GOP Rep. Steve Scalise shot at congressional baseball practice in Virginia [merged threads]

[Teddy B 17,252]

7 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Actually when we were nearing the end of our sessions that the VA would pay for she flat out said that "what I was doing is great and actually helps speed up progress, going to the gym is one of the best stress relievers there is":

The benefits of regular exercise are numerous. I'm glad it's working well for you.

[8bit_Theatre 64]

42 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

For gun owners here: what requirements do you need to obtain a firearm in your state besides background checks and paperwork? Mandatory training, classes, and hours? Yearly mandatory safety certification classes? Initial mental health screening with a professional (not just checking no in boxes)? Drug and alcohol screening? Social media screening? How about for CC? I'm aware some do have requirements, but a lot do not.

 

This individual had prior run-ins with the law including resisting arrest, drunken driving, he lost his job and was barred from being a government contractor for misconduct, one foster child was removed from the couple, and DV just to name a few of the charges. A DV supposedly prevents one from owning a gun, however prosecutors elected to not pursue the case (as what happens so many times it isn't funny). Details of the case were pretty horrible I might add, and concluded with him popping off a shot at someone, choking, ripping hair, and using a knife. And yet we have a history in this country where people just 'slip through the cracks' and all manner of persons can obtain a gun, regardless of if they were a criminal, were involved in a DV, child, or animal abuse case, or had a history of mental illness. Even terrorists have been able to obtain a firearm. Non-citizens can aswell.

 

Requirements beyond a background check in my state include mandatory safety exams, mandatory safe handling exam. CC's are generally not given out to the public in about 1/2 the counties...in order to get one you must have political connections. They do require live fire training. Every ammunition purchase must be face to face with a background check. Roughly 80% of handguns on the market are illegal to sell. "Assault Weapons" are banned. Oh and you can guess my state by this fact: we had a shooting that was deadlier than the virginia shooting on the exact same day.

[8bit_Theatre 64]

25 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Driving a vehicle requires for the most part and depending on the state - extensive training, classes, tests etc. Repeat unsafe pattern of behavior can result in the loss of licenses. I believe there to be a lot of people on the road that shouldn't be driving. I'd be fine with a yearly drug and alcohol test, even road rage screening if possible.

 

As with intelligence and terrorism cases where everybody seems to know something but does nothing - I like proactive reaction, rather than reactive.

 

I look at a car and a gun as a tool. Put into the wrong hands that tool, without training and proper screening - and people wind up dead. 

 

The link referenced shows these individuals had their guns legally even with convictions. There is no evidence that he obtained his weapons illegally either.

I hope more attention is drawn to the Werther effect. You can see it with mass shootings over the last decade and you are starting to see it with mass car attacks as well. 5 years ago car attacks were rare, but as they begin to enter the public conscience they are becoming less rare.

[8bit_Theatre 64]

47 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

A car is not a machine that is built for the purpose to kill. The car argument is so silly. I'm not going down this road.

Regardless of design intent, its about end results.

[8bit_Theatre 64]

1 hour ago, Teddy B said:

Periodic mental health checks for all gun owners. Access to guns is far too easy in this country, we need nationwide laws, not state by state.

Most of Europe doesn't even have this.

 

Off the top of my head there is the case of Germany that requires an initial check but only for those under 25.

[8bit_Theatre 64]

On 6/15/2017 at 7:33 AM, Teddy B said:

 I would like to see a semi-auto ban, but that will never happen.

I don't see that changing much.

 

In this case with the SKS he probably reloaded once given the time frame by way of a stripper clip (most SKS have fixed magazines), so he had 20 rounds roughly (of the 60 shots most probably came from the security detail). If there was a semi auto ban, things would go in one of two directions. 

 

1. Leveractions would come back into vogue and can be used almost as quickly (the 1860 Henry was in many respects the assault rifle of its day with a 16 round capacity).

 

2. People would modify their existing and future firearms by removing the gas block and tube (this is how you can have an AR15 in the UK for instance using centerfire ammunition). That gas system could easily be reconnected at will.

Edited June 16, 2017 by 8bit_Theatre

[Teddy B 17,252]

59 minutes ago, 8bit_Theatre said:

Regardless of design intent, its about end results.

Okay then, let's look at the end results. How many people are murdered each year in the US by a motor vehicle compared to the 9K or so that are murdered by guns? I'll help you, there about 300 vehicular homicides in the US every year.

 

57 minutes ago, 8bit_Theatre said:

Most of Europe doesn't even have this.

 

Off the top of my head there is the case of Germany that requires an initial check but only for those under 25.

Europe doesn't have so why should we? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but that's not really a strong argument.

 

50 minutes ago, 8bit_Theatre said:

I don't see that changing much.

 

In this case with the SKS he probably reloaded once given the time frame by way of a stripper clip (most SKS have fixed magazines), so he had 20 rounds roughly (of the 60 shots most probably came from the security detail). If there was a semi auto ban, things would go in one of two directions. 

 

1. Leveractions would come back into vogue and can be used almost as quickly (the 1860 Henry was in many respects the assault rifle of its day with a 16 round capacity).

 

2. People would modify their existing and future firearms by removing the gas block and tube (this is how you can have an AR15 in the UK for instance using centerfire ammunition). That gas system could easily be reconnected at will.

There are always excuses of why not to do things and what will be done to counteract new laws, but the bottom line is that most people aren't really that good with guns. Sure there will be a small amount of people who will circumvent the laws, there always is, but that's not an excuse not to have them.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Teddy B

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 hour ago, Teddy B said:

A car is not a machine that is built for the purpose to kill. The car argument is so silly. I'm not going down this road.

me either but if I did it would be the middle of the road 

[Teddy B 17,252]

7 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

me either but if I did it would be the middle of the road 

[8bit_Theatre 64]

23 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

Okay then, let's look at the end results. How many people are murdered each year in the US by a motor vehicle compared to the 9K or so that are murdered by guns? I'll help you, there about 300 vehicular homicides in the US every year.

300 vehicular deaths a year? Okay, thats about the same from semiauto rifles as discussed in this thread.

23 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

Europe doesn't have so why should we? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but that's not really a strong argument.

Those who advocate for gun control look to Europe. Arguably its their playbook, so it is relevant. Moreover, if one assumes they are on the cutting edge of gun laws and yet they do not pursue this, it should cause one to pause and ask why.

 

23 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

 

There are always excuses of why not to do things and what will be done to counteract new laws, but the bottom line is that most people aren't really that good with guns. Sure there will be a small amount of people who will circumvent the laws, there always is, but that's not an excuse not to have them.

I strongly disagree. When California banned Assault Weapons, the vast majority of gunowners (new and old) took advantage of loopholes and continued to purchase firearms that the state tried to banned. Millions have since been purchased.

[Teddy B 17,252]

3 minutes ago, 8bit_Theatre said:

300 vehicular deaths a year? Okay, thats about the same from semiauto rifles as discussed in this thread.

 

Those who advocate for gun control look to Europe. Arguably its their playbook, so it is relevant. Moreover, if one assumes they are on the cutting edge of gun laws and yet they do not pursue this, it should cause one to pause and ask why.

 

I strongly disagree. When California banned Assault Weapons, the vast majority of gunowners (new and old) took advantage of loopholes and continued to purchase firearms that the state tried to banned. Millions have since been purchased.

Let's not change the debate here, okay? The original statements were about all cars and all guns, not just semi autos. And when I said I supported a ban on semi-autos, I meant ALL semi-autos including hand guns. Also, the amount of vehicular homicides dwarf in comparison when you figure in the amount of miles driven per year compared to the amount of rounds fired by guns. There really is no comparison to be made between guns and vehicles, no matter how you slice it guns are responsible for many more homicides.

 

Again, I don't buy into the "if Europe doesn't have it, then why should we argument". Who cares what any other country has for gun laws, at least that's what the pro gun posters on VJ always say when the US is compared to other countries that have stricter gun control. Also, when a large amount of your mass shootings are committed by mentally unstable people, that warrants a long hard look at mental health testing for all gun owners.

 

No state gun ban is ever going to work. Gun laws need to be the same nationwide or they won't be effective.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

12 hours ago, iwannaplay54 said:

How did that feel?  Lay off of peaceful, legal, responsible gun owners and focus on the problem (individual) next time.

I didn't feel anything. You quoting me and your answer aren't in sync. I was not talking about gun ownership, did not attack gun owners and

was talking about owning your own hate that you complain the celebrities are spewing. Your posting style is that of your alter ego's, that was easy

to figure out in 5 seconds.
 

[8bit_Theatre 64]

1 minute ago, Teddy B said:

Let's not change the debate here, okay? The original statements were about all cars and all guns, not just semi autos. And when I said I supported a ban on semi-autos, I meant ALL semi-autos including hand guns. Also, the amount of vehicular homicides dwarf in comparison when you figure in the amount of miles driven per year compared to the amount of rounds fired by guns. There really is no comparison to be made between guns and vehicles, no matter how you slice it guns are responsible for many more homicides.

I'm framing the debate around a particular class of weapon that comes up in shootings like these. Are handguns used in the majority of homicides, sure but not under these circumstances. Likewise, if you look at the last year or so in other nations, autos are becoming the choice for mass attacks with no less devastation. (London, Stockholm, Paris etc). I think you are going to see a steady increase in such attacks now that they are in the public conscience...in a similar manner as mass shooting from a decade ago. 

1 minute ago, Teddy B said:

 

Again, I don't buy into the "if Europe doesn't have it, then why should we argument". Who cares what any other country has for gun laws, at least that's what the pro gun posters on VJ always say when the US is compared to other countries that have stricter gun control. Also, when a large amount of your mass shootings are committed by mentally unstable people, that warrants a long hard look at mental health testing for all gun owners.

You misunderstand my point. I'm asking why Europe hasn't even when they have all of these other laws. The answer is that its both invasive, subjective and would be prone to abuse.

1 minute ago, Teddy B said:

 

No state gun ban is ever going to work. Gun laws need to be the same nationwide or they won't be effective.

You misunderstand. Its not that Californians were circumnavigating the law illegally by purchasing out of state. No, they adapted to the laws enmass and purchased them legally within the state which goes back to the point I am making about about ingenuity getting around laws like a semiauto ban for instance.

[OriZ 3,157]

8 hours ago, yuna628 said:

For gun owners here: what requirements do you need to obtain a firearm in your state besides background checks and paperwork? Mandatory training, classes, and hours? Yearly mandatory safety certification classes? Initial mental health screening with a professional (not just checking no in boxes)? Drug and alcohol screening? Social media screening? How about for CC? I'm aware some do have requirements, but a lot do not.

 

Over here absolutely nothing. Nada. Nil. Zilch.

 

8 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Driving a vehicle requires for the most part and depending on the state - extensive training, classes, tests etc. Repeat unsafe pattern of behavior can result in the loss of licenses. I believe there to be a lot of people on the road that shouldn't be driving. I'd be fine with a yearly drug and alcohol test, even road rage screening if possible.

 

As with intelligence and terrorism cases where everybody seems to know something but does nothing - I like proactive reaction, rather than reactive.

 

I look at a car and a gun as a tool. Put into the wrong hands that tool, without training and proper screening - and people wind up dead. 

 

The link referenced shows these individuals had their guns legally even with convictions. There is no evidence that he obtained his weapons illegally either.

I don't think most drivers go through extensive enough training personally. I'd like it better if it was like many other places where you had to be taught by a professional instructor rather than any adult being able to teach you. Like 90% of the people I see out there daily are clueless. Just clueless. I am curious however how would you screen someone for road rage? 

Edited June 17, 2017 by OriZ

[Boiler 46,272]

7 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Over here absolutely nothing. Nada. Nil. Zilch.

 

I don't think most drivers go through extensive enough training personally. I'd like it better if it was like many other places where you had to be taught by a professional instructor rather than any adult being able to teach you. Like 90% of the people I see out there daily are clueless. Just clueless. I am curious however how would you screen someone for road rage? 

US drivers test is generally considered a joke, you have to try really hard to fail.

 

CC Permit class I did was much more intensive.