinese characters, which should be identical to what is on the decree.

 

That is, the documents are CHINESE and ENGLISH. The only discrepancy is in the ENGLISH version of the name.

 

In this case, it's not entirely accurate, with the key point in that he's referring to a document from Hong Kong. If he's talking about a Hong Kong ID card, then the written characters would be in traditional characters, rather than simplified characters, which is what Mainland China uses. While there are characters that are identical (the Hong Kong ID card DOES have a lot of identical characters as simplified characters), most characters have differences between the two, to a point that the characters cannot be read by many people from either side of the border. Hong Kong does not use the Pinyin input method, so it's more than just a pronunciation difference.

 

Anyways, I realize I'm late to the party, and I'm glad he was able to get this sorted out, hopefully to the satisfaction of USCIS.

[RandyW 149]

10 hours ago, PandaMaker said:

 

In this case, it's not entirely accurate, with the key point in that he's referring to a document from Hong Kong. If he's talking about a Hong Kong ID card, then the written characters would be in traditional characters, rather than simplified characters, which is what Mainland China uses. While there are characters that are identical (the Hong Kong ID card DOES have a lot of identical characters as simplified characters), most characters have differences between the two, to a point that the characters cannot be read by many people from either side of the border. Hong Kong does not use the Pinyin input method, so it's more than just a pronunciation difference.

 

Anyways, I realize I'm late to the party, and I'm glad he was able to get this sorted out, hopefully to the satisfaction of USCIS.

 

 

To translate to "English", the Chinese characters are Romanized - simply phonetically converted to the Western alphabet using Pinyin or any of a number of other phonetic spellings. Pinyin is used in mainland China, as well as Hong Kong (yes, it CAN be - and frequently is - used for Cantonese). See https://surnames.behindthename.com/names/usage/chinese-cantonese for several examples.

 

His name is in Chinese characters on the divorce decree, which I would think is exactly the same as what is on his Hong Kong ID, unless (like you're suggesting) they translated from Traditional to Simplified Chinese.

 

But yes, we can't look over their shoulder and it appears to be a done deal.

[Scott B 1]

Heres the update.  Our I-129f was approved on 8/18/2017.

 

It took an attorney in Hong Kong to write a notarized document explaining the name issue.  So the first hurdle is complete.

 

Wow what a ride.  Still can not believe everything is rolling forward.

 

Scott