Trump: Australia has better healthcare system than US

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/332036-trump-australia-has-better-healthcare-system%3Famp

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

 

President Trump remarked Thursday that Australia has a better healthcare system than the U.S.

Trump's comments in a meeting with the Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull came shortly after the commander in chief praised the GOP healthcare bill passed in the House earlier in the day.

"It's a very good bill right now. The premiums are gong to come down very substantially. The deductibles are going to come down. It's going to be fantastic healthcare. Right now ObamaCare is failing, we have a failing healthcare," Trump said.

"[O]ur great gentleman and my friend, from Australia ... you have better healthcare than we do," Trump added, turning toward Turnbull.

 

 

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) seized on Trump's remarks about the Australian system, which consists of both public and private markets, with its publicly funded universal healthcare system working alongside medical services provided by the private sector.

"That's great. Let's take a look at the Australian healthcare system. Maybe he wants to take a look at the Canadian healthcare system or systems throughout Europe," Sanders, an advocate of a single-payer system, told MSNBC's Chris Hayes.

"Thank you, Mr. President. Let us move to a Medicare-for-all system that does what every other major country on earth does – guarantee healthcare to all people at a fraction of the cost per-capita that we spend. Thank you, Mr. President. We'll quote you on the floor of the Senate."

Earlier on Thursday, the GOP-controlled House narrowly passed legislation aimed at repealing and replacing ObamaCare, sending their bill to the Senate, where it faces an uncertain futur

[IAMX 3,055]

Are there any Australians who can comment on their healthcare system? 

 

I don't know about it so I can't comment.

 

I can, however, relate to Sanders' comment on Canada's. I like it a hell of a lot better. Far more people get preventative care done, and in a province like Alberta, we have universal and our tax rate is ridiculously small. At 96k I'm taxed at 10% flat.

Edited May 5, 2017 by IAMX

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

So basically he said Australia had better, health care. Everyone agrees and Bernie Sanders said he is right.

 

Trump continues to build concencus 

[Transborderwife 4,666]

 

Are there any Australians who can comment on their healthcare system? 

 

I don't know about it so I can't comment.

 

I can, however, relate to Sanders' comment on Canada's. I like it a hell of a lot better. Far more people get preventative care done, and in a province like Alberta, we have universal and our tax rate is ridiculously small. At 96k I'm taxed at 10% flat.

It's a mixed bag for me.  I didn't have much issue in Canada, living in the metro Toronto area with availability.  Overall I preferred my birth in a us hospital to my Canadian ones, but part of that could also be attributed to technology 

[IAMX 3,055]

 

It's a mixed bag for me.  I didn't have much issue in Canada, living in the metro Toronto area with availability.  Overall I preferred my birth in a us hospital to my Canadian ones, but part of that could also be attributed to technology 

We didn't have any issues. Did you have any you care to divulge?

 

Our daughter was born via emergency c-section. I won't get into the dilation cm and all that, but she wasn't ready to come out yet and both wife and daughter had growing medical emergencies so was a no-brainer to have emerg c-section. NICU stay was 5 days, we stayed in a parental room. Daughter had no lingering health issues was just to get the fluids out of her lungs and normalize her oxygen levels. Was a bit of a traumatic experience. Don't think it would have been any different in the US tbh. In all likelihood money out of our pockets anyways, whereas all that cost us absolutely nothing in Ontario. (daughter was born at William Osler HS/HCS in Brampton)

Edited May 5, 2017 by IAMX

[ready4ONE 5,400]

 

So basically he said Australia had better, health care. Everyone agrees and Bernie Sanders said he is right.

 

Trump continues to build concencus 

What slithered through the House today was not a plan based on the Australian model. No winning for Trump today.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

 

So basically he said Australia had better, health care. Everyone agrees and Bernie Sanders said he is right.

 

Trump continues to build concencus 

Not sure how many Republican house votes he would have for the Australia Plan.

[Jacque67 7,328]

 

What slithered through the House today was not a plan based on the Australian model. No winning for Trump today.

You mean that celebration at the Rose Garden was just optics??? Never, man! 

Oh well, he will come up with something smart at his Bedford, NJ golf course tonight...wonder why he didn't stay at Trump Tower seeing he was in NY and all...

[Dashinka 24,514]

 

So basically he said Australia had better, health care. Everyone agrees and Bernie Sanders said he is right.

 

Trump continues to build concencus 

President Trump has always showed signs he is in favor of a single payer system, so this doesn't surprise me.  I am not sure if I agree with him on that as in most cases this type of system is unsustainable, and the Federal government doesn't have a good track record relative to running a universal healthcare system (can you say VA).  From what I have seen, single payer/universal healthcare is really good for people that don't get sick and just do maintenance, but when things do take a turn south, wait times increase dramatically.

[IAMX 3,055]

 

President Trump has always showed signs he is in favor of a single payer system, so this doesn't surprise me.  I am not sure if I agree with him on that as in most cases this type of system is unsustainable, and the Federal government doesn't have a good track record relative to running a universal healthcare system (can you say VA).  From what I have seen, single payer/universal healthcare is really good for people that don't get sick and just do maintenance, but when things do take a turn south, wait times increase dramatically.

Depends on what you call "sick", and what you call "wait".

 

My last visit in SF before I left for Canada, and my hospital wait time was 7 hours. It was far from emergent but clinics were closed. This ironically matches my highest wait time at a Toronto ER, and in Alberta it's never been close to that yet, highest is 4 hours. In a situation where it wasn't just feeling like I had the flu, and was an actual emergency, I didn't wait at all. Walking in to any GP office as a walk-in, I've never had to wait more than an hour, whereas with an appointment I went in right away. At a local walk-in clinic in Toronto (not even remotely close to dealing with emergency services, just for simple conditions like pain or sick), I had to wait up to 3 hours one time.

 

For a tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy, which was optional (up to me), I waited about 3 weeks. For my first facet joint injections it took about 2 weeks from spinal X-ray, MRI, and diagnosis.

 

I've yet to see any of the dreaded wait times people in the US espouse come to fruition, so in all likelihood either this concerns other healthcare systems like the UK, or it's just fearmongering about other universal healthcare systems.

 

Regarding the US healthcare system, like you, I'm not trusting of the US government, but the thing is, there's multiple facets to government run healthcare in the US. There's federal level medical coverage (VA/Medicare), there's state level medicare, there's even county level medicare (I've yet to see where counties get their funding from, whether it be local taxes or distributed state funds). 

 

The difference between government run care in the US and government run care in Canada is easy to figure out. Canada has prices already set for any care covered by universal. In the US, it's not that simple. In the US, a good amount of providers can deny taking any government medicare. Insurance providers want the maximum amount of coverage so they tend to pay a good amount, and then the government insurance, in order to convince anyone to cover them, must compete with the private insurers, which are vastly overpriced. Then due to necessity and lack of competition, supplies also tend to be overpriced as well. Add legislation onto the existing situation, which are either in the form of regulations, or mandates to the insurance industry, and those throw the prices up further. All in all, the entire situation with the US is a gigantic mess, and the situation is one cannot even quantify (or in economic terms, "realize") the true cost of healthcare nationwide -- only guess. In Canada, the cost of healthcare is easily realized, and the prices are kept as close to bottom as they can be. While the cost of healthcare varies by province, because some provinces cover more things, or have varying populations, per capita it's still extremely low in comparison to the US estimates. 

 

Moreover, in universal healthcare systems, what's evident to me having spent years now in multiple countries' systems, in universal systems, people tend to seek out preventative care. While this increases cost of initial care, it also means people tend not to wait until they have more severe conditions before getting treatment. The facilitating cause behind this is the concern for most people in what their insurance covers, co-pays, and so on. So financial reasons, and the high cost of care, are the primary moving factor as to why many people in the US choose not to get preventative treatment. It's also why the US boasts about having quicker emergency room turnaround, because they've got so much expensive equipment lying around to treat people who tend not to get preventative care done before the matter gets more severe.

 

So all in all, the way I see things in respect to comparison of US and Canadian care:

 

- Cost can be accurately realized (quantified) in Canada

- Cost is significantly cheaper in Canada due to set prices of care

- Depending on how many services offered in each hospital (generally outside large cities they get more limited in the scope of emergency care they can provide and tend to transfer to larger cities), the net effect of cost to taxpayers of universal vs. cost to taxpayers of publicly funded hospitals (and dealing with losses that come from the uninsured not paying) and publicly funded insurance is significantly lower in Canada

 

- "Average waiting time" in Canada is typically higher because more people seek preventative care, and when local clinics and urgent care centres close in the evening, hospitals are the only place to go until the morning. In hospitals, triage nurses, which are in every first world country, assess people based on symptoms in respect to how emergent their situation is and that is the determining factor as to how long they wait. 

 

The Canadian system isn't perfect at all, but if I compare it to the US system, I FAR prefer the Canadian system.

 

Example sources of information to look at:

Average estimated wait times per state (in the URL box, change the last letters to the state abbreviation of the state you wish to see

http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/waittimes/waittimes.aspx Alberta hospital wait times (live, and changing every few minutes - note that those the triage nurses assess lower priority tend to be more akin to the wait time listed, whereas those triage deems higher priority will be far less).

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here is an accurate comparison chart given Canadian system vs. estimated US:  https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/5343032/Medical Spending Differences in the U.S. and Canada.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- The biggest savings of the Canadian system is clearly on administration, which in regards to the US system, comes directly from the cost markup associated with the insurance industry.

 

- As a fiscal conservative, I sure as hell love the cost savings of the Canadian system, and that resources can be minimized and horizontally allocated appropriately (horizontal integration being proven more efficient in the business world).

- As a social liberal, I love that everyone can get essential care without concern for out of pocket expenses, or money issues preventing getting treatment. People are more apt to treat underlying preventative issues decreasing the cost and need of emergency care, increasing the overall health, productivity, and quality of life of citizens.

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by IAMX

[Transborderwife 4,666]

I have not known anyone personally who was terminal or had a life threatening illness who had to wait extravagant times lines to obtain care, I've known quite a few cancer patients in Canada 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Transborderwife

[Dashinka 24,514]

 

Depends on what you call "sick", and what you call "wait".

 

My last visit in SF before I left for Canada, and my hospital wait time was 7 hours. It was far from emergent but clinics were closed. This ironically matches my highest wait time at a Toronto ER, and in Alberta it's never been close to that yet, highest is 4 hours. In a situation where it wasn't just feeling like I had the flu, and was an actual emergency, I didn't wait at all. Walking in to any GP office as a walk-in, I've never had to wait more than an hour, whereas with an appointment I went in right away. At a local walk-in clinic in Toronto (not even remotely close to dealing with emergency services, just for simple conditions like pain or sick), I had to wait up to 3 hours one time.

 

For a tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy, which was optional (up to me), I waited about 3 weeks. For my first facet joint injections it took about 2 weeks from spinal X-ray, MRI, and diagnosis.

 

I've yet to see any of the dreaded wait times people in the US espouse come to fruition, so in all likelihood either this concerns other healthcare systems like the UK, or it's just fearmongering about other universal healthcare systems.

 

Regarding the US healthcare system, like you, I'm not trusting of the US government, but the thing is, there's multiple facets to government run healthcare in the US. There's federal level medical coverage (VA/Medicare), there's state level medicare, there's even county level medicare (I've yet to see where counties get their funding from, whether it be local taxes or distributed state funds). 

 

The difference between government run care in the US and government run care in Canada is easy to figure out. Canada has prices already set for any care covered by universal. In the US, it's not that simple. In the US, a good amount of providers can deny taking any government medicare. Insurance providers want the maximum amount of coverage so they tend to pay a good amount, and then the government insurance, in order to convince anyone to cover them, must compete with the private insurers, which are vastly overpriced. Then due to necessity and lack of competition, supplies also tend to be overpriced as well. Add legislation onto the existing situation, which are either in the form of regulations, or mandates to the insurance industry, and those throw the prices up further. All in all, the entire situation with the US is a gigantic mess, and the situation is one cannot even quantify (or in economic terms, "realize") the true cost of healthcare nationwide -- only guess. In Canada, the cost of healthcare is easily realized, and the prices are kept as close to bottom as they can be. While the cost of healthcare varies by province, because some provinces cover more things, or have varying populations, per capita it's still extremely low in comparison to the US estimates. 

 

Moreover, in universal healthcare systems, what's evident to me having spent years now in multiple countries' systems, in universal systems, people tend to seek out preventative care. While this increases cost of initial care, it also means people tend not to wait until they have more severe conditions before getting treatment. The facilitating cause behind this is the concern for most people in what their insurance covers, co-pays, and so on. So financial reasons, and the high cost of care, are the primary moving factor as to why many people in the US choose not to get preventative treatment. It's also why the US boasts about having quicker emergency room turnaround, because they've got so much expensive equipment lying around to treat people who tend not to get preventative care done before the matter gets more severe.

 

So all in all, the way I see things in respect to comparison of US and Canadian care:

 

- Cost can be accurately realized (quantified) in Canada

- Cost is significantly cheaper in Canada due to set prices of care

- Depending on how many services offered in each hospital (generally outside large cities they get more limited in the scope of emergency care they can provide and tend to transfer to larger cities), the net effect of cost to taxpayers of universal vs. cost to taxpayers of publicly funded hospitals (and dealing with losses that come from the uninsured not paying) and publicly funded insurance is significantly lower in Canada

 

- "Average waiting time" in Canada is typically higher because more people seek preventative care, and when local clinics and urgent care centres close in the evening, hospitals are the only place to go until the morning. In hospitals, triage nurses, which are in every first world country, assess people based on symptoms in respect to how emergent their situation is and that is the determining factor as to how long they wait. 

 

The Canadian system isn't perfect at all, but if I compare it to the US system, I FAR prefer the Canadian system.

 

Example sources of information to look at:

Average estimated wait times per state (in the URL box, change the last letters to the state abbreviation of the state you wish to see

http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/waittimes/waittimes.aspx Alberta hospital wait times (live, and changing every few minutes - note that those the triage nurses assess lower priority tend to be more akin to the wait time listed, whereas those triage deems higher priority will be far less).

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here is an accurate comparison chart given Canadian system vs. estimated US:  https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/5343032/Medical Spending Differences in the U.S. and Canada.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- The biggest savings of the Canadian system is clearly on administration, which in regards to the US system, comes directly from the cost markup associated with the insurance industry.

 

- As a fiscal conservative, I sure as hell love the cost savings of the Canadian system, and that resources can be minimized and horizontally allocated appropriately (horizontal integration being proven more efficient in the business world).

- As a social liberal, I love that everyone can get essential care without concern for out of pocket expenses, or money issues preventing getting treatment. People are more apt to treat underlying preventative issues decreasing the cost and need of emergency care, increasing the overall health, productivity, and quality of life of citizens.

 

Like this example.  I think ERs and simple stuff is pretty good from a wait time standpoint, but God forbid you are an 18 year old needing a stem cell treatment to actually stay alive. 

 

https://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2016/04/23/plea-from-dying-teen-please-help.html

 

Also, specialist wait times in Canada have increased to their largest values in 2016.

 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/healthcare-wait-times-hit-20-weeks-in-2016-report-1.3171718

 

I am not saying that HC in Canada is good or bad, just that it is really different to apply this type of system to the US.  Personally, I like to think of this in a business sense, generally in business, we are very much against monopolies, but for some reason we will accept them in the health care business.

[IAMX 3,055]

 

Like this example.  I think ERs and simple stuff is pretty good from a wait time standpoint, but God forbid you are an 18 year old needing a stem cell treatment to actually stay alive. 

 

https://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2016/04/23/plea-from-dying-teen-please-help.html

 

Also, specialist wait times in Canada have increased to their largest values in 2016.

 

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/healthcare-wait-times-hit-20-weeks-in-2016-report-1.3171718

 

I am not saying that HC in Canada is good or bad, just that it is really different to apply this type of system to the US.  Personally, I like to think of this in a business sense, generally in business, we are very much against monopolies, but for some reason we will accept them in the health care business.

I think what you mention has to do with provincial allocations. Sometimes what the provinces do makes little sense.

 

Take for example Brampton, Ontario. They have one single hospital (as in, comprehensive for all necessary medical situations), Brampton Civic (aka William Osler Health System). For a town that is going to be nearing 1 million people, soon, I don't find 1 single hospital, which is where everyone has to go when the countless clinics/urgent care facilities close (since urgent care and clinics are not 24/7), to be reasonable.. at least 2 more major hospitals are reasonable. This situation dramatically spikes wait times. 

 

This is an area where improvement can certainly be made. 

 

I see exactly where you are coming from, which is why I don't advocate "universal" in the US as the only option. However, what options are available to me seem rather limited. Since it's clear prices cannot be controlled under the insurance industry's existence, to me there's really only two choices left.. universal, or completely gutting the insurance industry going back to direct negotiation with health providers. The administrative process of the latter, and how to deal with health coverage, is something that evades me though, since this method was done before I was alive. But I mean, anyone who has ever been without insurance at one time or another and directly negotiated with providers of care should notice right away that the cost of that care dramatically drops. I think either situation is reasonable.

Edited May 5, 2017 by IAMX

[Umka36 781]

I guess the next thing President Trump can say is that Australia has a better immigration policy?