DHS To Ban Electronics in the Cabin

[yuna628 9,676]

I got wind of this story through the pipeline a few days ago. Word on the street is currently unclear which electronic devices it will refer to, but if it is exactly like the previous ban, you can bet it will be laptops, imacs, consoles, tablets, perhaps even handheld game devices. To sum up - the device ban will now include any flight from Europe. I don't know if that means China is free to go about laptopping while on board.

 

As per the last ban I am confident that this is a terrible idea and will eventually lead to a very bad thing.

It's to be announced tomorrow.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/05/10/us-electronics-ban-announcement-thursday/

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-electronics-ban-idUSKBN1862QS

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dhs-bans-laptops-large-electronics-europe-u-s-flights-article-1.3153743

 

[IAMX 3,055]

Well, I mean, with the ever shrinking space people have, where does a laptop come into play anymore? My ASUS ROG laptop would never fit on those trays. What about tablets? 

 

I also don't understand what you mean by "lead to very bad things", or rather, to edit, "lead to a very bad thing".

Edited May 10, 2017 by IAMX

[yuna628 9,676]

9 minutes ago, IAMX said:

Well, I mean, with the ever shrinking space people have, where does a laptop come into play anymore? My ASUS ROG laptop would never fit on those trays. What about tablets? 

 

I also don't understand what you mean by "lead to very bad things", or rather, to edit, "lead to a very bad thing".

To my understanding unless it is the size of a standard cellphone it is unlikely to be allowed on board - that goes for tablets or even kindles or gaming devices. Plenty of people use their laptops on board these days, and especially so for those in the business and first class cabins. As per the first thread about the original ban on VJ, there is a significant risk in carrying devices in the hold as has been noted by the aviation industry and concerned individuals. It furthermore does not make the aircraft more safe, and may increase the burden on the industry for theft, loss, damage, and compromised data. Airlines and consumers alike are not happy about this at all.

Edited May 10, 2017 by yuna628

[IAMX 3,055]

6 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

To my understanding unless it is the size of a standard cellphone it is unlikely to be allowed on board - that goes for tablets or even kindles or gaming devices. Plenty of people use their laptops on board these days, and especially so for those in the business and first class cabins. As per the first thread about the original ban on VJ, there is a significant risk in carrying devices in the hold as has been noted by the aviation industry and concerned individuals. It furthermore does not make the aircraft more safe, and may increase the burden on the industry for theft, loss, damage, and compromised data.

I do agree I can see that being an issue if one has to check it in, with how much they toss ####### around and mistreat people's stuff.

 

If this occurs what I would suggest is to get a travel bag or backpack. In my case, I have the Everki Titan Checkpoint backpack. There is extra room, use it for padding and add bubble wrap like doing a package to the inside to lessen the effect of fall damage.

 

As for safety, there's no question this is being done for safety after a flight saw a person who had explosives in their laptop detonated it on a flight. Thankfully the idiot only killed himself. But what other recourse is there when the sophistication of terrorists reaches this level?

 

Anyhow, probably a good idea regardless nowadays to always check in advance what you can bring on and what you can't.

Edited May 10, 2017 by IAMX

[spookyturtle 9,466]

More of the left infringing upon people's rights. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

I don't think the right to get on a airplane is covered in the constitution and I don't think it's a right versus left issue. It's about trying to keep radical Muslims from blowing up planes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😎

[yuna628 9,676]

I would argue that this will also cause additional headaches for the screening of devices in bags. Most people rarely would think to stick their expensive electronics into the hold, preferring to keep them on their person, now screeners will be having to examine hold bags for all sorts of devices. This may cause baggage to be further delayed and lost on the plane. As consumer airline advocacy groups have discussed - it is actually more dangerous to have such devices explode in the hold rather than in the cabin. The high risk of battery fire causing an explosion by an accident is also very high. As has been evidenced by other devices that have exploded in the hold (leading to catastrophic loss) it doesn't take much more than a small signal into the device. A compromised device could be planted into someone's hold baggage by an employee and no one would be the wiser. And there are various other methods of smuggling explosives on board into the cabin.

 

Btw, what's to stop someone from bringing a device onto the cabin via a flight from the US into Europe? If you want to have a catastrophic loss of life, does it matter where it goes off? Aviation experts speculate that Europe could begin imposing their own restrictions or fines onto us for retaliation.

[IAMX 3,055]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I don't think the right to get on a airplane is covered in the constitution and I don't think it's a right versus left issue. It's about trying to keep radical Muslims from blowing up planes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😎

Is someone throwing tantrums?

 

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

I would argue that this will also cause additional headaches for the screening of devices in bags. Most people rarely would think to stick their expensive electronics into the hold, preferring to keep them on their person, now screeners will be having to examine hold bags for all sorts of devices. This may cause baggage to be further delayed and lost on the plane. As consumer airline advocacy groups have discussed - it is actually more dangerous to have such devices explode in the hold rather than in the cabin. The high risk of battery fire causing an explosion by an accident is also very high. As has been evidenced by other devices that have exploded in the hold (leading to catastrophic loss) it doesn't take much more than a small signal into the device. A compromised device could be planted into someone's hold baggage by an employee and no one would be the wiser. And there are various other methods of smuggling explosives on board into the cabin.

 

Btw, what's to stop someone from bringing a device onto the cabin via a flight from the US into Europe? If you want to have a catastrophic loss of life, does it matter where it goes off? Aviation experts speculate that Europe could begin imposing their own restrictions or fines onto us for retaliation.

Pick your poison. They could perform much more invasive searches in the security areas.. but people would complain about this too. Instead of delving into that area of privacy rights they likely won't win, makes more sense to just ban items that are being used, or they find terrorists are trying to use. If one doesn't like the extra regulations, in the end, they don't have to fly.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I don't think the right to get on a airplane is covered in the constitution and I don't think it's a right versus left issue. It's about trying to keep radical Muslims from blowing up planes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😎

Of course it is. Everything here is about the right or left. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

I got wind of this story through the pipeline a few days ago. Word on the street is currently unclear which electronic devices it will refer to, but if it is exactly like the previous ban, you can bet it will be laptops, imacs, consoles, tablets, perhaps even handheld game devices. To sum up - the device ban will now include any flight from Europe. I don't know if that means China is free to go about laptopping while on board.

 

As per the last ban I am confident that this is a terrible idea and will eventually lead to a very bad thing.

It's to be announced tomorrow.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/05/10/us-electronics-ban-announcement-thursday/

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-electronics-ban-idUSKBN1862QS

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dhs-bans-laptops-large-electronics-europe-u-s-flights-article-1.3153743

 

I think I have explained this to you before but here I go again:

 

I can see why they are doing this if this turns out to be true about banning them in cabin from flights originating from Europe. Europe has basically been under siege from Radical Islamic Terrorism for a few years now, and Daesh would like nothing less than to blow up a plane in their name. There are tons of people in Europe that can basically do some minor stuff hygiene wise and appear to be respectful people, that is until they blow the plane up at 30,000 feet in the air like what they did in the Sinai. 

 

It does not have to take a big explosion at 30,000 feet for the plane to basically rip apart and go down. All it would take is an IED about the size of a laptop or tablet to cause considerable damage to the plane at LOW altitude like what happened in Somalia. But if it went off at HIGH altitude it would be catastrophic to say the least. After what happened in the Sinai explosion and following crash, they were left picking up bodies for literally 30 miles. 

 

Yes, people can make explosive devices or IED's as small as a soda can or a tablet/laptop. I have seen it in person and I have had friends of mine left permanently scarred from small IED's. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

It looks like they some serious intel for them to even consider this. 

[IAMX 3,055]

1 hour ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I think I have explained this to you before but here I go again:

 

I can see why they are doing this if this turns out to be true about banning them in cabin from flights originating from Europe. Europe has basically been under siege from Radical Islamic Terrorism for a few years now, and Daesh would like nothing less than to blow up a plane in their name. There are tons of people in Europe that can basically do some minor stuff hygiene wise and appear to be respectful people, that is until they blow the plane up at 30,000 feet in the air like what they did in the Sinai. 

 

It does not have to take a big explosion at 30,000 feet for the plane to basically rip apart and go down. All it would take is an IED about the size of a laptop or tablet to cause considerable damage to the plane at LOW altitude like what happened in Somalia. But if it went off at HIGH altitude it would be catastrophic to say the least. After what happened in the Sinai explosion and following crash, they were left picking up bodies for literally 30 miles. 

 

Yes, people can make explosive devices or IED's as small as a soda can or a tablet/laptop. I have seen it in person and I have had friends of mine left permanently scarred from small IED's. 

Agreed. In my teens I used to voluntarily do some home-made pyrotechnics with ZPP and ZWPP at our neighborhood ID4 events until the Feds and California alike went crazy with restrictions (after which when this stash ran out we just used mortars, m180s, etc. from Mexicos finest) . They let me keep my stash but I had to report all of it of the ATF and acquire a license. The powder mentioned is so explosive open dry air (typical California 5-35% humidity) can easily produce enough static charge to detonate it. It takes like a fraction of a teaspoon of this powder to blow up airbags as quickly and forcefully as they do. A cup of it could easily crater much of our old house. It doesn't take much ingenuity in explosives to do something extremely dangerous, and often with stuff available in shopping aisles. Until better technology is here to accurately detect any of this stuff (and who knows how long it will take), best thing to do atm is err on the side of caution. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

4 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I don't think the right to get on a airplane is covered in the constitution and I don't think it's a right versus left issue. It's about trying to keep radical Muslims from blowing up planes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😎

Yeah...just ask that guy who was beaten and dragged from the united cabin...no constitutional right to fly.

[yuna628 9,676]

11 hours ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I think I have explained this to you before but here I go again:

 

I can see why they are doing this if this turns out to be true about banning them in cabin from flights originating from Europe. Europe has basically been under siege from Radical Islamic Terrorism for a few years now, and Daesh would like nothing less than to blow up a plane in their name. There are tons of people in Europe that can basically do some minor stuff hygiene wise and appear to be respectful people, that is until they blow the plane up at 30,000 feet in the air like what they did in the Sinai. 

 

It does not have to take a big explosion at 30,000 feet for the plane to basically rip apart and go down. All it would take is an IED about the size of a laptop or tablet to cause considerable damage to the plane at LOW altitude like what happened in Somalia. But if it went off at HIGH altitude it would be catastrophic to say the least. After what happened in the Sinai explosion and following crash, they were left picking up bodies for literally 30 miles. 

 

Yes, people can make explosive devices or IED's as small as a soda can or a tablet/laptop. I have seen it in person and I have had friends of mine left permanently scarred from small IED's. 

You don't have to explain anything to me. I know how explosives can go into such devices. However, please do tell me how placing such devices in the hold vs the cabin makes them any less explosive? Also please tell me how the government or the airlines are going to ensure the safety of our devices in the hold and furthermore let the public know that placing those devices in the hold may cause an explosive accident and is placing passengers at an increased risk of being in a plane that may go down not because of a malicious device, but because of an explosive battery fire (which has happened before)? Some airlines actually have policies that FORBID electronics such as computers, laptops, and batteries in the cargo hold at all. How then should those passengers fly? FedEx it to themselves?

 

Some business travelers also have company policies which forbid their employees from checking their devices into the cargo hold for obvious security breach concerns.

Edited May 11, 2017 by yuna628

[IAMX 3,055]

13 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

You don't have to explain anything to me. I know how explosives can go into such devices. However, please do tell me how placing such devices in the hold vs the cabin makes them any less explosive? Also please tell me how the government or the airlines are going to ensure the safety of our devices in the hold and furthermore let the public know that placing those devices in the hold may cause an explosive accident?

I'm not an expert at counterterrorism, but off the top of my head, moving things to cargo can prevent explosives going off in numerous ways:

 

1) prevent direct contact causing explosive to go off

2) lessen the static potential that could ignite sensitive explosives

3) can allow airlines to retrofit signal blocking around the cargo hold to prevent remote devices from detonating

 

It doesn't take much thinking to see how this is a logical preventative measure. It's not 100% foolproof but nothing ever is. It's a logical weight balancing of safe air travel (and not having another 9/11 or worse happen) and individual freedoms. 

 

As for the logistics of keeping people's stuff safe, that's up to the airlines. This would add a burden upon them, for sure. But this is not something that takes that much innovation to figure out. Raise baggage fees, allow special class of baggage for safer handling to be checked in with the usual luggage (i.e. one backpack, laptop bag, etc. for electronic devices that are not allowed) but placed in another area of the cargo hold. Not that tough.

 

You're simply adding complications to this because you don't like the idea. I sure as hell don't like the idea either (I can hardly sit still in a 2+ hour flight without fidgeting due to my ADHD, so not having entertainment on my PED's is gonna drive me nuts), but I understand why. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by IAMX