Possible Breakup

[MairzyDoats 0]

Well, so much for the "breakthrough." We had an ugly row tonight on webcam and he ended in (as usual) hanging it up on me. He attacked me in just about every way he could, calling me a "stupid cow", using the "F" and "MF" words very frequently, calling me a "prune" (?), picking on my country (i.e. "Most English people hate Yanks...we were here first...we burned down the White House..." yes these are actual things he said!), picking on my work and my job search, picking on Catholicism (saying it is "foolish"), said I was "cold as ice", told me, "You don't realize how much power I've got. I can cut you off. You want me to/ it's close. Don't F with me. I'm THAT close." (Apparently he didn't understand what my breakup letter was all about. He threatened me up and down with HIS leaving ME!)

At first he was trying to convince me how much he loves me, and how this online persona of his isn't the same as in person, that I am acting only on the online stuff and should think of the stuff in real life and he says, "I can't get this through to you you stupid cow." He keeps saying how the distance is destroying our relationship, that we're different together in person and it will be like that again.

I think that things have been better in person, but I can't just say that who he is online doesn't exist at all in person. If you're capable of doing something online, you're capable offline (though you may need different circumstances to bring it out.) I feel my trust has been broken by the way he has treated me while we're apart. I understand he hates being online -- he said that my talking to people online was "a vice." But can I base an entire lifetime committment on our interactions for a mere FIVE WEEKS? He wants me to. He wants me to overlook the year's worth of online interaction in favor of the five weeks as a representative of who he is.

He said that I am "bitchy" online and not in real life and so on. I told him, was I not bitchy ever while you were here? (I for one KNOW I can get bitchy and I'm not denying it. But I want him to realize that I am who I am online and off. I think he doesn't want to see me like that, he has wishful thinking.) He said, "you weren't bitchy to me." So it's ok if I get bitchy with someone else offline but not if I'm bitchy with him online?

I can't figure out this on/offline stuff. It is like he is trying to tell me he's a totally different man offline. Is that possible? I keep trying to assert that I can't TRUST that what he says is true because we have only spent 5 weeks together. I need more than that to know for sure. And he is furious with me for needing that time.

He insists that he LOVES me LOVES me LOVES me, and I am a stupid idiot not to see it. I am unappreciative, I drain him and so on.

But tonight, well I've been ill the past few days and he asked how I was and I told him I was feeling bad and he said, "you're just feeling sorry for yourself." *sigh* He thinks I am always trying to manipulate him. It's like he's paranoid.

When I would cry about something online, he would tell me stop crying but in real life he says he'd comfort me, put his arm around me, but online he is very restricted in how he can react.

My question to you all: Am I this horrible selfish person who doesn't see a good thing in front of me, and is it true that YOUR fiance(e)'s have acted completely different online than offline? Or is he feeding me a whole lot of bull?

He said I broke his heart with my email about breaking up, and he said he was distraught but kept it inside. I said how can I react to you properly if you don't tell me what you're feeling or show anything? I'm left to assume, and I know that's wrong.

He lashed out at me but good. If you thought I deserved it, well I certainly was beaten down with lots of foul language and mean spirited attacks. This is why, I told him, I sent the email. I said we just don't get along, and I tried to put it as nicely as I could.

He even said he didn't care about the visa anymore (finally it leaves his number one priority) and that he could even tell his friends and family that he broke up with me because it was denied even if it wasn't. I said wouldn't that make you look bad, not getting the visa and breaking up with me because of it? and he said well you don't know what I've been telling anyone, anyway. (Wow, way to build my trust!)

And YES, he said he's still going for the visa. If I am this horrid person, why is he going for it? Riddle me THAT, Batman. Then he said he's be online whenever he wanted to be (Duh, that was NEWS? That's how he ALWAYS is!) and I would have to come to HIM as he would not be coming to me. Funny because after I sent the email he was all, "I'll do anything," and admitting the problems we've had and the miscommunication.

Ultimately if it is really the distance and pressures of communication, why should he take it out on me and punish me for it? He even said he would rather us be snail mail pen pals and that he was "living as a single person" because I'm not physically there.

There are just so many issues with long distance relationships. I never realized it could be like this.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Run. And don't look back.

Not that I read all of this thread but the first and last post I read and I tell you: run!

[JayJay 4]

Okay, here's my two cents on this. I've been following this topic since it started, always meaning to give a little input but I've waited until the time felt "right" to do so. It also helps to view your replies, and to see what opinions you yourself have about this situation you've found yourself in, and what type of person you are.

You remind me a lot of me, actually - I say this not lightly, but with a sense that you are going through something similar to what I have gone through a couple of times in the past.

Now let me delve a little further. I don't mean to pry, or be overly "psychologically analytical" with you here, and please correct me if I'm wrong - this is meant to help you and perhaps create some rapport between us. Relationships like this very, very often stem from early childhood experiences with one's own father especially - or at least a father figure. They taught us what men are, and what they are supposed to able to get away with - you with me?

My own father was very distant, fro example, and really didn't pay much attention to the needs of my mother as I was growing up. He had many sparkling qualities and we share the most wonderful relationship now, but back then, he built in me the infrastructure of what a relationship between a man and a woman was supposed to entail. He would often get rather drunk, and my mother would be the one cleaning up. he would do basically whatever he felt like doing, and my mother would always be there in the aftermath. She stayed for a very long time - well after I left home, and just put up with all of that like a saint, until she finally had enough, cracked and kicked him out. it took her well over twenty years to do this...and do you know what? She finally found the strength to jump out of a plane with an instructor on her fiftieth birthday!

I left home at sixteen and embarked on a series of dramatically crazy relationships. I was almost killed by one man who was as emotionally unavailable to me as my father had been to my mother. I then went out with a few people who were clearly not interested in settling down at all, and proceeded to make excuses for them on many, many occasions just to keep the relationship together and prove my mother "wrong" - see what I mean? I didn't know any different. I went out with a number of seriously immature men who had no concept yet of what it is to give oneself and one's heart all to another. But as I said, I didn't know any different - I passed the good boys by because I didn't recognize them as individuals with whom I could have a relationship. Essentially I went after the "bad boys".

Now this all culminated in me meeting my husband. We are still together, and things are better now than they have ever been in the whole of our relationship - but it took a LOT of doing.

My husband came from a nightmarish childhood into the world of being "grown up" rather suddenly, I thought. His father would beat him with various home-made objects like barbed wire beating things, or red hot stoves, or belts. His father was a very terrible alcoholic and at some point introduced him deliberately to Bacardi and Coke at the age of about 5 or 6. Soon, he was drinking aftershave and his sister's perfume at his mother's house just to get high - at the age of eight. His father beat his mother, sometimes so badly that she would have to turn one side of her face away in fear that someone would see - because God knows what he'd do when he got home if someone found out... now, his father later faced up to the facts and went into recovery with AA about ten years ago and has come a heck of a long way. But as I was about to find out, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree - especially when the apple has been neglected and none of the apple's problems have ever been acknowledged.

He would do very much the same things as your fiancé is doing while we were dating - i.e. ignoring me, not responding. At one point we even broke up for about six months because he one day decided never to speak to me again!

We had that hurdle, and then he decided to "change" and so I came over and we got married. Now you may think this is the end of the story, but it is not. For the next year and a half, things were very, very difficult. You see my husband had never learned what it was to appreciate and listen to another person. He did not want to be part of a relationship, but did assume that I should stay with him no matter what and really didn't give me a second thought. For a long time, it was as though I were a plant and he wasn't watering me. Then one day, as a person looks at the plant they have not been watering, he saw me floundering and dying and had absolutely no idea why that was.

In short, here is what progressively began to happen to us. I am one of the very, very lucky ones - many, many other women are not. Many women get killed in relationships like these, and I caution you to never, ever take what I am about to say lightly if you value your life.

It began with serious emotional abuse - progressing through what you have been talking about - which is pretty bad emotional abuse, by the way - to physical abuse. I'm talking things like "your own family don't even want you - that's why you're here and not in England!" and your usual barrage of names (you can imagine, I'm sure). Then it got to the stage, when he realized I was balking, that he would slowly try and control more and more of what I could and could not do. He would walk after me when he was in a bad mood, turning all the lights off and preventing me from using any of "his" utilities. he'd kick me out of bed and make me sleep on the floor, or the basement. He would stop me petting our animals, saying I "could not be trusted" with them. He wouldn't let me watch TV, and would keep me up all night with the surround sound system and close the door to the upstairs part of the house so that the heat could not get up there, thereby freezing me half to death (he'd also taken the covers off the bed).

Then, again, slowly, the physical violence started to show up. It started with shoving, then on to pinching, biting (sometimes so hard he would leave horrific bruises), and then on to slapping. A few months ago, he started choking me. now I say this all in a perfectly calm tone of voice because it has been dealt with and is behind me (as I will explain later) but at the time, I could easily have been killed. Laying on the basement floor being asphyxiated with your husband sitting on your chest is not the funnest way to spend a Saturday night, is it?

All through this, his alcoholism was getting worse and worse. It got to the point where he was no longer sober any of the day. He would stay out all night long at his friend's houses getting incredibly drunk etc, and then expect to be able to come home, eyes-glazed and get fresh with me. Well, by now, as you can expect, I was no longer feeling very happy with him - in fact, it had gotten to the point at which I could no longer stand him and really, honestly wished he would put himself in the hospital. He was driving drunk every day without his license, and things had gone too far.

So I left him. I then outed him to his entire family and all of his friends - including his father. I went to Iowa and let them do as they wanted.

For about two weeks, he was better - but then the demon alcohol got the better of him and he flipped from being a dry drunk into a very, very wet drunk once more, and this all culminated a few months ago with one spectacularly bad night in which he not only flung me around, but also tried to hurl me off the banister down the stairs, caught me in the side of the head and started asking for my house keys to turn me out into the street - it was sixteen degrees at the time.

So how did this situation get better, I hear you ask? Well, here's how it got better: I called 911 before he could get the phone off me, and called the cops. Something that in his drunken rages he always taunted me with. And I did it.

Why did that make it better? Well...it got worse before it got better - that's for sure. he took off in the car, got pulled over by the police, lost all of his money, blew a 0.209 on the breathalyser and suddenly the party was over. While I sat on my living room floor simultaneously shaking, being hysterical, crying loudly like a child and wondering if the dog needed to go out (the thoughts one has at a time like that, ey?) he was arrested on eight charges, including four counts of DUI, refusal, driving on a suspended license and fifth degree domestic assault. He was taken to jail while I wondered how the h$ll I was going to get to work on time and what the heck I was supposed to do now.

I was put in touch with a domestic violence unit, a policeman came to take photographs of me, and everything was upside-down.

The next day, there he was, absolutely beside himself and in tears in a jail cell, calling me and sober for the first time in about two months. That was the jolt he needed.

That is a very, very harsh jolt - believe me. It's a very expensive jolt. A very emotionally terrible jolt - especially having to be the one to call him in. Telling a 911 operator "domestic violence" is a crazily hard thing to do.

Now, he is in two treatment programs - he finally asked for help, calling his mother in floods of tears after his family (who all love him very much) bailed him out. Finally, for the first time in his life he had the guts to ask for help and admit he had a terrible problem (or rather, a number of them) and that he needed to be taken and helped. now, he wears an ankle bracelet and is going to counseling/psychotherapy and treatment for ADD, alcoholism and substance abuse.

Having a relationship with this kind of man is no small feat. I am sorry to have to go into so much detail - I'm certainly not asking for sympathy here, as things are now very calm, he has a great job and is finally making progress - but this - THIS is how violent relationships progress from emotional violence into physical violence.

Honey, do not for a second think "he's not like that". I love, love LOVE my husband to death - but he could have killed me. Easily. It wasn't only the drink either (as you have probably ascertained). Here's what you need to do - and it's scary as hell:

Sit down and make a very harsh inventory of where you want your life to go. Do not under any circumstances think everything will be okay - because your man has emotional issues he needs to tackle BEFORE getting involved with anyone at all.

Ask yourself how much you're worth. You may have had a role model somewhere and that's why you're gravitating toward "forgiving" him, but what if your daughter or your sister or your mother were going through this - what would you say to them? Would this behavior be "okay" in any way, shape or form if it were happening to someone you loved? And if so, how much do you love yourself to let this happen to yourself?

Nobody said making difficult decisions would be easy: that's why they're called difficult decisions. You are the best tool you have to help others and get yourself through this life alive (until the end) - don't batter yourself on the rocks of this relationship. your mother and father wanted more for you.

Be aware that if you do choose to continue this relationship, you will be in danger. it's very tempting to imagine that the issues will all go away and everything will be peachy - but they will not. Issues are issues: they don't go away. By making excuses for him, you are helping him to continue this pattern of behavior - and he will. Be prepared for that, and be on the lookout for the signs - because believe me, they will be there.

Keep yourself safe. I'm sorry this has been such a long post - but if there's something I can do, it is give some insight on how relationships progress from emotional to physical violence. Don't let your self esteem, your soul and sense of self be destroyed by this - you owe it to yourself to ask for the full 100% from the word go. Never, ever settle for anything less - sure, people argue - but this is something beyond that, and I think you and I both know that.

Love to you.

[MairzyDoats 0]

Run away from this one.

You should be marrying your best friend...the man who is dying to just talk to you at the end of the day. Like someone else said, Stewart's NOT a phone person, but we spend so much time talking just to be close to eachother. This guys sounds like a total *****.

Run.

I totally agree with CarolineM. David (my husband) and I talked on the phone three times a day even before we were engaged. We met through the internet almost four years ago. Not only we talked on the phone but he sent emails too. I am now residing happily with him in Texas. Next Tuesday is our third wedding anniversary. He still calls me at least once a day at work just to ask how my day's going and of course to tell me he loves me. Yep, my man never fails to communicate.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do...

~Dora

Dora, that's the kind of man I'm looking for. In fact I am back in touch with an old friend (we've had feelings for one another but obviously it was not pursued for various reasons which I'm not sure impede us now) and he is eager to talk to me each day. Granted we're not in a visa situation and we're not engaged, but we're good friends. I thought my fiance and I were friends, but I've been walking on eggshells around him for a while now and he's broken my heart and left me unable to think, sleep, work, eat etc. He attacks me at every turn. thing is he keeps saying how he loves me and how STUPID I am that I can't see it.

Can any of you see how much he loves me? It's like he is trying to beat me up with love. "Dang it I LOVE YOU! *punch punch punch* why don't you seeeee it??"

[Alex+R 0]

Mairzy, why don't you just give up and stop talking to him. Men like that can wake up one day willing to change and grow up and those of us who are lucky enough to have our relationships change like that are, well, only lucky...and it's not very likely. Maybe the missing piece for you here is that love is not enough to make a relationship. If one person does not know how to express that love like a compassionate mature person, what's the use in their loving at all? If he is not making a HUGE EFFORT to change for you so he doesn't lose you, it's not worth it.

[KHURRAM SERAJ 0]

Lost for words

[Fandango 1,439]

Why are you still talking to & fighting with him if you've decided it's over?

And

He cannot pursue the visa against your wishes. YOU have petitioned for him, therefore YOU need to make sure the appt is cancelled. That is if you're really done with this. Prolly not, but....it's worth saying again. If you don't want him, it is your responsibility to make sure the petition is withdrawn and his appt is cancelled. You've proven visa fraud insomuch as saying neither of you really want to get married, and being that these are gov't documents and you're attesting for this man, I'd be awfully steadfast in clearing the paperwork.

[kitkat1 5]

My question to you all: Am I this horrible selfish person who doesn't see a good thing in front of me, and is it true that YOUR fiance(e)'s have acted completely different online than offline? Or is he feeding me a whole lot of bull?

This is INSANE. There is NOTHING good in front of you. And it's not about online/offline. My fiance is the same loving person online, on the webcam, on the phone or in person. This guy is a first class jerk, manipulating you, threatening you, calling you names, etc. Why on earth would consider marrying someone like this, let alone being friends with someone who treats you like this?

There are just so many issues with long distance relationships. I never realized it could be like this.

True, but in your case it's more than obvious that the issues are not due to the distance. Forget about this already. Cancel the petition, the visa appointment, block his access to you online, change your phone number and get the hell out of this relationship. Then, consider counseling for yourself.

[gwenneh 7]

My question to you all: Am I this horrible selfish person who doesn't see a good thing in front of me, and is it true that YOUR fiance(e)'s have acted completely different online than offline? Or is he feeding me a whole lot of bull?

He is feeding you a lot of bull. People have said this to you in any way imaginable - if this is what he acts like online it is representative of what he will act like offline. It's not a "persona".

There are just so many issues with long distance relationships. I never realized it could be like this.

Don't confuse the abuse you're describing with an actual, loving relationship. These are NOT issues that crop up in a bona-fide long distance relationship. Sure, they have their moments - this is excessive and you've already been given heaps of good advice on how to deal with this. You can see what's going on here or you wouldn't be asking for advice. The question is whether or not you have the guts and self-respect to take it.

The world will NOT come to an end if you leave this f*cker. It may hurt. You may have to explain things to friends and family, which can be awkward - but better that than to be trapped into a "green-card" marriage with an emotionally manipulative b*stard.

[MairzyDoats 0]

Why are you still talking to & fighting with him if you've decided it's over?

And

He cannot pursue the visa against your wishes. YOU have petitioned for him, therefore YOU need to make sure the appt is cancelled. That is if you're really done with this. Prolly not, but....it's worth saying again. If you don't want him, it is your responsibility to make sure the petition is withdrawn and his appt is cancelled. You've proven visa fraud insomuch as saying neither of you really want to get married, and being that these are gov't documents and you're attesting for this man, I'd be awfully steadfast in clearing the paperwork.

Lisa I keep asking myself the same thing! It's like what JayJay said above, sticking with the person. Now I can't judge her for sticking with her man, but my man and I have not been getting along online AT ALL. But since it's online, I always have this niggling little feeling that maybe he is the one in the right and I'm wrong. But then I say to myself, "Does a man who calls you a stupid cow REALLY love you?" I mean even if we were both crazy about each other I don't think I could ever forgive that comment or much of what he said tonight even if it was just in anger. He's a very aggressive guy and he KNOWS it. He knows this is a huge problem and it has been getting worse for him and he is aggressive with people at work, too. He knows this is hurting him big time but he still lashes out at ME.

He told me he'd sleep well tonght. Well I have no doubt he will, and I have no doubt that he has slept well EVERY night. I'm the one with my stomach in knots and pain, with the shortness of breath and headache over it all. I always get myself completely physicallygutted from al my emotional turmoils. So why DO I stay with him? I don't even see him, why can't I let go?

It took A LOT and I mean A LOT to write that first email to him, and I am having trouble following through.

[homesick_american 1]

Dora, that's the kind of man I'm looking for. In fact I am back in touch with an old friend (we've had feelings for one another but obviously it was not pursued for various reasons which I'm not sure impede us now) and he is eager to talk to me each day. Granted we're not in a visa situation and we're not engaged, but we're good friends. I thought my fiance and I were friends, but I've been walking on eggshells around him for a while now and he's broken my heart and left me unable to think, sleep, work, eat etc. He attacks me at every turn. thing is he keeps saying how he loves me and how STUPID I am that I can't see it.

Can any of you see how much he loves me? It's like he is trying to beat me up with love. "Dang it I LOVE YOU! *punch punch punch* why don't you seeeee it??"

Just stop talking to him. If you've broken up with him, fine...after two people who live on different continents break up, they stop talking to each other. Don't let him drag you into another conversation, and don't you start one with him; that's drama queen stuff. Just walk away and don't look back. Just. Walk. Away.

[homesick_american 1]

He told me he'd sleep well tonght. Well I have no doubt he will, and I have no doubt that he has slept well EVERY night. I'm the one with my stomach in knots and pain, with the shortness of breath and headache over it all. I always get myself completely physicallygutted from al my emotional turmoils. So why DO I stay with him? I don't even see him, why can't I let go?

Remember when I said that you had self-esteem issues? This is proof. You can't let go because you think you deserve to be treated like this. You don't deserve to be treated like this, but if you keep going back to him...despite 11 pages of people telling you he's no good...then you may begin to deserve it, if you see what I mean. How badly is he going to have to treat you? Are you going to wait for him to get to the USA, possibly marry you, then beat you? He sounds like the type. What's it going to take for you to see him for what he is?

It took A LOT and I mean A LOT to write that first email to him, and I am having trouble following through.

I'm sure it did. I wish you would take my advice and see a therapist. This sort of attitude is not healthy.

As for following through...it is VERY VERY VERY EASY to dump someone from 4,000 miles away. Just. Stop. Talking. To. Him.

[MairzyDoats 0]

Ya know, I think I feel very guilty because he travelled here twice and spent thousands of dollars on travel and he's bought me nice gifts, the engagement ring, a watch, a dress, perfume, cute shirts, an mp3 player, a swarovski necklace and more. He was always so attentive with everything (but of course as I said, we have not even been in touch much since January and even between July and December we were fighting a lot. (lest I seem a golddigger, none of this was solicited. My last relationship was with a guy who wrote me 2 letters in the space of 8 years and who often did not give me birthday cards much less gifts. So I was used to never getting material things from men.)

Not to say I didn't buy him anything myself, I bought him a new webcam and headset and a ring engraved inside and a personalized mug, etc. and so on.

I am not stingy by any means, I love to give gifts and I always sent him cards, too. He used to send me cards as well, and lovely letters.

It just strikes me as so WEIRD that he can be so loving and generous and attentive and really make your heart melt and then be such a complete #######. After we met, he'd told me he thought he was bi polar or something and said since he was a Gemini he felt he had "two personalities." He had not mentioned that in months, but I'm remembering it now and that's why I have such a hard time not talking to him at all. I keep wanting to see the NICE guy in him, but then I am just so hurt by the bad guy in him.

What do you do when someone is so, for lack of a better description, "two faced"? It's like he is twins and I never know which one I'm talking to, though the one I talk to online really SUCKS! Not to say the other one in person doesn't also do mean things to me...but there it is.

He confuses me so much, then he comes on and demands that I tell him what's what.

Edited April 16, 2007 by MairzyDoats

[MairzyDoats 0]

(oh yeah I also rented a car when he was here and drove him everywhere since he doesn't drive.)

Self esteem issues, trust issues...yes, that's me. even though I didn't demand anything monetary or material from him I still feel terribly guilty because I guess I think I don't deserve to be given anything or treated well. I always seem to find men who are emotionally unavailable, and I thought how lovely it was to have this guy who was so open and generous with his heart and with letters and little things that mean so much.

how it turned into him constantly yelling at me and calling me a "prune" and a "stupid cow" I don't know.

Maybe one of the problems is that he is 9 years younger than I am. I never thought it would be a terrible problem because he always said age didn't matter but now I think it does. He is only 24, will be 25 in June. My father was 9 years younger than my mom, and oddly enough HIS mother was 9 years older than his father.

But here he is calling me a "prune" when I never (to my memory) ever used his age against him.

And yes i guess I AM too old for this carp.

Edited April 16, 2007 by MairzyDoats

[homesick_american 1]

(oh yeah I also rented a car when he was here and drove him everywhere since he doesn't drive.)

Self esteem issues, trust issues...yes, that's me. even though I didn't demand anything monetary or material from him I still feel terribly guilty because I guess I think I don't deserve to be given anything or treated well. I always seem to find men who are emotionally unavailable, and I thought how lovely it was to have this guy who was so open and generous with his heart and with letters and little things that mean so much.

how it turned into him constantly yelling at me and calling me a "prune" and a "stupid cow" I don't know.

Maybe one of the problems is that he is 9 years younger than I am. I never thought it would be a terrible problem because he always said age didn't matter but now I think it does. He is only 24, will be 25 in June. My father was 9 years younger than my mom, and oddly enough HIS mother was 9 years older than his father.

But here he is calling me a "prune" when I never (to my memory) ever used his age against him.

And yes i guess I AM too old for this carp.

Mairzy...you sound like you already know what needs to be done. From what you've written here, the guy is a right b@stard who does not deserve the time of day. Here is what you need to do:

* Cut off all contact with him. ALL.

* Withdraw the K-1 petition.

* If he makes any threats DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED.