Today's interview: neither YES nor NO

[semga 0]

My fiancee walked out from the Embassy in Moscow about 1 hour ago, where she had very strange interview. She was told at the end, they will think whether to give her visa or not. The thinking process will last between 2 to 3 weeks.

Not sure about sequence of questions, but these are some of those she was asked:

1. She was asked (with raised voice) whether she knows that I filed two petitions for Russian fiancees before (ah, shame on me: I should have gotten married two times and leave a dosen children behind before even emigrating to US). She said, yes she knows because I told her a while ago, and she has no problems with this. {interesting: she was not asked why Russian guy is so persistent in his desire to marry Russian woman:-) }

2. Another question: why she wants to marry me. I hope she answered well )

3. How many times I was in Russia meeting her? She said: three times: July, August, November, and we spent 10 Christmass days in Europe together. Apparently, this is not enough, in interviewer's eyes. She (interviewer) was not interesed in seeing our photos together (about 20 from all these visits).

4. My fiancee was asked where is her daughter's father. She said they broke up before her daughter was born (which is true) and she does not know where he or any of his family members are. He is not interested in his daughter. Interviewer asked her daughter HOW MANY TIMES she had contacts with her father. 8 years old answered: No, SHE HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM OR HEARD FROM HIM. My fiancee has shown daughter's birth certificate with both her and that man's name on it (8 years ago, she was advised by employee of the Social Security office СОБЕС to put man's real name there. Sometimes women do not put any name in "father" space there). She has also shown Russian internal passport with no marriage stamp in it. (For those who does not know: Russians have internal passports and fact of being married or divorced is stated there, in addition to having mariage certificate or divorce decree). She also produced a SPRAVKA (information letter) from СОБЕС that she is single mother (this status makes one eligible for "help" for kid from government - about $8/month). This did not impress interviewer either: she said she DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS AND HEARING FIRST TIME ABOUT SUCH STATUS. She said my fiancee SHOULD CONTACT DAUGHTER'S FATHER !!!

5. Interviewer asked girl if she knows my name. Girl proudly said my name and smiled. She smiles all the time. Among those 20 photos, there were 3 photos of girl and me together (she was hugging me) made in November, but I am not sure interviewer was interested.

6. My fiancee was asked whether she has relatives in USA. Answer was NO.

7. She was asked if she ever been in USA. Answer was NO.

My fiancee said three other girls were refused K visas on the spot. This is all I know at this moment.

I was 100% sure interview is going to be just a formality and visa will be issued as we had many meetings since July and have been talking on the phone every day (40 pages of phone records) for last 7 months.

[payxibka 10,045]

A couple of quick questions...

Did they retain her passport or did she leave with it in her possession?

Did you have notarized document from the father providing permission for the child to leave Russia?

[JamesT 12]

Wow, that's terrible Segma, I hope they do their "thinking" quickly and this gets resolved. Are you going to call the Embassy to see if they will tell you more about what happened?

Did you have your previous two K-1 petitions listed on your I-129F application? What happened with those? Were they approved or denied?

I have only been to Russia once to visit my fiancee, but that has nothing to do with how much I love her or my intent to marry her! It's simply a matter of economics - it's too expensive for me to travel there to visit her, and I can't take the time off from work. I hope the interviewer doesn't look at this as a negative.

I guess the situation with your fiancee's daughter could be a problem. I don't know much about that, or how strict they are about getting the father's written permission before the child will be allowed to leave Russia.

Good luck to you. Please let us know how it works out.

James

[Turboguy 6]

Wow, that really is both a shocker and it really sucks. With my first fiancee I thought it was bad enough when I came out with a 221-G and had to work my tail off to get it approved.

It sounds to me like you had everything to prove a relationship beyond what they customarily see. I can't say it really makes sense.

I think I am also a lot more concerned with my own situation than I was before reading your post. In my case it is my second and also the second for my fiancee. If we ever make it to the interview stage I will likely have far less proof than you did. I am heading to Russia tomorrow but that will only be my second visit to her there. We had additonal time together in Egypt and Thailand but as of today only one visit to Russia.

Did she miss any questions? My first fiancee missed two which lead to the 221-G.

Well hopefully they will come to their senses and issue the visa.

[Turboguy 6]

One thing I would recommend is to get in touch with your congressman's office or senators office right away. They can help!

[dmhweb 0]

...

4. My fiancee was asked where is her daughter's father.

...

If possible get that letter from the father. It sounds like this is the trouble to me. I wouldn't recomend forging such a letter but I'm sure it's not beyond the realm of possiblity.

It also could have been just a bad day for interviews... they can run that way sometimes... things go very smoothly for months and then there seems to be a random crackdown on who gets a visa and that really sucks!

[slim 1,525]

It also could have been just a bad day for interviews... they can run that way sometimes... things go very smoothly for months and then there seems to be a random crackdown on who gets a visa and that really sucks!

It could've been "random visa denial day" at the embassy.

Good luck in getting it. Hopefully you'll be back on here in the next two weeks with a Visa Approved post. You have everything you need, and are complying with everything, so you should get the visa no problem.

[Turboguy 6]

Semga, I have been thinking about your post all day. Much of it is feeling some empathy for you, it is also being worried a bit more about my own after seeing what you have gone through. I'ts my second and we have a pretty good age difference.

I mentioned before contact your congressman.

I think if they wanted a letter from the child's father they would have given you a 221-G asking for it. I don't see that as the problem.

I think they are going to approve it but want to make you sweat a bit to make sure you are not back for a 4th K-1

I would also suggest sending an E-mail to the Embassy. Outline the proofs of relationship you have, profess your dying love and ask if there is any information you can provide that might help them in their decision.

As long as they did not give the passport back there is hope.

[semga 0]

Semga, I have been thinking about your post all day. Much of it is feeling some empathy for you, it is also being worried a bit more about my own after seeing what you have gone through. I'ts my second and we have a pretty good age difference.

I mentioned before contact your congressman.

I think if they wanted a letter from the child's father they would have given you a 221-G asking for it. I don't see that as the problem.

I think they are going to approve it but want to make you sweat a bit to make sure you are not back for a 4th K-1

I would also suggest sending an E-mail to the Embassy. Outline the proofs of relationship you have, profess your dying love and ask if there is any information you can provide that might help them in their decision.

As long as they did not give the passport back there is hope.

Turboguy,

Thank you for your words and thoughts.

I am going to take some actions if the situation does not resolve quickly. I just called the Embassy info line and explained the situation. Girl on the phone told me to call back tomorrow at same time and tell them I made an inquiry. May be, Consular Section will have an update, she said. If this does not produce anything positive, I am going to write to congressman.

I am still thinking, the visa will be approved in a shorter period of time, as there is no grounds to ask for someone's permission for a child one never lived with, did not want to give his name to, never was interested in, or supported. Also, there is no grounds in Russian law for asking for such permission in this situation. The law on entry and exit from Russia clearly states this. LAW on entry/exit form Russia (Chapter 20 and 21)

My fiancee called the Embassy about two weeks ago and asked this very question: what to bring to the interview to prove she is single mother and only she makes decisions about her daughter. She was told NOTHING IS NEEDED. Then she went further and asked would it make sence to bring that single mom SPRAVKA. The answer was THAT WOULD BE PERFECT. She also called Border Guard Service (pogranichniki) and they confirmed no extra documents are required, just usual stuff: passports, birth certificate, and visas.

As to K-1 #4, I told myself a year ago: no #4! :-)

Good luck with your trip. I think it does not really matter where you were meeting but more for how long and how often. Age difference: it is 14 years in our case. It seems if the situation with documents is plain and usual, the approval is quick [but we know it can be made looking nice]. If there is something out of what they consider standard, the flag is raised, no matter there is a real ground for it or not.

[semga 0]

A couple of quick questions...

Did they retain her passport or did she leave with it in her possession?

Did you have notarized document from the father providing permission for the child to leave Russia?

Yes, they retained both passpots and girl's Birth Certificate. This surpruses me as this is not a passport where they put visa, and not a US issued document. In addition, it cause problems outside of the Embassy like not being allowed into train as the train ticket was purchased on birth certificate (like here you need ID to buy a plane ticket). So, girl had no documents while on the streets of Moscow and if stoped by police they would have to... well, pay 300 rubles or so, in best case.

I wrote, no, she did not and could not have a document from the father as he is not around for last 8.5 years. And asking for this permission contradicts Russian law. And American law does not require such permission either, as this is outside of US jurisdiction. She does have a document (passport) saying she is not and have never been married. And she has shown a document from Social Security office stating she IS a single mother.

[semga 0]

Wow, that's terrible Segma, I hope they do their "thinking" quickly and this gets resolved. Are you going to call the Embassy to see if they will tell you more about what happened?

Did you have your previous two K-1 petitions listed on your I-129F application? What happened with those? Were they approved or denied?

I have only been to Russia once to visit my fiancee, but that has nothing to do with how much I love her or my intent to marry her! It's simply a matter of economics - it's too expensive for me to travel there to visit her, and I can't take the time off from work. I hope the interviewer doesn't look at this as a negative.

I guess the situation with your fiancee's daughter could be a problem. I don't know much about that, or how strict they are about getting the father's written permission before the child will be allowed to leave Russia.

Good luck to you. Please let us know how it works out.

James

Hi James,

I just called the embassy (please see my answer to Turboguy).

Sure, I submitted all necessary info about previous I-129F's on my recent I-129F and on my I-134. Otherwise, we would not be at the interview stage. Also, I told my fiancee as early as I could about those, and she does not have problem with my past. Both I-129F's were approved (in 1999 and 2005). First girl made it to US but it did not work, actually it started falling apart before her coming to US. She returned to Russia, did not overstay her visa, returned her I-94. Second one have not got a chance to go to the scheduled interview as I learned she has been having another romance in Ireland (it is called diversification).

Yes, damn economics... But meeting are needed. Not for interviewer. For both of you to learn better about each other and yourself (sorry for advice). Phone conversations are nice. When people live together their interests sometimes come into conflict, and that could be a moment of truth. Look, it is a bit easier for me as I am from there, but still we needed to learn ... The winter of (not so) cheap tickets is over :-( I wish you luck.

[Turboguy 6]

I wish you luck. I think it will all work out but I know first hand how frustrating it is when you have had such high hopes and complications occur.

I will keep this short. I have to finish packing and am heading for Russia in 4 hours. I hope there is good news soon. Yes, I hope your need for tickets is over before the tickets get too high. I think I will be helping the airlines to increase their profits for a while.

[payxibka 10,045]

Yes, they retained both passpots and girl's Birth Certificate. This surpruses me as this is not a passport where they put visa, and not a US issued document. In addition, it cause problems outside of the Embassy like not being allowed into train as the train ticket was purchased on birth certificate (like here you need ID to buy a plane ticket). So, girl had no documents while on the streets of Moscow and if stoped by police they would have to... well, pay 300 rubles or so, in best case.

I wrote, no, she did not and could not have a document from the father as he is not around for last 8.5 years. And asking for this permission contradicts Russian law. And American law does not require such permission either, as this is outside of US jurisdiction. She does have a document (passport) saying she is not and have never been married. And she has shown a document from Social Security office stating she IS a single mother.

1) Did she provide her internal passport or her international passport? What do you mean this is not where they put the visa and is not a US issued document? Where do you think they put the visa when issued?

2) I agree Russian law does not have any bearing on this

3) Procedure or required documents is not governed by any law. US consulate can establish any procedure or require any document they wish in order to issue a visa... If they require a particular document they can, plain and simple.... So in my estimation that any potential claim of "outside jurisdiction" you feel you may have will not stand up....

I hope this clears for you quickly....

[semga 0]

Yes, they retained both passpots and girl's Birth Certificate. This surpruses me as this is not a passport where they put visa, and not a US issued document. In addition, it cause problems outside of the Embassy like not being allowed into train as the train ticket was purchased on birth certificate (like here you need ID to buy a plane ticket). So, girl had no documents while on the streets of Moscow and if stoped by police they would have to... well, pay 300 rubles or so, in best case.

I wrote, no, she did not and could not have a document from the father as he is not around for last 8.5 years. And asking for this permission contradicts Russian law. And American law does not require such permission either, as this is outside of US jurisdiction. She does have a document (passport) saying she is not and have never been married. And she has shown a document from Social Security office stating she IS a single mother.

1) Did she provide her internal passport or her international passport? What do you mean this is not where they put the visa and is not a US issued document? Where do you think they put the visa when issued?

2) I agree Russian law does not have any bearing on this

3) Procedure or required documents is not governed by any law. US consulate can establish any procedure or require any document they wish in order to issue a visa... If they require a particular document they can, plain and simple.... So in my estimation that any potential claim of "outside jurisdiction" you feel you may have will not stand up....

I hope this clears for you quickly....

Sorry, I did not make it clear. Was too ...

1) Both international passports of my fiancee and her daughter were taken. This is where they put visas, I know. They do not put visa into birth certificate, I believe. And Birth Certificate is not a US document, it was issued in Russia.

3) They could take a copy (which was provided), not an original. They saw the original already, it was in interviewer's hands. Taking the original document and not giving her any letter about this could create problem outside of the embassy under some unfortunate circumstances, believe me.

I hope everything clears soon... Thanks again.

[semga 0]

Just an update, for completeness:

My fiancee and her daughter received package with visas in their passports, and sealed packets by DHL yesterday!!!