Potential joint sponser issues

[DeadPoolX 9]

Okay, well... I'm not sure if this is right forum for this sort of post, but I couldn't think of where else to post it. Anyway, this is going to take some explaining...

My fiancee and I (obviously) want to get married, be together and live in the United States. Some of the smaller details aren't important, but what is important is that my father will be required to be my joint sponser. He doesn't know this yet. My father makes more than enough to qualify (and then some), so monetarily, it's not a problem.

The problem is the conditions that come down on the joint sponser for sponsoring the permanent resident. My fiancee doesn't want to become a U.S. citizen because she doesn't want the U.S. government having excessive control over her actions or more control over her than the Canadian government. I think she's afraid of becoming a USC and then the U.S. government going beserk and not allowing USC's to leave the country or something silly like that. I really don't think such a thing would occur, but she's made up her mind that she won't become a citizen; that being a permanent resident and greencard holder is good enough.

That's fine with me, for the most part. My father, on the other hand, probably won't like it. If I understand everything correctly, the joint sponser will be financially responsible for the permanent resident for 10 years (even in the event of a divorce) and unless she works a certain amount (the number escapes me at the moment), the contract still holds. My fiancee is planning to work and she says that my father will "never have to make good" on supporting her and, in the unlikely event we were to divorce, she'd "move back to Canada." Neither of us plan on that happening, however.

Okay, that sounds fine and good, but my I know my father. He won't buy it. He won't sign a legally binding agreement stating that he is financially responsible for someone outside his family for a decade, especially if the responsibility continues in the case of a divorce. So I have a problem here, and I'm unsure of how to go about fixing it.

That's why I'm asking you all for help. My father is the only one I can go to in this event. I need some advice on what to do.

Help would be appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

[together2love 0]

Alright, so I assume (since you have not timeline) that you are going to apply for the K1? If so, then once she gets to the USA you are going to be applying to adjust her status to a CONDITIONAL permenant resident. You say you will need a joint sponsor for this, you father. And you have no other friends or family who would be willing to do this? Alright, so this means that he would need to fill out the sponsor forms, but (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) this sponsorship should only be valid until she files to remove her conditions 2 years later after receiving her 1st, conditional greencard. It is then, that the 10 year greencard will need to be received and (again someone correct me if I'm wrong and I very well could be) you may have to fill out another sponsorship form at this time. Now if this is true (and again, I'm really not for sure if you must fill out another affidavit) then could you not by that time, be able to support her financially?

I think that there is a way for you to include her income/assets to offset your sponsorship to make the 125%, so that is another option that you can think of.

I'm sure someone else will come in and answer this, and might be of much more help that I. Sorry if I'm off the mark here. I wish you luck.

[mozplay 29]

Well, for one, you can tell your fiancee that just because she chooses to become a USC (if she chooses) that it does not mean she has to give up her Canadian status as a citizen. She will still be a Canadian citizen - just not a resident.

Another good reason for obtaining citizenship status is that you have voting rights. It sounds as though your fiancee has strong opinions on the political state of the US and perhaps she would then like to be an agent of change instead of just an observer.

As for the situation with your father - does his responsibilities end if she becomes a USC? My father-in-law stood as joint-sponsor for us to, so you would think I would know the answer to that question, but honestly, I don't. Or is it that he won't sponsor someone who has no intentions of obtaining citizenship status? Sorry, I'm not too clear on what you wrote.

The last thing I will add is that if everything plays out as you fear it will, then your fiancee will then have to decide whether her refusal to become a USC eventually will be worth the sacrifice she will have to make - namely you. Does she understand that without your father's support, you will not be together?

At least - not together right now. Perhaps you will both have to wait to file until you can support her independently.

Mo

[Jenn! 918]

As stated in the I-864 instructions:

Your obligation to support the immigrant(s) you are sponsoring in this affidavit of support will continue until the sponsored immigrant becomes a U.S. citizen, or can be credited with 40 qualifying quarters of work in the United States. Although 40 qualifying quarters of work (credits) generally equate to ten years of work, in certain cases the work of a spouse or parent adds qualifying quarters. The Social Security Administration can provide information on how to count qualifying quarters (credits) of work. The obligation also ends if you or the sponsored immigrant dies or if the sponsored immigrant ceases to be a lawful permanent resident and departs the United States. Divorce does not end the sponsorship obligation.

So, yes, becoming a USC will end the sponsorship obligation. Removal of conditions will NOT end the sponsorship obligation.

Edited April 11, 2007 by jenn3539

[mozplay 29]

As stated in the I-864 instructions:

Your obligation to support the immigrant(s) you are sponsoring in this affidavit of support will continue until the sponsored immigrant becomes a U.S. citizen.

So, yes, becoming a USC will end the sponsorship obligation. Removal of conditions will NOT end the sponsorship obligation.

Thanks .. lol. It was never an issue for us because I do want voting rights, but thanks for the info all the same.

Mo

[together2love 0]

As stated in the I-864 instructions:

Your obligation to support the immigrant(s) you are sponsoring in this affidavit of support will continue until the sponsored immigrant becomes a U.S. citizen, or can be credited with 40 qualifying quarters of work in the United States. Although 40 qualifying quarters of work (credits) generally equate to ten years of work, in certain cases the work of a spouse or parent adds qualifying quarters. The Social Security Administration can provide information on how to count qualifying quarters (credits) of work. The obligation also ends if you or the sponsored immigrant dies or if the sponsored immigrant ceases to be a lawful permanent resident and departs the United States. Divorce does not end the sponsorship obligation.

So, yes, becoming a USC will end the sponsorship obligation. Removal of conditions will NOT end the sponsorship obligation.

Thanks for the clairification!

[Married_my_love 0]

It sounds to me like you need to find another sponsor.... The only way my brother and I could agree for him to sponsor my husband was a promise that as soon and early as legally possible hubby would apply for the citizenship. My husband had some mixed feelings about the citizenship thing too, until I explained that applying didn't mean he would be a Canadian, and that he'd have the best of both worlds. I seriously doubt my brother would have embraced sponsoring my husband for 10 years, not that he doubts our intentions, but that is a lot to ask of someone, when it could be 3 years instead.........

[Married_my_love 0]

I explained that applying didn't mean he would be a Canadian

Oh Criminy! That was supposed to read "that applying didn't mean he'd STOP being a Canadian!"

Edited April 11, 2007 by Married_my_love

[Flames9_RN 358]

It is a big subject for some not wantin gto be "citizen" of the USA, I do not really want to either, but really have no other option (wifes line of work) As well soem jobs are only available for citizens. I will apply for citizenship this fall, but will always travel on my Canadian passport (except to renter the USA) Just becuase one takes up citizenship from another country, doesnt make one any less Canadian. Plus there are other benefits such as if you (the USA citizen) die, things are a lot more complicated if ur spouse (her) is NOT a citizen, I belive Uncle Sam will take a lot more $$$ from the estate!! Plus even as a permanent resident, they can kick her butt out of the country,lol Best of luck

[DeadPoolX 9]

Well, for one, you can tell your fiancee that just because she chooses to become a USC (if she chooses) that it does not mean she has to give up her Canadian status as a citizen. She will still be a Canadian citizen - just not a resident.

Another good reason for obtaining citizenship status is that you have voting rights. It sounds as though your fiancee has strong opinions on the political state of the US and perhaps she would then like to be an agent of change instead of just an observer.

As for the situation with your father - does his responsibilities end if she becomes a USC? My father-in-law stood as joint-sponsor for us to, so you would think I would know the answer to that question, but honestly, I don't. Or is it that he won't sponsor someone who has no intentions of obtaining citizenship status? Sorry, I'm not too clear on what you wrote.

The last thing I will add is that if everything plays out as you fear it will, then your fiancee will then have to decide whether her refusal to become a USC eventually will be worth the sacrifice she will have to make - namely you. Does she understand that without your father's support, you will not be together?

At least - not together right now. Perhaps you will both have to wait to file until you can support her independently.

Mo

She knows she'll still be a Canadian citizen, but what she disagrees with is the whole U.S. citizen ceremony -- where they make you "renounce" your former country's citizenship. We both realize that Canada doesn't recognize this and that Canadians (and many other nationalities) remain citizens of their country; however, she views it as lying and therefore, doesn't want to take part in the process. I think what she wants is for the U.S. to say it's "okay" for her to be a Canadian citizen and a USC at the same time... only, I don't think the U.S. is going to say that, at least not openly. I know that the United States tolerates dual-citizenship, but I remember reading that it doesn't particularly care for it.

My fiancee actually doesn't care much about voting rights, oddly enough. She says she doesn't care if she can or cannot vote in the United States. Of course, she says this now as Canadian citizen living in Canada with full voting rights -- how she'll feel about the lack of such rights later on remains to be seen.

As it's been stated here, my father's financial responsibilities would end if my fiancee would agree to become a U.S. citizen. I think the real issue is, I know he'll never agree to sponsor someone who has no intention of becoming a citizen and he could have to potentially support for a decade, whether or not she is with me.

It sounds to me like you need to find another sponsor.... The only way my brother and I could agree for him to sponsor my husband was a promise that as soon and early as legally possible hubby would apply for the citizenship. My husband had some mixed feelings about the citizenship thing too, until I explained that applying didn't mean he would be a Canadian, and that he'd have the best of both worlds. I seriously doubt my brother would have embraced sponsoring my husband for 10 years, not that he doubts our intentions, but that is a lot to ask of someone, when it could be 3 years instead.........

I agree, but I don't have another sponsor. No one else could do it.

I'm positive my father would agree to do it if my fiancee would become a USC. However, if she doesn't, I can't see him going along with the plan.

[Flames9_RN 358]

I guerss you and her have some big issued to discuss. So what ur saying she would rather stay in canada, then be with you, unless u move to canada!! Might be a harsh way to look at things!! As stated before, one isn't any less a Cdn, because u take up citizenship of another country.

Edited April 11, 2007 by flames9

[Emancipation 2]

So.. again you guys read my thoughts... and I'm SOO thankful for this thread. I told my hubby that i would NEVER become a USC, but this has given me much to think about . I didn't realize you could keep both passports.. MMMMM talk on!!

[Flames9_RN 358]

There are plus's and negatives to becoming a USA citizen. Yes you can keep ur Cdn passport and keep renewing it. I know I will be, and probably much better to travel on it!! i know during my military time, many countries treated us canucks beetters than they did the yanks!! Some jobs do require you to be a USA citizen (some police, govt, etc) and if a job came down to u as a perm resident, and another as a USA citizen, I bet the USA citizen gets the job, maybe not always,but if ur quals were close and they required a deciding factor, well..... Plus who wants to keep dealing with US immigration,lol In the end its just a "title--USA citizen" In the heart and soul, one (if they want) is always a Canadian!

[Carlawarla 1]

Just some added information....you might "verbally" renouce your citizenship? at a ceremony for your US Citizenship,( although I don't even know if that's true...) however you cannot "officially" renounce your Canadian Citizenship, unless you appear before a Canadian court, saying you want to renounce it and this is after you MUST file requesting it. A court will not grant you your request without a good reason. You cannot also renounce your Canadian Citizenship, unless you already have citizenship with another county. (So you're not left without a country!).

Sounds like you have some serious discussion ahead of you. Personally I'd say with your SO, not your father. I do understand his position. I plan to hold dual citizenship. I made the decision to come down here, to marry my then fiance, and to me that means embracing all that this country offers me, good or bad.

Me thinks she's been reading too many US conspiracy books! Big Brother down here is no different than Big Brother up there as far as I'm concerned.

Don't want my comments to offend anyone, just speaking my mind.

Carla

[DeadPoolX 9]

Just some added information....you might "verbally" renouce your citizenship? at a ceremony for your US Citizenship,( although I don't even know if that's true...) however you cannot "officially" renounce your Canadian Citizenship, unless you appear before a Canadian court, saying you want to renounce it and this is after you MUST file requesting it. A court will not grant you your request without a good reason. You cannot also renounce your Canadian Citizenship, unless you already have citizenship with another county. (So you're not left without a country!).

Sounds like you have some serious discussion ahead of you. Personally I'd say with your SO, not your father. I do understand his position. I plan to hold dual citizenship. I made the decision to come down here, to marry my then fiance, and to me that means embracing all that this country offers me, good or bad.

Me thinks she's been reading too many US conspiracy books! Big Brother down here is no different than Big Brother up there as far as I'm concerned.

Don't want my comments to offend anyone, just speaking my mind.

Carla

As I said before, we both know and understand that even with verbally renouncing her Canadian citizenship during the ceremony, she'd remain a Canadian citizen in the eyes of Canada. That's not the issue. What is the issue is that if she becomes a USC, the U.S. government will have greater control over her (than I suppose she likes) and in her eyes that she'd essentially be lying, since she wouldn't really be giving up her Canadian citizenship. Not that she wants to give it up; she fully intends to remain a Canadian citizen.

She's asked me before, "Why don't you become a Canadian citizen?" I don't see how becoming a Canadian citizen would help our situation any. Granted, I've thought about it, if for no other reason than the fact I'd be able to use a Canadian passport and never have to be looked at like a criminal again when going through Canadian Customs & Immigration.

Would I become a Canadian citizen if we going to live in Canada? You bet. I'd do that as soon as I could.

But we're not going to live in Canada; we are going to live in the United States. So I just don't see the overall logic in asking me that sort of question.

The only thing is... I've tried having a long talk with her, she attempts to put the subject off and/or she gets annoyed. She says it's unreasonable and unfair of me to ask this of her. If it were just me, I wouldn't care if she became a USC or not. Would it be nice? Sure. I wouldn't have to worry about anything such as deportation (not that she's the type to break laws, but still, the risk is always there if you're a permanent resident), but it's not just me.

Anyway, I'll have another talk with her tonight. I'll see what comes up. She's probably resist the idea again, but it never hurts to try once more.