Man Attacks Train Passengers in Oregon for Protecting Teenagers

[yuna628 9,676]

1 minute ago, IAMX said:

A non Islamic person committing a crime absolves Islamic people of their problems with terrorism, lack of integration, and acquiescence toward extremism by non extremists? lol. Speaking of desperation for a narrative.. I've got a mirror for you. 

Does a white man who wraps himself in pro-Nazi regalia and Trump flags while attending pro-Trump rallies, who loves the actions of home-grown terrorist murderers, and then later viciously murders two people after he attacks two teenagers for their race and religion absolve white people or Trump supporters of their problems with hatred, lack of empathy, and ego? Just asking if your analysis of something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand works both ways, or if it's only to suit your narrative at the moment. While you're busy accusing people of desperation, be aware people may think similar things of your narrative. You're not safe from the mirror you're offering.

 

Personally I'd like to stick to the topic. Hatred breeds hatred, what happened in Oregon is a result of that hatred run amuck. This man is every much a terrorist as those who strap bombs to their chests.

[IAMX 3,055]

15 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Does a white man who wraps himself in pro-Nazi regalia and Trump flags while attending pro-Trump rallies, who loves the actions of home-grown terrorist murderers, and then later viciously murders two people after he attacks two teenagers for their race and religion absolve white people or Trump supporters of their problems with hatred, lack of empathy, and ego? Just asking if your analysis of something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand works both ways, or if it's only to suit your narrative at the moment. While you're busy accusing people of desperation, be aware people may think similar things of your narrative. You're not safe from the mirror you're offering.

 

Personally I'd like to stick to the topic. Hatred breeds hatred, what happened in Oregon is a result of that hatred run amuck. This man is every much a terrorist as those who strap bombs to their chests.

If you're going to whine about the direction the topic goes at least complain to the person who took it in this direction. Thanks. 

 

And since you also engaged in this discussion you claim is off topic, I will respond to it. Does this matter have a single thing to do with Nazis and Trump? Is there a widespread issue with Nazis committing terrorism? Is there an issue with Trump supporters committing terrorism? No? Well then, it was a nice attempt to put completely opposite and unequal things on par with one another because you don't like criticism of a barbaric culture that derives from a barbaric religion that has severe issues with violent extremism and permissive behavior by non extremists. I advocate you put down the PC pipe and join us in the real world. The only way this helps get solved is if people on the left quit playing this dangerously stupid and contrived game of absolving Islamic culture of its current incompatibility with western culture, exactly like the person who took the topic in this direction did. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by IAMX

[yuna628 9,676]

20 minutes ago, IAMX said:

If you're going to whine about the direction the topic goes at least complain to the person who took it in this direction. Thanks. 

 

And since you also engaged in this discussion you claim is off topic, I will respond to it. Does this matter have a single thing to do with Nazis and Trump? Is there a widespread issue with Nazis committing terrorism? Is there an issue with Trump supporters committing terrorism? No? Well then, it was a nice attempt to put completely opposite and unequal things on par with one another because you don't like criticism of a barbaric culture that derives from a barbaric religion that has severe issues with violent extremism and permissive behavior by non extremists. I advocate you put down the PC pipe and join us in the real world. The only way this helps get solved is if people on the left quit playing this dangerously stupid and contrived game of absolving Islamic culture of its current incompatibility with western culture. 

The person you responded to had a valid point, about the sensationalism of the media you love to complain about on a daily basis.

 

And yes there is an issue with Nazis and those who claim to support Trump behaving in barbaric, un-American, and hateful manner just as there is an issue with those who claim to love Islam but have nothing to do with Islam in their barbaric actions. Because you don't want to acknowledge it due to your narrative on the subject, does not mean it does not exist (oh see, that's exactly what you'd say about others regarding Islam isn't it?). Bad apples spoil the bunch is the adage. There is nothing to suggest that Islam is any more barbaric than any religion currently practiced on this earth right now, and certainly all of it's tenants share a root in anything we consider remotely Judeo-Christian to this day. Perhaps you are an atheist so you may then very well consider any religion barbaric and permissive. I wouldn't know, but from a theological standpoint there is little different between some sects and cults of those who claim to be Islamic in nature than from Christianity in the middle ages, or indeed many modern types of Christian cults today. Mainstream Christianity grew a great deal further in it's ability to adapt - but still maintains some attitudes contrary to a civil and secular society in their desire to remake the entire nation into a theocratic worldview. Your attitude is that no one is in the 'real world' but you and those that think like you. I'm sorry to tell you but that's not how the 'real world' works. That's your concept of what the real world is.  And while you're busy pointing fingers at others dismissively, fingers will be pointed back at you. Your ideology is no more superior to anyone else's. And if we followed one ideology - or even your ideology in America, it ceases to be America. What's a dangerous and contrived game is allowing hate to rule your heart no matter what type of person you are, your race, or religion. That's the root. That's what causes attacks by domestic and foreign terrorists. Hatred is incompatible with society. Try solving that particular emotion and you'll find things significantly easier.

Edited May 28, 2017 by yuna628

[IAMX 3,055]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

The person you responded to had a valid point, about the sensationalism of the media you love to complain about on a daily basis.

 

And yes there is an issue with Nazis and those who claim to support Trump behaving in barbaric, un-American, and hateful manner just as there is an issue with those who claim to love Islam but have nothing to do with Islam in their barbaric actions. Because you don't want to acknowledge it due to your narrative on the subject, does not mean it does not exist (oh see, that's exactly what you'd say about others regarding Islam isn't it?). Bad apples spoil the bunch is the adage. There is nothing to suggest that Islam is any more barbaric than any religion currently practiced on this earth right now, and certainly all of it's tenants share a root in anything we consider remotely Judeo-Christian to this day. Perhaps you are an atheist so you may then very well consider any religion barbaric and permissive. I wouldn't know, but from a theological standpoint there is little different between some sects and cults of those who claim to be Islamic in nature than from Christianity in the middle ages, or indeed many modern types of Christian cults today. Mainstream Christianity grew a great deal further in it's ability to adapt - but still maintains some attitudes contrary to a civil and secular society in their desire to remake the entire nation into a theocratic worldview. Your attitude is that no one is in the 'real world' but you and those that think like you. I'm sorry to tell you but that's not how the 'real world' works. That's your concept of what the real world is.  And while you're busy pointing fingers at others dismissively, fingers will be pointed back at you. Your ideology is no more superior to anyone else's. And if we followed one ideology - or even your ideology in America, it ceases to be America. What's a dangerous and contrived game is allowing hate to rule your heart no matter what type of person you are, your race, or religion. That's the root. That's what causes attacks by domestic and foreign terrorists. Hatred is incompatible with society. Try solving that particular emotion and you'll find things significantly easier.

Whether that posters point was valid was 100% irrelevant to your last post, you were whining about going off-topic yet ignoring it was them who took the topic in that direction. If you're not going to criticize them, why would I be bothered to take your complaint seriously?

 

I'm an agnostic yes, so I'm not a fan of any religion -- the question of a creator of everything for me is left open, even with religions being bunk. However, I'm not naive enough to think all religions are equal in respect to how their people behave, even if they're equal in terms of being a farce.

 

A simple reason why I mention the real world is that you live in the United States.. the issue with Nazism, white supremacy movements like the KKK, etc, are all but wiped out. The current KKK is a great analogy of what remains of white supremacy, a bunch of old white losers relegated to corners of the internet like Stormfront where they have little impact on society today. Learning from history is good, which is why we don't forget what white Christian males perpetuated upon people in early US history. However, the constant mention of it today by the left is nothing short of stupidity. It's very clear that while a struggle was needed for Christianity in particular to get on board a society that is somewhat progressive, they have indeed evolved greatly.. which is more than I can say for the Muslim religion.

 

The issue in western civilization today with religions is the Muslim religion, not only that over 1/5 of Muslims condone extremism, but the vast majority are permissive to it by their actions. This is not acceptable at all. It would not be accepted of Christianity, it should not be accepted of any other religion or it's culture.

 

As the poster you give a comedic excuse for points out in his defection from the topic (which you chastise me for, unsurprisingly), an issue with an idiot who has a knife absolves Muslims from their issues dealing with western civilization. This is clearly someone who has trouble with reality and wishes to make things up in their own head to justify nonsensical political positions. I don't mean of the 50+ Muslim countries, the fact that they're barbaric by default.. they can ruin the crapholes they live in all they like, clearly they can't even tolerate other sects of their own religion without killing them. However, I don't want them to ruin this part of the world. So the choice is simple.. adopt western values when moving to western countries or sod off. And I'm incredibly disappointed Trump only moved to ban a few countries with terrorism associations, I would have liked for him to ban every country in MENA besides Israel from travelling to the US until more strict vetting measures could be put in place. If standing up to Islam twinges the left's PC radar, that's perfectly okay with me.. their approval of my views is 100% unnecessary. When they can grow up and stop crying like babies about imaginary conspiracies while ignoring real world issues they might earn a little of my respect.

Edited May 28, 2017 by IAMX

[yuna628 9,676]

4 hours ago, IAMX said:

Whether that posters point was valid was 100% irrelevant to your last post, you were whining about going off-topic yet ignoring it was them who took the topic in that direction. If you're not going to criticize them, why would I be bothered to take your complaint seriously?

 

I'm an agnostic yes, so I'm not a fan of any religion -- the question of a creator of everything for me is left open, even with religions being bunk. However, I'm not naive enough to think all religions are equal in respect to how their people behave, even if they're equal in terms of being a farce.

 

A simple reason why I mention the real world is that you live in the United States.. the issue with Nazism, white supremacy movements like the KKK, etc, are all but wiped out. The current KKK is a great analogy of what remains of white supremacy, a bunch of old white losers relegated to corners of the internet like Stormfront where they have little impact on society today. Learning from history is good, which is why we don't forget what white Christian males perpetuated upon people in early US history. However, the constant mention of it today by the left is nothing short of stupidity. It's very clear that while a struggle was needed for Christianity in particular to get on board a society that is somewhat progressive, they have indeed evolved greatly.. which is more than I can say for the Muslim religion.

 

The issue in western civilization today with religions is the Muslim religion, not only that over 1/5 of Muslims condone extremism, but the vast majority are permissive to it by their actions. This is not acceptable at all. It would not be accepted of Christianity, it should not be accepted of any other religion or it's culture.

 

As the poster you give a comedic excuse for points out in his defection from the topic (which you chastise me for, unsurprisingly), an issue with an idiot who has a knife absolves Muslims from their issues dealing with western civilization. This is clearly someone who has trouble with reality and wishes to make things up in their own head to justify nonsensical political positions. I don't mean of the 50+ Muslim countries, the fact that they're barbaric by default.. they can ruin the crapholes they live in all they like, clearly they can't even tolerate other sects of their own religion without killing them. However, I don't want them to ruin this part of the world. So the choice is simple.. adopt western values when moving to western countries or sod off. And I'm incredibly disappointed Trump only moved to ban a few countries with terrorism associations, I would have liked for him to ban every country in MENA besides Israel from travelling to the US until more strict vetting measures could be put in place. If standing up to Islam twinges the left's PC radar, that's perfectly okay with me.. their approval of my views is 100% unnecessary. When they can grow up and stop crying like babies about imaginary conspiracies while ignoring real world issues they might earn a little of my respect.

The poster's post was relevant in the discussion in the fact that once again a domestic terrorist attacked Americans but it is not covered on the news as much as foreign acts of terrorism. The poster was pondering why that was, which is a pretty decent question to ask, regardless of if you take such a question seriously or not. I'm not too sure exactly why you think I should care that you take my thoughts seriously and that you need to reiterate this. Again if you don't afford anyone the respect that your opinion is your opinion and is not some ultimate truth because we all have differing opinions, it's doubtful respect will be given in kind. Nor do I think is anyone here clamoring for it, because they don't need it. This is a forum on the internet, not a life-changing world policy symposium. No one is a superior being. You don't have to approve of anyone's views (no one here is requesting that), and they don't need to approve of yours.

,

Issues with such movements are not wiped out, and are resurging across the globe for some time. It is no longer just a bunch of old losers scurrying in the dark on the internet. To state they have little impact on society is to a degree, a type of blindness as to the effect they truly have, and is inherently dismissive and passive as the persons you claim overlook or shrug off the bad apples among their ranks. Evolution of a religion to adapt is not a quick process. To a degree Christianity has a considerable head start for many reasons that are too lengthy to mention, and yet finds itself stuck on quite a few issues (the same pretty much the big three are all stuck on), which has resulted in more people being non-religious and secular and the holdouts more fundamentalist.

 

If you believe that all religions are not inherently the same or share a similar root, it is clear you have not spent time studying their origins. There is common ground in virtually all. It all comes down to adapting. You can nearly think of religion as a tool, but it all depends on whom wields the tool. A hateful person uses their ideas on a religion as a tool for evil, while others use it for good or to live their lives in peace not bothering anyone. Hate plays the basest psychological failings, and makes a great recruitment propaganda machine. Many 'accepted facts' in major branches of Christianity today are completely wrong, and wrong because someone 'in charge' misread, mistranslated, or deliberately ordered it to be contrary to the original text. With each change of adaption and 'modernization', there will be counter groups and cultures using any method they can to keep it to an older more pure way, or those who attempt to gain followings and utilize more violent means of accomplishing their goal. A peaceful, law abiding Muslim can do no more than anyone else can. They can take the tactics like those brave persons who stood up to defend the train passengers, and be 'slashed' in the process if that's what you'd prefer. And they do. They are slaughtered every single day in their own countries. They are abused abroad. And when some of the community come forward to 'snitch' on their own, their pleas are ignored. That of course isn't good enough for you. As you've stated, they live in ''crapholes'' (a sentiment you'd find from many conservative posters on this forum in disagreement about - they are simply different countries, and the overwhelming majority a good, proud, and lovely people even in the face of being abused by their governments) and you clearly imply you care very little about them or anyone that is a Muslim unless they look, talk, and think like you - something you'll never be satisfied about. What are 'western values' and how should we universally adhere to them? A Christian's idea of western values are going to be vastly different than a secularist, but they're probably going to be considerably closer to a Muslim's thoughts on the subject. You claim the attacker is merely an idiot with a knife (and inherently all terrorists are idiots) but negate the fact he wasn't just an idiot - he's an idiot that has a long history of aligning himself with Nazism, domestic terrorism, and wanting to achieve his goals through violence. In that, there is no difference between his hateful motivations of wanting to slash throats than there is with a bomber. But as the previous poster had pointed out, the media sensationalizes one action more than the other. The crime is just as disgusting and barbaric. His tool was a knife. I'm sure given some other tool as an outlet for his rage, he could have escalated things quite a bit. His predecessors he idolized certainly did.

Edited May 28, 2017 by yuna628

[IAMX 3,055]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

The poster's post was relevant in the discussion in the fact that once again a domestic terrorist attacked Americans but it is not covered on the news as much as foreign acts of terrorism. The poster was pondering why that was, which is a pretty decent question to ask, regardless of if you take such a question seriously or not. I'm not too sure exactly why you think I should care that you take my thoughts seriously and that you need to reiterate this. Again if you don't afford anyone the respect that your opinion is your opinion and is not some ultimate truth because we all have differing opinions, it's doubtful respect will be given in kind. Nor do I think is anyone here clamoring for it, because they don't need it. This is a forum on the internet, not a life-changing world policy symposium. No one is a superior being. You don't have to approve of anyone's views (no one here is requesting that), and they don't need to approve of yours.

,

Issues with such movements are not wiped out, and are resurging across the globe for some time. It is no longer just a bunch of old losers scurrying in the dark on the internet. To state they have little impact on society is to a degree, a type of blindness as to the effect they truly have, and is inherently dismissive and passive as the persons you claim overlook or shrug off the bad apples among their ranks. Evolution of a religion to adapt is not a quick process. To a degree Christianity has a considerable head start for many reasons that are too lengthy to mention, and yet finds itself stuck on quite a few issues (the same pretty much the big three are all stuck on), which has resulted in more people being non-religious and secular and the holdouts more fundamentalist.

 

If you believe that all religions are not inherently the same or share a similar root, it is clear you have not spent time studying their origins. There is common ground in virtually all. It all comes down to adapting. You can nearly think of religion as a tool, but it all depends on whom wields the tool. A hateful person uses their ideas on a religion as a tool for evil, while others use it for good or to live their lives in peace not bothering anyone. Hate plays the basest psychological failings, and makes a great recruitment propaganda machine. Many 'accepted facts' in major branches of Christianity today are completely wrong, and wrong because someone 'in charge' misread, mistranslated, or deliberately ordered it to be contrary to the original text. With each change of adaption and 'modernization', there will be counter groups and cultures using any method they can to keep it to an older more pure way, or those who attempt to gain followings and utilize more violent means of accomplishing their goal. A peaceful, law abiding Muslim can do no more than anyone else can. They can take the tactics like those brave persons who stood up to defend the train passengers, and be 'slashed' in the process if that's what you'd prefer. And they do. They are slaughtered every single day in their own countries. They are abused abroad. And when some of the community come forward to 'snitch' on their own, their pleas are ignored. That of course isn't good enough for you. As you've stated, they live in ''crapholes'' (a sentiment you'd find from many conservative posters on this forum in disagreement about - they are simply different countries, and the overwhelming majority a good, proud, and lovely people even in the face of being abused by their governments) and you clearly imply you care very little about them or anyone that is a Muslim unless they look, talk, and think like you - something you'll never be satisfied about. What are 'western values' and how should we universally adhere to them? A Christian's idea of western values are going to be vastly different than a secularist, but they're probably going to be considerably closer to a Muslim's thoughts on the subject. You claim the attacker is merely an idiot with a knife (and inherently all terrorists are idiots) but negate the fact he wasn't just an idiot - he's an idiot that has a long history of aligning himself with Nazism, domestic terrorism, and wanting to achieve his goals through violence. In that, there is no difference between his hateful motivations of wanting to slash throats than there is with a bomber. But as the previous poster had pointed out, the media sensationalizes one action more than the other. The crime is just as disgusting and barbaric. His tool was a knife. I'm sure given some other tool as an outlet for his rage, he could have escalated things quite a bit. His predecessors he idolized certainly did.

"Origins" of a religion are irrelevant in 2017, but I can see that's why you do your best to put religions on par. I guess if we compared the Christianity in much of central and southern Africa to MENA we might be talking about something on par, but there isn't an issue with sub saharan Christian Africans committing terrorist acts throughout western nations. Islam on the other hand has a serious amount of sympathizers within the Islamic community, and there needs to be less coddling mentality lest we go the route of the BBC video I cited where the reporter is resigned to terrorism being a normal thing. 

[TBoneTX 45,305]

Two noncontributory posts have been removed.

[CaliCat 3,957]

On 5/28/2017 at 10:36 AM, yuna628 said:

Does a white man who wraps himself in pro-Nazi regalia and Trump flags while attending pro-Trump rallies, who loves the actions of home-grown terrorist murderers, and then later viciously murders two people after he attacks two teenagers for their race and religion absolve white people or Trump supporters of their problems with hatred, lack of empathy, and ego? Just asking if your analysis of something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand works both ways, or if it's only to suit your narrative at the moment. While you're busy accusing people of desperation, be aware people may think similar things of your narrative. You're not safe from the mirror you're offering.

 

Personally I'd like to stick to the topic. Hatred breeds hatred, what happened in Oregon is a result of that hatred run amuck. This man is every much a terrorist as those who strap bombs to their chests.

 

This man is a terrorist in every aspect of the word. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

5 hours ago, CaliCat said:

 

This man is a terrorist in every aspect of the word. 

 Can't be Terrorism, the president said this was unacceptable behavior, same phrase we use for teenagers who bring the car back late  

 

[yuna628 9,676]

Recounting from witnesses and the last words from one of the victims..

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/05/max_heros_last_words_tell_ever.html

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

5 hours ago, CaliCat said:

 

This man is a terrorist in every aspect of the word. 

[CaliCat 3,957]

30 minutes ago, ccneat said:

 Can't be Terrorism, the president said this was unacceptable behavior, same phrase we use for teenagers who bring the car back late  

 

 

 

So, the so-called president equate a terrorist act with 'unacceptable behavior?"

 

Let' go ahead and make it 11 then!

 

 

[CaliCat 3,957]

6 minutes ago, ccneat said:

 

Yep. Every bit a piece of scum, as any other terrorist.

[OriZ 3,157]

 

The Political Spectrum is Looking More Like a Horseshoe

 

You may have heard that the Portland killer — who murdered two people and wounded a third after they tried to protect two Muslim women whom he was harassing — was a Trump supporter and a member of the alt-right.

Well…kinda, but not really.

You may also have heard that he was a Bernie Sanders supporter.

Again…kinda, but not really.

 

There’s no doubt about his extremism, though his ideology’s harder to pin down. I checked out his Facebook page so that you don’t have to: white supremacy, check; Islamophobia, check; rampant misogyny, check. He’s mad about gender fluidity, Muslims, removing Confederate monuments, fascism, anti-fascism, Nazis, libtards, feminists, taxation, the military-industrial complex, and Ronald Reagan. He calls women disgusting worthless cumbucket whores who kill their babies, and Timothy McVeigh a “TRUE PATRIOT.” He identifies as Libertarian, and wants a Sanders/Stein ticket for…uh, 2017? In one post he says he likes Trump but did not vote for him, though there’s also some anti-Trump sentiment scattered at intervals.

But he saves his most vicious and violent loathing for Hillary Clinton and her supporters:

 

[EDIT: In case you missed it — and apparently many of you did — here he is calling on Sanders/3rd party voters to kill Clinton/Trump supporters.]

 

This is the same kind of visceral hatred that’s been festering among hardcore Bernie supporters since the primaries. Before you #notallBerniebros me, I’m not talking about people who preferred Sanders in the primary but voted for Clinton in the general election; those are known as “rational people.” I’m talking about the people for whom it is an article of religious faith that the primary was rigged, and they are hellbent on vengeance. Corrupt corporate crony capitalism, they cry; to them, the DNC is a bigger threat than Trump, and the entire system is rotten and must be burned to the ground before the new socialist order can be ushered in, or something.

 

It sure sounds like the alt-right…but it’s coming from the left. They can be difficult to tell apart. Think of it as a horseshoe, where the ends are closer to each other than to the middle. Or, as one commenter put it, like a game of Pac-Man, where you move so far to the left that you end up on the right side of the screen. Or this metaphor that I stole from someone else:

Imagine political leanings as the face of a clock. When the hands are at 3 and 9 you have classic left and right. They have little in common politically. When the hands are both at 6 you have classic moderates from both sides. They have much in common and find it easy to talk. When the hands meet at 12, the extreme right and the extreme left meet. They also have a lot in common. So this guy being described as far left is just as easily described as far right.

Yep. And that right there is the problem. The extremes of the political spectrum seem to be overlapping, in the worst way possible. The very fact that we’re having the HE’S YOURS!! NO, HE’S YOURS!! argument is proof of this.

 

The toxic masculinity and misogyny of the alt-right is not news to anyone. But ever since Sanders’s defeat, a small but vociferous contingent has increasingly sounded more like Alex Jones than the voice of true progressivism. The indignity of losing to a woman, of having to listen to messages that were not tailored specifically and exclusively towards them, unleashed a wave of rage that drove many Clinton supporters underground, threatened to “hunt down” female journalists for “lying” about the primaries, and targeted the superdelegates with a relentless campaign of harassment.

 

To be absolutely clear: Sanders himself almost certainly did not imagine that his populism would spark an extremist fringe like this. Maybe he could have contained them earlier, but given the rage the alt-left feels at his “betrayal” in endorsing Clinton, probably not. Extremism of this sort typically breeds in a toxic swamp of ingrained misogyny, white supremacy and economic disenfranchisement. Sanders didn’t create any of these, but a lot of his message was coded (deliberately or otherwise) in a way that reinforced the deep-seated conviction that white working-class men are the nation’s top priority. And that message tapped into something that was apparently lurking just below the surface, ready to explode.

The Portland killer (you can see his name in the screenshot but I’m not going to use it) took his thwarted sense of entitlement and paranoid fantasy of victimhood to a horrifying extreme. The Berniebro movement didn’t create his distorted and hateful ideology, but it sure provided a petri dish for it to thrive. If the correlation between alt-right white supremacy and theCharleston church shooter is very clear, these murders should be viewed no differently. Hippy-dippy Portland, it turns out, is also a hotbed of white male supremacy, and being surrounded by frothing fanatics who share your delusions only makes it more likely that, sooner or later, something will snap.

 

Like their alt-right counterparts, there is nothing, literally nothing this group will not believe about Clinton, no matter how fantastical: Wikileaks, Pizzagate, murdering Seth Rich and Vince Foster, using her foundation as a front for the mafia, even being an actual literal witch and/or demon, for ’s sake. It’s every bit as virulent as the Jade Helm, Obama-is-building-a-secret-Muslim-army tinfoil hat bullshit. The media has been quick to report how Clinton’s narrow loss has emboldened racism, misogyny and Islamophobia by the far right, but I’ve yet to see any in-depth reporting on the rising extremism on the left. Usually it gets glossed over as simply Democratic party “infighting.” It is not. It’s something far more sinister — and now, deadly.

 

Where the did this come from? It wasn’t there in 2008, or even in 2000 (the Nader people were obnoxious but, on a personal level, largely benign). The rise of social media has surely played a role — it’s easier for them to find each other now, and reinforce each other’s worldviews. And of course, there were those Russian bots who specifically targeted Sanders supporters in swing states with false news stories about Clinton, and who are apparently still at work. Take a look at who’s pushing the Seth Rich murder conspiracy that even Fox News was forced to walk back, but which the alt-left still continues to retweet:

 

By the way, the alt-left also refuses to give any credence whatsoever to the Russian interference in the 2016 election, 17 U.S. intelligence agencies be damned; it’s all a pathetic liberal fantasy. If that sounds like Republican logic, well, that’s because it is. They’ve has more than a little help from the GOP, who wanted Sanders as the nominee because he’d be easier (and less expensive) to crush. The Young Turks, an online progressive “news” network that has essentially turned into The Bernie Channel, is Republican-funded. Our wacko splinter faction is a useful wedge for the GOP, who ought to know better than anyone the dangers of letting your lunatic fringe into the big tent.

 

For decades the far right lurked in the shadows, stockpiling weapons and dreaming of overthrowing the gubmint, and now they literally occupy the highest offices in the land. Steve Bannon’s mission is nothing less than the dismantling of our democratic system and institutions; a similar goal has been expressed to me a number of times by gleeful Bernouts. If we give them any influence or control over our party, where will it lead?

Extremism of any sort is the enemy of progress. Be the radical center.

It may not be fair to lay this monster at Sanders’s door. But he helped birth it, however unwittingly, by courting Independents and Libertarians — and he needs to take an active role in suppressing it. We can’t afford to lose more Ricky Bests, Taliesin Namkai-Meches, or Micah David-Cole Fletchers. We need them now more than we ever have before.

 

https://medium.com/@valrendel_88615/why-it-matters-that-the-portland-killer-was-a-far-left-extremist-11d001382139

 

The plot thickens...

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

13 minutes ago, OriZ said:

 

The Political Spectrum is Looking More Like a Horseshoe

 

You may have heard that the Portland killer — who murdered two people and wounded a third after they tried to protect two Muslim women whom he was harassing — was a Trump supporter and a member of the alt-right.

Well…kinda, but not really.

You may also have heard that he was a Bernie Sanders supporter.

Again…kinda, but not really.

 

There’s no doubt about his extremism, though his ideology’s harder to pin down. I checked out his Facebook page so that you don’t have to: white supremacy, check; Islamophobia, check; rampant misogyny, check. He’s mad about gender fluidity, Muslims, removing Confederate monuments, fascism, anti-fascism, Nazis, libtards, feminists, taxation, the military-industrial complex, and Ronald Reagan. He calls women disgusting worthless cumbucket whores who kill their babies, and Timothy McVeigh a “TRUE PATRIOT.” He identifies as Libertarian, and wants a Sanders/Stein ticket for…uh, 2017? In one post he says he likes Trump but did not vote for him, though there’s also some anti-Trump sentiment scattered at intervals.

But he saves his most vicious and violent loathing for Hillary Clinton and her supporters:

 

[EDIT: In case you missed it — and apparently many of you did — here he is calling on Sanders/3rd party voters to kill Clinton/Trump supporters.]

 

This is the same kind of visceral hatred that’s been festering among hardcore Bernie supporters since the primaries. Before you #notallBerniebros me, I’m not talking about people who preferred Sanders in the primary but voted for Clinton in the general election; those are known as “rational people.” I’m talking about the people for whom it is an article of religious faith that the primary was rigged, and they are hellbent on vengeance. Corrupt corporate crony capitalism, they cry; to them, the DNC is a bigger threat than Trump, and the entire system is rotten and must be burned to the ground before the new socialist order can be ushered in, or something.

 

It sure sounds like the alt-right…but it’s coming from the left. They can be difficult to tell apart. Think of it as a horseshoe, where the ends are closer to each other than to the middle. Or, as one commenter put it, like a game of Pac-Man, where you move so far to the left that you end up on the right side of the screen. Or this metaphor that I stole from someone else:

Imagine political leanings as the face of a clock. When the hands are at 3 and 9 you have classic left and right. They have little in common politically. When the hands are both at 6 you have classic moderates from both sides. They have much in common and find it easy to talk. When the hands meet at 12, the extreme right and the extreme left meet. They also have a lot in common. So this guy being described as far left is just as easily described as far right.

Yep. And that right there is the problem. The extremes of the political spectrum seem to be overlapping, in the worst way possible. The very fact that we’re having the HE’S YOURS!! NO, HE’S YOURS!! argument is proof of this.

 

The toxic masculinity and misogyny of the alt-right is not news to anyone. But ever since Sanders’s defeat, a small but vociferous contingent has increasingly sounded more like Alex Jones than the voice of true progressivism. The indignity of losing to a woman, of having to listen to messages that were not tailored specifically and exclusively towards them, unleashed a wave of rage that drove many Clinton supporters underground, threatened to “hunt down” female journalists for “lying” about the primaries, and targeted the superdelegates with a relentless campaign of harassment.

 

To be absolutely clear: Sanders himself almost certainly did not imagine that his populism would spark an extremist fringe like this. Maybe he could have contained them earlier, but given the rage the alt-left feels at his “betrayal” in endorsing Clinton, probably not. Extremism of this sort typically breeds in a toxic swamp of ingrained misogyny, white supremacy and economic disenfranchisement. Sanders didn’t create any of these, but a lot of his message was coded (deliberately or otherwise) in a way that reinforced the deep-seated conviction that white working-class men are the nation’s top priority. And that message tapped into something that was apparently lurking just below the surface, ready to explode.

The Portland killer (you can see his name in the screenshot but I’m not going to use it) took his thwarted sense of entitlement and paranoid fantasy of victimhood to a horrifying extreme. The Berniebro movement didn’t create his distorted and hateful ideology, but it sure provided a petri dish for it to thrive. If the correlation between alt-right white supremacy and theCharleston church shooter is very clear, these murders should be viewed no differently. Hippy-dippy Portland, it turns out, is also a hotbed of white male supremacy, and being surrounded by frothing fanatics who share your delusions only makes it more likely that, sooner or later, something will snap.

 

Like their alt-right counterparts, there is nothing, literally nothing this group will not believe about Clinton, no matter how fantastical: Wikileaks, Pizzagate, murdering Seth Rich and Vince Foster, using her foundation as a front for the mafia, even being an actual literal witch and/or demon, for ’s sake. It’s every bit as virulent as the Jade Helm, Obama-is-building-a-secret-Muslim-army tinfoil hat bullshit. The media has been quick to report how Clinton’s narrow loss has emboldened racism, misogyny and Islamophobia by the far right, but I’ve yet to see any in-depth reporting on the rising extremism on the left. Usually it gets glossed over as simply Democratic party “infighting.” It is not. It’s something far more sinister — and now, deadly.

 

Where the did this come from? It wasn’t there in 2008, or even in 2000 (the Nader people were obnoxious but, on a personal level, largely benign). The rise of social media has surely played a role — it’s easier for them to find each other now, and reinforce each other’s worldviews. And of course, there were those Russian bots who specifically targeted Sanders supporters in swing states with false news stories about Clinton, and who are apparently still at work. Take a look at who’s pushing the Seth Rich murder conspiracy that even Fox News was forced to walk back, but which the alt-left still continues to retweet:

 

By the way, the alt-left also refuses to give any credence whatsoever to the Russian interference in the 2016 election, 17 U.S. intelligence agencies be damned; it’s all a pathetic liberal fantasy. If that sounds like Republican logic, well, that’s because it is. They’ve has more than a little help from the GOP, who wanted Sanders as the nominee because he’d be easier (and less expensive) to crush. The Young Turks, an online progressive “news” network that has essentially turned into The Bernie Channel, is Republican-funded. Our wacko splinter faction is a useful wedge for the GOP, who ought to know better than anyone the dangers of letting your lunatic fringe into the big tent.

 

For decades the far right lurked in the shadows, stockpiling weapons and dreaming of overthrowing the gubmint, and now they literally occupy the highest offices in the land. Steve Bannon’s mission is nothing less than the dismantling of our democratic system and institutions; a similar goal has been expressed to me a number of times by gleeful Bernouts. If we give them any influence or control over our party, where will it lead?

Extremism of any sort is the enemy of progress. Be the radical center.

It may not be fair to lay this monster at Sanders’s door. But he helped birth it, however unwittingly, by courting Independents and Libertarians — and he needs to take an active role in suppressing it. We can’t afford to lose more Ricky Bests, Taliesin Namkai-Meches, or Micah David-Cole Fletchers. We need them now more than we ever have before.

 

https://medium.com/@valrendel_88615/why-it-matters-that-the-portland-killer-was-a-far-left-extremist-11d001382139

 

The plot thickens...

Why does this need to be a political spectrum thing?  Hate is Hate