US declines to endorse Paris Climate agreement [merged threads]

[IAMX 3,055]

12 minutes ago, Leon & Mylen said:

California started the cap and trade program in 2013.  That's 3-1/2 years, not 10.  So there is that.

 

And so far, it has been successful.  California is well on track to meet the 2020 emissions standards it set with the program.  

 

Is the trade generating enough revenue for the state?  No, but that's simply because enough companies are reducing emissions that they don't need to bid for additional allowances.  With the primary goal of the program - that of reducing emissions - this is a GOOD thing.

For California, it makes sense, the entire state has a population of over 35 million + an army of illegals, so emissions directly influence the air locals breathe.

 

But why should states like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, North Dakota, South Dakota, New Mexico, Iowa, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Alaska, Hawaii, etc.? They don't have this problem. Makes sense to keep it on a state by state basis. Federal government being involved is stupid.

Edited June 2, 2017 by IAMX

[Bugs 455]

7 minutes ago, IAMX said:

For California, it makes sense, the entire state has a population of over 35 million + an army of illegals, so emissions directly influence the air locals breathe.

 

But why should states like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, North Dakota, South Dakota, New Mexico, Iowa, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Alaska, Hawaii, etc.? They don't have this problem. Makes sense to keep it on a state by state basis. Federal government being involved is stupid.

 

Global warming means exactly that.  CO2 emissions don't stay in the state they were emitted from, let alone affect only the state climate.  Everyone needs to be in an agreement or we will all suffer.  California is doing its part.  Are you?

[Bugs 455]

I also find it hilarious how people are bringing up illegal immigration to scapegoat on even this topic. 

 

Jesus Christ.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

51 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I thought Paris was just words? Nothing binding. 

 

All meaningless so odd to raise a fuss, just do what the French do, sign and ignore.

No it was not binding, but it still called for the USA to give Billions of dollars a year to less developed countries to help them "emit less carbon while developing". 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

28 minutes ago, Leon & Mylen said:

California started the cap and trade program in 2013.  That's 3-1/2 years, not 10.  So there is that.

And so far, it has been successful.  California is well on track to meet the 2020 emissions standards it set with the program. 

Is the trade generating enough revenue for the state?  No, but that's simply because enough companies are reducing emissions that they don't need to bid for additional allowances.  With the primary goal of the program - that of reducing emissions - this is a GOOD thing.

The only thing that Cap and Trade has helped keep a lifeline to the Moonbeam's crazy train that's it. It's only hurting the poor and middle class while giving the state more money. 

[Bugs 455]

8 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

No it was not binding, but it still called for the USA to give Billions of dollars a year to less developed countries to help them "emit less carbon while developing". 

The US was responsible for insane amounts of CO2 pumped yearly for decades as the #1 emitter of greenhouse gases.  So it's fair to ask us to compensate for the damage and unfair to ask countries still developing to burden themselves when we didn't for so long when building our economy.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Leon & Mylen

[Bugs 455]

6 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

The only thing that Cap and Trade has helped keep a lifeline to the Moonbeam's crazy train that's it. It's only hurting the poor and middle class while giving the state more money. 

 

I see.  Alrighty then.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Leon & Mylen

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

9 minutes ago, Leon & Mylen said:

 

Global warming means exactly that.  CO2 emissions don't stay in the state they were emitted from, let alone affect only the state climate.  Everyone needs to be in an agreement or we will all suffer.  California is doing its part.  Are you?

Ok I agree with this and I have always agreed that the world warms and cools, it is called a climate trend and has been happening far longer than either of us have been alive. California is not doing jack or ####### at all. The state government and the celebrities like to talk about doing their part, all the while flying around the world in private planes. But California is still not even talking about the stuff that is hurting the state such as:

 

2016 SoCal Gas Leak emitted the TONS of Global Warming Gas Methane for months, and now they think it's causing people cancer that lived in that neighborhood. What did Moonbeam ever say about the situation???? Nothing, because his sister is on the SoCal Gas board. 

 

2017: Oroville Dam disaster could have gotten alot worse but luckily it didn't. What did Moonbeam say after it came out they held off on much needed repairs?????? Nothing. 

 

2015/2016: Water Crisis, Moonbeam did nothing all the while ensuring that the Delta Smelt is kept alive by dumping water into the ocean. 

[OriZ 3,157]

40 minutes ago, Leon & Mylen said:

Do I really need to answer this?  Is there a reason why it's not irresponsible to smoke around kids?

Oi Vey. And you guys talk about other people's reading comprehensions...geeze...

[Jacque67 7,328]

27 minutes ago, Leon & Mylen said:

I also find it hilarious how people are bringing up illegal immigration to scapegoat on even this topic. 

 

Jesus Christ.

you know you're winning when they start fixating on squirrels;)!!

[Bugs 455]

2 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

Ok I agree with this and I have always agreed that the world warms and cools, it is called a climate trend and has been happening far longer than either of us have been alive. California is not doing jack or ####### at all. The state government and the celebrities like to talk about doing their part, all the while flying around the world in private planes. But California is still not even talking about the stuff that is hurting the state such as:

 

2016 SoCal Gas Leak emitted the TONS of Global Warming Gas Methane for months, and now they think it's causing people cancer that lived in that neighborhood. What did Moonbeam ever say about the situation???? Nothing, because his sister is on the SoCal Gas board. 

 

2017: Oroville Dam disaster could have gotten alot worse but luckily it didn't. What did Moonbeam say after it came out they held off on much needed repairs?????? Nothing. 

 

2015/2016: Water Crisis, Moonbeam did nothing all the while ensuring that the Delta Smelt is kept alive by dumping water into the ocean. 

 

I would probably agree with you on all these things.  However, regarding the topic of this thread, that of global warming, your contention that California isn't reducing emissions is false, and, in fact, California is leading the world, let alone the nation, on that matter.

 

Obviously you hate Jerry Brown.  But don't let such zealousness blind you from this simple fact that we are doing some things right and hate those things as well.

 

But it is my guess that you don't believe that we, as humans, have artificially contributed to global warming, so perhaps this is irrelevant for you.  Your statement on climate trends absent human influence indicates so anyways, as this a common fallacious argument of the right and science-deniers.

 

Science, of course, and 97% of climate scientists - the actual experts on the matter - ardently disagree with you on this.  Statistics show that we are artificially pumping an additional 29 gigatons a year into our climate - note I said IN ADDITION - to the normal rate CO2 is emitted by Earth and life on it naturally.  Furthermore, the math shows that this brings us from a negative net emission/absorption figure to a positive, and has for decades.  And charts show a direct correspondence between this surplus during the Industrial Age that we are in and the cumulative rise in CO2 and global temperatures.  Furthermore, if you want to talk about trends, cyclic data over millenia show that we were set to go into a COOLING trend before the Industrial Age changed things.

 

I think I'll stick with the research rather than some random internet guy who seems to have a hard on for our governor.

[Bugs 455]

15 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Oi Vey. And you guys talk about other people's reading comprehensions...geeze...

 

Okay, it is completely good parenting and responsible to smoke around kids.

[Boiler 44,855]

39 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

No it was not binding, but it still called for the USA to give Billions of dollars a year to less developed countries to help them "emit less carbon while developing". 

Like China and India.

[Boiler 44,855]

1 hour ago, Leon & Mylen said:

California started the cap and trade program in 2013.  That's 3-1/2 years, not 10.  So there is that.

 

And so far, it has been successful.  California is well on track to meet the 2020 emissions standards it set with the program.  

 

Is the trade generating enough revenue for the state?  No, but that's simply because enough companies are reducing emissions that they don't need to bid for additional allowances.  With the primary goal of the program - that of reducing emissions - this is a GOOD thing.

The industries involved just  move elsewhere, problem solved?

[Bugs 455]

11 minutes ago, Boiler said:

The industries involved just  move elsewhere, problem solved?

Some do, but most do not.  Our primary industries - Silicon Valley, agriculture, and Hollywood - remain intact and we still have the 6th largest GDP in the world.  I'm pretty sure we will be fine in helping out the rest of the world move forward on this a bit.  

 

Other states are following suit, by the way, not to mention every other country in the world except Syria.  Does this mean these exiting industries will continue to hop around?