No race option for brown skinned latinos

[bmackin 0]

So there is no "other" option for race and basically nothing that my husband can put.  He has dark skin from his indigenous ancenstors in El Salvador, he's definitely not white, but the only option for Native American is defined in the instructions as:  A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

 

And he doesn't have "tribal affiliation"  and I'm not sure what they mean by community attachment.

 

What should we put for race? I feel like we are lying whatever we put.  

[nightingalejules 678]

Probably the closest would be hispanic or latino... I think that's what they'd be expecting the answer would be for someone from El Salvador. I know it's not technically correct but it's the closest option.

[f f 725]

it is impossible to have every option available. think of it this way. they have a set box of crayons just pick the closest one.

[mindthegap 2,606]

2 hours ago, f f said:

it is impossible to have every option available. think of it this way. they have a set box of crayons just pick the closest one.

 

 

[Pinkrlion 2,724]

6 hours ago, bmackin said:

So there is no "other" option for race and basically nothing that my husband can put.  He has dark skin from his indigenous ancenstors in El Salvador, he's definitely not white, but the only option for Native American is defined in the instructions as:  A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

 

And he doesn't have "tribal affiliation"  and I'm not sure what they mean by community attachment.

 

What should we put for race? I feel like we are lying whatever we put.  

Wow...race is not a skin color.  Its an ethnic origin, so he selects latino.  

[Boiler 46,144]

Wikipedia

 

The U.S. government's Office of Management and Budget has defined Hispanic or Latino people as being those who "trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central, and South America (other than Guyana, French Guiana, and Suriname), and other Spanish cultures."[12] The United States Census uses the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino to refer to "a person of Dominican, Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."[13] The Census Bureau also explains that "[o]rigin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person’s ancestors before their arrival in the United States. People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race."[14]Hence the U.S. Census and the OMB are using the terms differently. The U.S. Census and the OMB use the terms in an interchangeable manner, where both terms are synonyms. The AP Stylebook's recommended usage of Latino in Latin America includes not only persons of Spanish-speaking ancestry, but also more generally includes persons "from — or whose ancestors were from — . . . Latin America, including Brazilians." However, in the recent past, the term "Latinos" was also applied to people from the Caribbean region, including those from former Dutch and British colonies.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Boiler

[bmackin 0]

8 hours ago, Pinkrlion said:

Wow...race is not a skin color.  Its an ethnic origin, so he selects latino.  

That was rude.   The US government does not define it that way, nor most people if you look at the Wikipedia definition of Latino posted by boiler.   There are two categories.  One is ethnicity in which yout have to select either Latino or non Latino.  Then the other is race.  You have to then select from the options I stated for race.  There is no "Latino" option for race. Unless you are suggesting that I leave the race question blank.  

Every single Latino I know struggles with the race  question on US census docs. Obviously they put Latino for ethnicity but then when it asks race some who are very light skinned put white, others put "other" but that is not an option in this doc.  

Edited May 2, 2017 by bmackin

[bmackin 0]

15 hours ago, nightingalejules said:

Probably the closest would be hispanic or latino... I think that's what they'd be expecting the answer would be for someone from El Salvador. I know it's not technically correct but it's the closest option.

That is ethicity which they have separate from race.  

[Estibaliz 3,037]

I hope you can figure it out somehow. I guess you don't think white is an option, since he's not really black or any of the other options? 

 

Honestly, I don't even know why they think it's necessary to make that question. I myself am from Spain, so I guess I should say I'm Hispanic, but that's not how we understand the term, since we use Latino and Hispanic for South American people. Pretty confusing, just because of that need of labelling people.

[Randyandyuni 2,682]

it's not just limited to Latinos, my wife is a light skinned Filipina with a Spanish family name, but does not identify with Latino, nor is she a pacific islander and not really Asian because of the Spanish influence in her ancestry she chooses Asian based on where she is from, not who she identifies with

[andy78 178]

The form says "Select all applicable boxes".

 

According to Wikipedia:

"El Salvador's population numbers 6,377,358. Ethnically, 86.3% of Salvadorans are mixed (mixed Indigenous Native American and European Spanish origin). Another 12.7% is of pure European descent, other 0.23% are pure indigenous descent, 0.13% black people and others 0.64%".

 

Your husband may be "mixed". My guess is that your husband should check both "White" and "American Indian", if your husband's ancestors are both "White" and "American Indian". He may not have a "Tribal Affiliation" but he may be part of the general "community".

 

There is no "Native American" option.

 

 

[USC1961 251]

2 hours ago, Estibaliz said:

I hope you can figure it out somehow. I guess you don't think white is an option, since he's not really black or any of the other options? 

 

Honestly, I don't even know why they think it's necessary to make that question. I myself am from Spain, so I guess I should say I'm Hispanic, but that's not how we understand the term, since we use Latino and Hispanic for South American people. Pretty confusing, just because of that need of labelling people.

The government asks these questions for a few reasons.  First off for pure statistical purposes.  Second in some cases it helps identify the applicant.  Lastly it's to ensure that they aren't discriminating against one group or another.  Those are perhaps the main reasons.  But indeed, the question is difficult for many to answer 100%.  So you just choose the best option.    

 

Case in point I'm in almost the same exact boat you are.  Since I have great grandparents from Spain, I could tick the box for Hispanic.  The thing is I'm white from European descent so no one would believe me.  The stereotype in America is If you aren't browned skin and wear a sombrero,  you couldn't possibly be from Spanish descent.  So it's easier just to mark white.  Even though it doesn't fully answer questions about my ethnicity (Catalan, English and Irish), it does correctly identify me.

 

In the end I don't believe this question is used as a lie detector as some of the other questions are.  Nor do I think an adjudicator or a CO is going to spend more than a second or 2 on this question.  To the OP:  If I were in your shoes just mark Latino.  It may not be the perfect answer from your perspective, but that is the word that would be used to describe anyone from El Salvador in the USA.      

Edited May 2, 2017 by Cruise77

[Pennycat 880]

The US government considers Hispanic/Latino ancestry to be ethnicity not race which makes sense really because anyone can be of Spanish/Portuguese descent and be of any race because of the particular history of the western hemisphere (to put it nicely). Spanish are Europeans and if we're going to use "white" as a shorthand for "European", then even with brown skin, the answer is "white" (or mixed if he prefers to consider it that way). 

 

A lot of countries count this differently. Costa Rica, for example, reports the white and mestizo (the mix of European and Amerindian that Americans typically picture  when they think of "Latino") as one group but counts them separately (somehow and for some reason). The answer for this seems to be "white, of Hispanic ethnicity". 

[Pennycat 880]

18 minutes ago, Cruise77 said:

 

Case in point I'm in almost the same exact boat you are.  Since I have great grandparents from Spain, I could tick the box for Hispanic.  The thing is I'm white from European descent so no one would believe me.  The stereotype in America is If you aren't browned skin and wear a sombrero,  you couldn't possibly be from Spanish descent.  So it's easier just to mark white.  Even though it doesn't fully answer questions about my ethnicity (Catalan, English and Irish), it does correctly identify me.

 

 

There are some some white Hispanic actors who push against this whenever they get the chance. Alexis Bledel and James Rodey pop to mind immediately. The thing is that (I think) it's also a cultural question as well. So while you can trace your ancestry there, does your story/ personal identification fit the question?

 

I'm sure I could trace part of my ancestry to Spain as well. I'm basically all Irish (save one outlier Scot, which is where my  red hair comes from), but my dad is so called "black Irish"-- western coastal people who are believed to have mixed with Iberian people due to trading routes, resulting in dark hair and dark(er) skin. Another big clue is that my last name is common in both Ireland and Spain (fun fact: this factored into why my husband took my name, not vice versa). I'm not who they're asking about. My husband definitely is and people like Bledel and Rodey (Rodriguez, actually, they made him change it) probably are as well. They grew up speaking Spanish and are while they far removed from the Spanish immigration (conquest) of this hemisphere but are still close to the immigration to the US from Latin America and they consider themselves Hispanic and are likely as far removed from Spain as I am. Confusing!

 

Edited to clarify:

The Census says "[Hispanic] Origin can be view as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States." So if you DO identify with your Spanish ancestors, you are who they're asking about. I do not, so I am not.

Edited May 2, 2017 by CatherineA

[WandY 430]

1. The government doesn't care what you pick. 2.Don't get hung up on these kind of issues - life and immigration is much tougher than this. 3. Don't use Wikipedia as a source.