Possible Breakup

[MairzyDoats 0]

Obviously this is very important to you, but you can be a good Catholic and still be married to a Protestant. My grandmother, who was Polish and VERY religious, married a Protestant and raised her kids Catholic. My mother married a Protestant and raised us Catholic. It isn't the end of the world and if he were perfect in every other way, I would not consider this to be a deal-breaker. Then again, I'm atheist so I don't attach any importance to religion at all.

I just want to reiterate that I am not against marrying a Protestant at all. I even told him if he wanted to look into the many denominations, it would be good to find what matches what he believes since many Christian denoms can be different in many ways. It's not about being Catholic, it's about being baptized.

[MairzyDoats 0]

Catholics are not "restricted" from marrying non-Catholics. The agreements to raise children according to the faith are accurate - but there's no prohibition.

Absolutely. My mother (a Catholic) married my dad (a Methodist) and nobody ever told her she'd burn in hell for it. She did raise my brother and I Catholic though; I never thought it was fair of her to punish us for her marrying outside the faith. ;) ;)

I didn't get threatened with hell or anything like that. It's simply my choice whom I marry, and I feel more comfortable marrying a baptized person according to my church. I can walk away from my church any time, but I choose not to. No one is forcing me to choose this, I do it because I know what I want in a husband, just as I also want a loving, loyal, fun and sweet person.

I personally don't have a problem marrying a non Catholic Christian, either. I've already discussed all of this with my Pastor as well. This is the sort of stuff you get out of the way when you first get to know one another. Your religion, your politics, your families, your backgrounds. You have a standard of what you will and what you will not accept in a potential mate. And those standards are up to you when filtering the dating pool.

[elguevon 16]

Blah Blah...so us men are pr*cks...heard it all before.

In case of this particular clown, I think you are right!

This is what you do and end this thread:

1st - Cancel the interview

2nd - Screw this guy over like he screwed you by notifying the USCIS that this clown seems to just want the visa.

That way he is red-flagged in case he tries to do it again to some other woman....and hopefully gets caught early in the process rather than almost to the Interview.

3rd - Get over it. It sucks all that work you did to get this far and have it end like this. Get drunk, don't sleep with a bar patron, and move on. All that you can do....end of story.

Good Luck!

Geez....you are *such* a beacon in the night.

What? I just saved her $$$$ by paraphrasing what a shrink would say....after this 8 page thread I summarized what everyone is saying just right...only I did it in a non-sentimental, direct fashion....i know...quite a concept.

[MairzyDoats 0]

There's an awfully lot of talking going on here. Loads of places to read between the lines.

I've read your posts here before, Mairzy. You seem like an extremely high-strung kind of gal. Perhaps I'm wrong and it's just the 'intensity' of this relationship that has you wired up. All we can do here is sit and read, you know.

From what you've written, I really can't see what you and your fiance have in common. You're committed to a religion - he isn't. He likes to drink - you don't. You're a talker - he isn't. What drew you to him in the first place?

Maybe this?

Remember, all we can do is sit here and read.

He has accused me of wanting to marry him "just to be married" and he has accused me of "using him" to "have kids."

Rebecca, you're correct, I am very high-strung. I don't try to hide that from him. I talked to him this evening and actually after reading all of the responses and taking them all very seriously, I discussed a few things with him that really bothered me. He stayed calm and listened, and it is strange but we had something of a breakthrough in that I told him I don't want marriage right now with him or anyone as I need time. And he admitted that he also feels a bit fearful of marriage and well, would rather we "live together." That's not going to happen, but I was interested to hear about his feelings. He is younger than I am, and I tried to give him a break for that as well as for being English (*smile*) but you know, Rebecca you hit the nail on the head: we just don't have enough in common. We are two very different personalities. His is a more choleric and mine is melancholic and I get along much better with typical phlegmatics. It may be that I simply do NOT understand him and vice versa.

The new problem is that I told him we should NOT be going for this visa seeing as how both of us at heart do not want to enter a marriage. And he said that he was going to go to the interview anyway because he couldn't just miss "the opportunity." And I said, what is the point, it will be useless even if approved. We already HAVE our answer: we can't do this.

It was a relief to hear that he really didn't want to marry me (he just thought it was the only way to get to spend time with me. Looking back, wow that is CRAZY. You don't marry in order to DATE.) and maybe, just maybe this answers some of the questions that have come up. Maybe he has balked at being with me online, at communicating etc. because he didn't want a marriage at all. Maybe it really is a VISA he wants, as you've said. But he swore up and down that he loves me and that the visa isn't the case. But his insistence on going to that interview DESPITE both of us saying we don't want to -- and I said I CAN'T -- enter into a marriage strikes me as just wrong in every way.

I said we need to take this entire marriage stuff out of the picture and if we still want to know each other, we need to spend normal time together as friends. And he said there's no way to do that, and I said there are work and study visas, visits and so on. But you know, I am in such a place right now that I'm not invested in him the way I was.

So now it is up to me to withdraw the petition. Surely he must see that this is the proper solution. He said he needs to think about it and we need to talk about it more.

Thanks again to everyone for your advice and even the devil's advocacy because I certainly took everything into account to make sure I was not being completely narrow minded. It may be that he's an abuser, or just very immature, or just a very different personality, or what have you. What really matters is that he, if given a satisfactory alternative, would NOT want to marry me but take that alternative instead. And I told him point blank that I can not marry anyone right now. I have far too much to figure out.

[SoL. 0]

Mairzy,

I wish you the best of luck, hang in there. It's better having the situation clear now and not finding out when he was already here that none of you were ready for marriage. It might be painful for a bit, but you'll feel better. Please keep strong.

And I think that the best to do at this moment is withdraw/cancel the interview. And move on.

Good luck

[MairzyDoats 0]

i thought the origional poster might be a little demanding myself. first of all to say if i cant marry u if ur not baptized is the same as him telling her i cant marry u if i cant get the visa. first of all...if she wants a catholic then find a catholic. she says she didnt force him to change but really what is it if u say i cant marry u if ur not baptized. ur forcing this person to change. i as a christian didnt get baptized til i was in my 30's. its not as important to us as it is to a catholic. any way...jesus wasnt baptized until in his 30's either. in my opinion a catholic is not baptized anyway....they are christianed. baptism is the body fully emerssed in water and not just sprinked with a few drops of water as in infant. jesus was fully emerssed!!! anyway enough of the religion talk.

secondly if u r not a drinker then find someone who is not one also. i dont drink and sure the heck wouldnt want to marry someone that did. she said she told him it was ok that he didnt have to stop...but i think there might have been a demand on her part to him to stop. why ask him what he will do without it.

You are right on the bit about the drinking -- I didn't ask him to stop, but he said he'd be fine without it and I said, "Won't you miss it?" I was responding to what he asserted, that he could be without it. I was feeling him out to see where he stood, and he made it seem that he was not satisfied by drinking. actually, I shouldn't say drinking exactly, I should say getting drunk. Big difference. I have no problem with drinking, I have a problem with a person continually getting drunk for the many negatives reasons that go along with it.

I'm not sure what you meant when you said he said, "I can't marry you if you can't get the visa." Wouldn't that be true, though? It would certainly be a huge impediment, no?

I wasn't looking for a Catholic, just a baptized Christian. He said he was Christian, looking to get closer to God and into our religion. Baptism is a step in that direction, and seeing as how my church lists it as a requirement for a baptized Christian to marry another baptized Christian, I figured it would not be a problem and he seemed fine with it. It was always his decision and I was always prepared for his honest wishes. I was not asking him to change, I was merely stating that I'd been in a long relationship with a non Christian and I left it very dissatisfied and now wished to enter a relationship with a practicing Christian.

Your assertion about Jesus and full immersion is interesting. I did read about Phillip baptizing the eunuch in the Bible and it seems to me that only profession of faith and belief are required, for the eunuch then says, There is water, what is to prevent me from being baptized? And Phillip baptized him on the spot in the water. So your point is well taken on that -- why do Catholics need to enter a program of study for 9 months prior to being allowed to be baptized into the church? A non Catholic brought up the word "indoctrination" to me. I even wrote my Pastor about it but he passed the buck and said that it came from the higher ups and nothing could be done about it. I wrote to a baptist church for contrast and they said they usually baptize quite soon after a profession of faith. So there is a difference there.

i still maintain that I did not force him to change anything. he presented himself to me as a Christian from the start, a Christian who was seeking a closer relationship to God. If anything, he was "forcing" me to marry him without him being baptized because he did not WANT to be baptized... therefore he lied to me about his beliefs and intentions and then left me with a threatening, "So are you going to marry me unbaptized or not?"

think of it this way: if you were seeking a like minded individual who say for instance, was a pro choice, Liberal and you found a person who said they were those things, only to find out a few months later that they are Republican and feel strongly pro life, wouldn't you feel a little defrauded? Would it be you who was trying to change them, or they who simply were not honest with you?

A lot of people here seemed very interested in the baptism/religion aspect of my relationship and it seemed to me that some may have thought I was not allowed to make a decision about the type of person I was going to marry. With all due respect, I am allowed to make any kind of criteria or standards for a partner and it's not wrong -- we all do it. What is important to one person may seem trivial to the next. As I explained, I had already been in a long relationship with an agnostic man and I knew from experience that I needed and wanted a person who would share my faith.

If you're a dog lover, I certainly wouldn't demand that you open your dating pool to cat lovers. You go for the person who can share your love of dogs. A more simple example, but still. If you want to avoid a conflict in any area of your life, far be it from me to say you're not allowed to discriminate in whatever way suits you. I had a guy who refused to date me because I'm short! Such is life.

[VetsWife328 7]

I'm so sorry top hear this!!!!!! My heart goes out to you! And in my opinion maybe you should reconsider getting married to this man........

I'm in a similar situation........My Fiance is going through a very hard time right now with a lot of trouble at work and a never ending divorce (they now even dismissed it on Tuesday because of Inactivty since she keeps avoiding to be served with the papers...........) and the fact of missing me and my son so bad.

He has told me to leave him alone and seriously thinks about giving up while I was gonna fly to WA to see him in only 5 days.

The difference in the two cases is that I HEAR the love and the pain in my mans voice.

He was damn near crying three weeks ago when he yelled at me that this one week (I was supposed to be there ) wont help us because I will have to leave again and it's only gonna hurt us like hell to be together and then be seperated again for only God knows how long..........

But at least I KNOW and FEEL how much he loves me and how desperate he is because we can't even put the papers for the K1 in yet,not to spea of when we can finally be together for good...........

If I wouldn't FEEL his love for me and if he did what your man does-

that would be the end of it.

James and I would be the happiest ppl in the whole wide world if we had an Interview date in sight..........Like I said if I was you,I'd SERIOUSLY think about getting married to a man like that twice.

All the best to you

Nat

[homesick_american 1]

Catholics are not "restricted" from marrying non-Catholics. The agreements to raise children according to the faith are accurate - but there's no prohibition.

Absolutely. My mother (a Catholic) married my dad (a Methodist) and nobody ever told her she'd burn in hell for it. She did raise my brother and I Catholic though; I never thought it was fair of her to punish us for her marrying outside the faith. ;) ;)

I didn't get threatened with hell or anything like that. It's simply my choice whom I marry, and I feel more comfortable marrying a baptized person according to my church. I can walk away from my church any time, but I choose not to. No one is forcing me to choose this, I do it because I know what I want in a husband, just as I also want a loving, loyal, fun and sweet person.

I personally don't have a problem marrying a non Catholic Christian, either. I've already discussed all of this with my Pastor as well. This is the sort of stuff you get out of the way when you first get to know one another. Your religion, your politics, your families, your backgrounds. You have a standard of what you will and what you will not accept in a potential mate. And those standards are up to you when filtering the dating pool.

Well, Mairzy...if it's a Catholic you want, you might want to conduct the husband search in a country other than England. It's not a very Catholic place.

[homesick_american 1]

The new problem is that I told him we should NOT be going for this visa seeing as how both of us at heart do not want to enter a marriage. And he said that he was going to go to the interview anyway because he couldn't just miss "the opportunity." And I said, what is the point, it will be useless even if approved. We already HAVE our answer: we can't do this.

Ugh; I have a strong urge to kick this guy in the ### if I ever meet him. If you do not plan to marry HE CANNOT GET THE VISA. The opportunity evaporated when you dumped him. If he got the visa at this point it would be because one or both of you is lying.

So now it is up to me to withdraw the petition. Surely he must see that this is the proper solution. He said he needs to think about it and we need to talk about it more.

I'm going to be completely and utterly honest with you right now. You are acting like a doormat. There is NOTHING to discuss...nothing. He is manipulating you. You've broken up...the petition should be withdrawn. It is not the proper solution...it is the ONLY solution.

Thanks again to everyone for your advice and even the devil's advocacy because I certainly took everything into account to make sure I was not being completely narrow minded. It may be that he's an abuser, or just very immature, or just a very different personality, or what have you. What really matters is that he, if given a satisfactory alternative, would NOT want to marry me but take that alternative instead. And I told him point blank that I can not marry anyone right now. I have far too much to figure out.

I think you need to do some work on yourself. I'm getting the impression that you lack confidence, are very unsure of yourself, and that you have low self-esteem. People like your ex-fiance are experts at manipulating women like you. I would recommend seeing a therapist because you might not be able to see the next one for what he is until it's too late and you're stuck in an abusive relationship. Consider this relationship a giant red flag, and do some work on YOURSELF. YOU are the most important person in your life right now.

[CountryBoy 0]

Mairzy,

Will you be calling to cancel the petition then?

CB

[JoeMama 0]

Catholics are not "restricted" from marrying non-Catholics. The agreements to raise children according to the faith are accurate - but there's no prohibition.

Absolutely. My mother (a Catholic) married my dad (a Methodist) and nobody ever told her she'd burn in hell for it. She did raise my brother and I Catholic though; I never thought it was fair of her to punish us for her marrying outside the faith. ;) ;)

I didn't get threatened with hell or anything like that. It's simply my choice whom I marry, and I feel more comfortable marrying a baptized person according to my church. I can walk away from my church any time, but I choose not to. No one is forcing me to choose this, I do it because I know what I want in a husband, just as I also want a loving, loyal, fun and sweet person.

I personally don't have a problem marrying a non Catholic Christian, either. I've already discussed all of this with my Pastor as well. This is the sort of stuff you get out of the way when you first get to know one another. Your religion, your politics, your families, your backgrounds. You have a standard of what you will and what you will not accept in a potential mate. And those standards are up to you when filtering the dating pool.

Well, Mairzy...if it's a Catholic you want, you might want to conduct the husband search in a country other than England. It's not a very Catholic place.

I was raised Catholic. I've been fully confirmed. I stopped attending church all together because I had questions. Especially, with the Catholic church. There are just too many things that do not make any sense to me about Catholicism. I've asked questions and no one can actually give me a straight, logical answer. Each religion has there own purpose for whatever it is. Some good, some bad. The worst hypocrites I ever encountered were Jehovah Witnesses! I was married to one for 11 years. They owe nothing to anybody outside their congregation. And if you didn't want to be part of their "cult", you were beneath them. But then you see them knocking at your door trying to get you to convert? My in-laws were a fine example of thiefs, chemical dependants, liars, etc. Their arrogance and self-centeredness of that cult is quite astounding! Their primary focus is the end of the world. They believe after everyone on Earth has died, they will be the only one resurrected to populated the Earth again. There's no Heaven and there's no Hell. I asked my ex-wife a long time ago why they would rather die than ever receive a blood transfusion. Her explanation is because you will take on the other person's personality if you receive their blood. Go figure that one!

[Nagishkaw 510]

I wonder if they would protest a blood transfusion or psychoanalysis for their imaginary playmates, as well .

[Uzume 0]

In every situation there are two sides of a story; I have heard your side. Could you convince him to create an account on VJ and tell his side?

The only reason I ask this is before making any judgment on an individuals actions, I think it is best to know both sides.

It sounds like the relationship is rocky at best. In my honest opinion, anytime you get people from different cultures together their entire life experiences will determine their reaction in any given situation. An American girls’ reaction to an action made by an English man can be completely misinterpreted, and so on. I have learned this to be true from personal experience.

Some of your statements I will comment on however ..

He wasn't baptized when you met, but you insist that he get baptized .. Condition of engagement

He says he doesn't want to talk, says that you are clingy, etc. yet you still insist that he talk .. maybe HE needs time to think about things but you break up with him over it

"We're still talking, but in the first phone conversation I laid it all on the line." .. sound familiar? conditions again ..

"That is the way someone treats you who WANTS to you stay with them?" .. sounds like your decision to end the relationship may be the best thing for him since he obviously cannot live up to your expectations ..

"He doesn't get it. I figured when you are crazy about someone, you want to talk to them." .. perhaps he doesn't get YOUR definition of love.

"I keep trying to forgive and get past it all but I don't know if in this case I should be forgiving it." .. do you honestly think he is the only one at fault?

"The interview date is April 23. He wants to go, anyway." .. NO WAY

"I told him on the phone that last year he broke my heart so bad I actually got depressed and wanted to kill myself ." .. WOW, Run man Run.

"I had always offered to move to England, too. He interestingly enough never took me up on that." .. is that an accusatory tone, getting married just to be in the US perhaps.

"Oh My God if I marry him, I may be dooming myself." .. you may be dooming two people ..

I know that you will hate me for this post, but I felt the need to reply honestly.

I would really like to read his side of the story, even though at this point he will probably feel publicly humiliated enough to avoid the people on this forum like the plague.

CB

CB crtainly DOES have a valid point and it's common courtesy if nothing else to listen to alternate viewpoints. Balance and open mindedness are the key to effective communication.

My main concern regarding this situation, however, regardless of either partner's perceived shortcomings remains that I can see no honest reason why a man would say such awful thyings to someone they continue to claim love for and then suggest no contact at all until the visa arrives and they begin married life together.

Something smells fishy... and I'm not talking about the contents of Baldrick's apple crumble!

JD

P.S Apologies for Blackadder quote, sometimes they just happen!

[Uzume 0]

There's an awfully lot of talking going on here. Loads of places to read between the lines.

I've read your posts here before, Mairzy. You seem like an extremely high-strung kind of gal. Perhaps I'm wrong and it's just the 'intensity' of this relationship that has you wired up. All we can do here is sit and read, you know.

From what you've written, I really can't see what you and your fiance have in common. You're committed to a religion - he isn't. He likes to drink - you don't. You're a talker - he isn't. What drew you to him in the first place?

Maybe this?

Remember, all we can do is sit here and read.

He has accused me of wanting to marry him "just to be married" and he has accused me of "using him" to "have kids."

Rebecca, you're correct, I am very high-strung. I don't try to hide that from him. I talked to him this evening and actually after reading all of the responses and taking them all very seriously, I discussed a few things with him that really bothered me. He stayed calm and listened, and it is strange but we had something of a breakthrough in that I told him I don't want marriage right now with him or anyone as I need time. And he admitted that he also feels a bit fearful of marriage and well, would rather we "live together." That's not going to happen, but I was interested to hear about his feelings. He is younger than I am, and I tried to give him a break for that as well as for being English (*smile*) but you know, Rebecca you hit the nail on the head: we just don't have enough in common. We are two very different personalities. His is a more choleric and mine is melancholic and I get along much better with typical phlegmatics. It may be that I simply do NOT understand him and vice versa.

The new problem is that I told him we should NOT be going for this visa seeing as how both of us at heart do not want to enter a marriage. And he said that he was going to go to the interview anyway because he couldn't just miss "the opportunity." And I said, what is the point, it will be useless even if approved. We already HAVE our answer: we can't do this.

It was a relief to hear that he really didn't want to marry me (he just thought it was the only way to get to spend time with me. Looking back, wow that is CRAZY. You don't marry in order to DATE.) and maybe, just maybe this answers some of the questions that have come up. Maybe he has balked at being with me online, at communicating etc. because he didn't want a marriage at all. Maybe it really is a VISA he wants, as you've said. But he swore up and down that he loves me and that the visa isn't the case. But his insistence on going to that interview DESPITE both of us saying we don't want to -- and I said I CAN'T -- enter into a marriage strikes me as just wrong in every way.

I said we need to take this entire marriage stuff out of the picture and if we still want to know each other, we need to spend normal time together as friends. And he said there's no way to do that, and I said there are work and study visas, visits and so on. But you know, I am in such a place right now that I'm not invested in him the way I was.

So now it is up to me to withdraw the petition. Surely he must see that this is the proper solution. He said he needs to think about it and we need to talk about it more.

Thanks again to everyone for your advice and even the devil's advocacy because I certainly took everything into account to make sure I was not being completely narrow minded. It may be that he's an abuser, or just very immature, or just a very different personality, or what have you. What really matters is that he, if given a satisfactory alternative, would NOT want to marry me but take that alternative instead. And I told him point blank that I can not marry anyone right now. I have far too much to figure out.

Hi again, posted last message without reading this one - don't know how I missed it!!

Anyway, it sounds like you are sorting things out, excellent, perhaps you can both be friends now that the pressure has lifted.

Good luck and I hope all goes well for you both in the future.

JD

[Ron/Sharon 0]

Just turning things around for a bit and get away from Catholicism versus Other .

Not knowing what your decission will be, work it out or give it up there is one thing that you may want to concider and that is the I-134 Affidavit of Support form.

Which states as follows: That this affidavit is made by me for the purpose of assuring the U.S. Government that the person(s) named initem (3) will not become a public charge in the United States.

That I am willing and able to receive, maintain and support the person(s) named in item 3. That I am ready and willing todeposit a bond, if necessary, to guarantee that such person(s) will not become a public charge during his or her stay in theUnited States, or to guarantee that the above named person(s) will maintain his or her nonimmigrant status, if admitted temporarilyand will depart prior to the expiration of his or her authorized stay in the United States.

That I understand this affidavit will be binding upon me for a period of three (3) years after entry of the person(s) named initem (3) and that the information and documentation provided by me may be made available to the Secretary of Health and HumanServices and the Secretary of Agriculture, who may make it available to a public assistance agency

If you do marry and bring this person (your fiance) to the states whether or not they remain with you, you are their meal ticket for the next "3 years". I believe the only way out of this contract with the government would be hi passing or returning to Great Britian.

I only brought this up since the relationship is not rock solid. The decission is your alone, you are well supported here.

Ron